What if the dream became reality? What would you do?

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Posted By: John

All right lets put a twist on this. Since there seem to be so many here who feel strongly against taking advantage of people, shady auction house sales practices or simply have unforgiving consciences.

I’ll pose this scenario.

Lets face it we all dream about it; if you don’t…then you don’t collect baseball cards check your pulse.


It’s a beautiful Saturday afternoon you’ve spent the better part of the day with loved ones or by yourself scouring the local antique stores and flea markets. Upon exiting one local store your stop by a man in his late 40’s he explains he over heard you at a counter ask the clerk if anyone had baseball related items. He asks you if your are interested in baseball cards “early ones he says”. You say yes. You walk back to the trunk of his car and he opens a large box of cards.

Inside the box at a quick glance is mostly E107’s with a few T206’s all EX at the worst around 60+ cards. At quick glance you see E107’s of Plank, Wagner, Matty and Waddell. Easily 50-100k worth of cards.

The gentleman explains that he knows they have some value but no idea to the exact value. He continues to say that he is in need of $3000 dollars for personal reasons before the end of the month. He needs the money to pay moving expenses they have lost the house and unless they can come up with 40k they better prepare for the move which is around 3k. He asks if you would be interested in the box at 3k. He goes on to explain that this was his first stop he’s heading on his way to Chuckles Bros. Card Shop in town. He was told dealers pay less that’s why you got first shot.


Also you want the cards so if this box of cards isn’t your thing place what ever your dream is in the shoebox.

Time is running out here are your 4 options I will give you to choose from. You have $4k in the pocket and 27k in the savings account.

1.)Give him the 3k take the cards and run. Knowing that the baseball card dealer will more than likely do the same thing just moments from now.

2.)Give him the 4k in the pocket then give him a check for 27k wiping you savings account.27k you really dont want to spend and can't even really afford to wipe yourself out either. It’s not 40k but 9k short maybe he can work something out with the bank on Monday. Still getting a steal at 31k, and it makes you feel better. Even though you know the guy could more than likely use the 100+k that there worth.

3.)Explain to the gentleman the true value of the cards and that he can sell them (ebay) for much more hoping that he will cut you in on commission or at least give you a few cards for the nice gesture. (No Guarantees)

4.)Convince him to visit a major auction house with you knowing you may be able to get a finders fee out of the deal from the auction house. But also knowing you will never own any of the cards in the box. They will be on the block.

So what are you going to do, what would you do if this dream we all dream about happened. I also wonder how many dealers and auction houses would deal with the situation, would we be impressed or find even more reasons to boycott them because of the choice they made with a similar situation.

Since I have been here I have had crazy offers from board visitors and members on cards I was selling, ridiculous trade offers for cards and so on. And I’m no little old lady with a box of cards, so try to be honest in your answers nobody here is up for the baseball card saint award.

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Posted By: identify7

There are few choices apparent, since the seller needs cash by month's end. When you need quick cash, your goods must be priced favorably, and $31K sounds right for all.

Or you could offer him the $4K and take a corresponding value in cards (corresponding to whatever you think); and advise him that the remainder should be sold at auction once he is set up in his new location.

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Posted By: Sean Coe

I am in the midst of a very similar situation right now. I have offered the person both options 3 and 4.

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Posted By: WP

Look at the box determine a conservative value, and offer the gentleman 75% of that value.

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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Give him $3,000 take the cards and run like hell, without looking back! THAT'S what I WOULD do!

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: Anson

Find out his Ebay username and determine how many of those $100 Planks and Wagners he's sold.

Seriously, I would probably offer to buy the best of the bunch and help him sell the rest on Ebay at a small percentage of the cut. (VAM dollars?)

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I would love to think that I would be great person in this situation and do the right thing - but let's be honest with ourselves. I'd take the cards for 3K and run as well. This may make me sound like a horrible person, but we are all looking for that great find, aren't we? Maybe I'm now blacklisted by some

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Posted By: John

Gil it does sound right but even as the buyer we both know the owner of the cards could easily get his 40k he needs if we were out of the picture. That’s the point of this question if we always do the right thing and its wrong to take advantage of people, and must be honest in our dealings then most all of us would have to walk away from a find like this. The fact that he needs the money fast is how we would justify that we basically still took advantage of the situation by paying him 31k vs. the real value of the items.

Many people in other threads said they wouldn’t in good conscience by certain items from auction houses or do business with certain dealers they felt had poor service. This scenario raises the question does the good conscience also apply here or is this something you would over look.

Wally that would be between 37-75k and you don’t have that in the scenario above.

I’m between option #1 and #2 but I might be like Adam and take #1 it might make me feel better to take #2 but I’m more than likely still taking advantage of the virtual guy but by less of an amount.

And don’t get excited there’s no guy this weekend that approached me with a box of E107’s this is all theoretical. Cause if there was I would have offered him $750.

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

My brain would choose option one, and give him the $4K and run, but I know I my conscience. I would honestly go with option #2. Empty the account knowing that I would make it up and then some. It's not the most noble of choices but you asked us what we would truly do. Does that make me a bad person? Maybe, maybe not, but I know I would have the ability to support my family, and invest some in my son's education fund.

The fact of the matter is, if you offer this guy $31K he is likely going to wonder about what the TRUE value is and get a second professional opinion (not from comic book store guy).

Bill
"The beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one more for dessert"

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Posted By: Richard LLOYD

With out question, buy the cards and run!!!
just keeping it real!!
best
Dick

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Posted By: Sean Coe

Being a hypothetical situation it may be easier for some to say they would give the 3K and run. I think if you actually met someone, saw the distress they were in and how desperate they were, it might be different. In my case the person is I believe, homeless. For about 30 seconds I thought about taking advantage of the situation. Heady stuff. Visions of buying a new car, completely remodeling my house, taking my wife on a great vacation. Then I realized that bottom line, dreams of luxury items be dammed, it would be wrong. I am no saint, and I'm not sure what's going to happen. This person doesn't trust anyone and is very hard to contact, so nothing may come of this.

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Posted By: Josh Krasner

Sean,

Do you mind letting us in on the type of cards you are talking about?

As for my answer, I would probably give the guy some nominal amount such as the 3k he is asking for.

I would then get them graded/authenticated to make sure he wasnt a scam artist. No way I give the guy all my savings w/o having the cards authenticated.

I would keep the few cards I couldnt live without and sell the rest. Then I consider sending the guy I bought them from the rest of the money he needs (assuming I made that much and more) and keeping the rest for me. Worst case scenerio is I dont make a huge profit, but I get an e107 hofer or two for nothing.

So, Adam M., you see all us lawyers arent the greedy bastards you make us out to be (yes, I am still a bit peeved about your other post).

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Here are the cold hard facts:

1) You will NEVER see this guy again... so you are taking a HUGE risk that the cards are: fake, trimmed, stolen, counterfeit, etc., and you will NEVER get to return them.
**This would make me very hesitant to purchase at all.

2) The guy KNOWS the cards have value AND needs money desperately... so isn't it LIKELY that he already did SOME research to determine their value? **This would make me very suspicious and hesitant to purchase for anything more than a low price.

3) As much as we like to think the cards have "value", to this guy and to the mortgage holder, they are WORTHLESS pieces of cardboard. If you do NOT purchase them and it rains on his box and they get soaked, or his cat pees all over them, then this guy will lose $3,000 and his house. **This would make me want to HELP the guy by giving him $3,000 for some cardboard that really has no use to him or his bank.

4) The SELLER named the price, not me. It's not like he asked me: "Do you know anything about these; how much are they worth?" He could have said he would sell them for $10,000... but HE decided on the $3,000 price, not me. **How is this any different than finding a deal on Ebay every day?

5) There is a 90% chance that they guy is LYING his butt off about needing money. Do you really think the panhandlers on the street corner need money for food and shelter -- or do they blow it on booze? **Therefore, giving this guy $3,000 may not be any different than giving him $30,000...it may all be gone up in smoke next week anyway.


Based on all of this, I would select Option #1.


**(The answer would be MUCH different if this was someone who I KNEW and TRUSTED, and someone who came SPECIFICALLY to me for an expert opinion and help... but that is NOT what happened in this case.)

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Posted By: John

Good points Hal, and just for the record all of the cards are feline urine free in this scenario, next week I have a guy who has a NRMT 1952 Topps set where all the high number cards smell like old cheese.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I am surprised that RATS like Alan Hager or Braodway Rick haven't already sniffed out any cards that smell like cheese.

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I consider myself a pretty honest guy, but I think he reality of the matter is that I would give the guy everything I had in my pocket, and take the cards. I agree with Hal in this situation, HE named the price, not me. He would probably be ecstatic to get 4K instead of the 3K he was looking for. And I also agree, that if you tell the guy, "I want to pay you $30K instead", he would probably get pretty suspicious, and you could end up with nothing. For all we know the guy could have bought them off an old lady an hour earlier for $300, and is looking to make a tidy profit.

True life scenario... About a year ago I was at a show and a dealer (which had pretty moderate to high prices), had a stack of oddball cards, upon looking through them, I found a very rare card with a value over $1500. I asked the guy how much he wanted for the item, and he looked at it for a while, and said $125. I bought that card, and even purchased some of his other stuff that was probably a little overpriced beacause I knew I was getting a steal from the guy, I guess that was my way of saying thanks. But was I wrong in doing this? I personally don't think I did. It isn't my fault the guy didn't realize what he had, and he was a card dealer, and probably should have known better. Was I under some obligation to tell the dealer exactly what he had, and then help him consign it to an auction house?

I'm just playing devils advocate here, but it is much easier to say "I would do the right thing" if the situation is completely hypothetical. I do like the suggestion of finding the guy later and giving him something else, after all's said and done. But that is assuming you can ever find the guy again.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Sean Coe

Josh,

The cards I have seen would not be of interest to most on this board, with the exception of some very nice 1939 Playballs including Williams. Mostly EX+ condition 1950's-early 60's Topps with many HOFers, some early 1970's Football and Basketball plus some Wrestling Exhibit? cards that look like they date from the 1950's or 60's. There are a supposedly a couple of albums I haven't seen yet that contain older material, but don't have a clue what they contain.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Not a bad idea, Rhett.

I might very well ask the man for his name and address if he was willing to provide them.

This would enable me to send him something extra later if and when the cards all get graded and pass the "authenticity" test.

AND... if the guy is NOT willing to provide his name and address...

then he is clearly hiding something or lying about something, and does NOT deserve anything more than his asking price.

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Posted By: John

He’ll be living next to Sean’s homeless guy Hal because he lost his house and you took his E107’s.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

But he will still have his cat with the incontinence problem.

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Posted By: John

LOL

Always look on the bright side of things huh Hal?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I would definitely be torn, but I think my conscience would win out and I would opt for 3 or 4. I have a regular customer at my video store who knows that I like baseball and he had told me for years that he kept all his baseball cards from when he was a kid in a shoebox that he still had somewhere. I never really pressed him about it because a lot of people tell me they still have this or that and they never show me. Well about three months ago this guy came into the store with a shoebox filled with 1957-60 Topps cards that were in MINT condition. He told me that he would open a pack and put them straight in the box after he looked at them and that was that. When he went off to Viet Nam his mom didn't touch his room so she never threw any of his stuff out. He got back, got married and took his cards with him and they've been in storage ever since. I asked him what he wanted to do with them and he said he would sell them for the right price. I showed him what PSA 9 commons from 57-60 go for on Ebay and he was truly shocked. I showed him the PSA website and he went home and signed up for a PSA membership. He is getting them ready to send off to PSA as soon as his daughter gets married and then he's going to have me ebay them for him.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I'd pay him what he wants and take all the cards. Frankly, it is a no-brainer given the arms-length sale scenario proposed. I wouldn't feel bad about it because he named the price and if I reject the deal he is going to sell for what he can get right then and there regardless of whether you buy them or someone else buys them. Hal is also right about your taking the risk that the cards are genuine, unaltered, not stolen, etc. This guy is never going to return your money if the carsd are bad.

The issue at the heart of the hypothetical is whether superior knowledge has to be shared. My superior knowledge is not something that I have to gratuitously offer to a person in an arms-length transaction as described. Now, if I was asked not to buy the cards but to consult as to the value or best way to market the cards, I would be under a duty not to mislead if I agreed to undertake that responsibility to the seller. Several years ago I was approached by a person selling a bunch of very high grade 1950s cards. He had a Beckett and wanted 50% of the high column (near mint prices). One look at the cards and I knew that many of them were nm-mt or even better (in fact, all of the cards I ended up buying were slabbed by PSA--at the time the only game in town-- with most getting 8s and 9s, and a few hitting only 7s) so 50% of high Beckett was a hell of a deal, especially if I could cherry pick, which he was willing to let me do. Now, was I supposed to use my expertise to grade the cards for him and in effect bid against myself? For all you know the seller in the hypothetical has already reviewed a price guide and decided on a price.

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Posted By: Alan

I agree with Sean Coe. You might not do option # 1 if there are other issues.....

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think Hal summed it best

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Glen V

Seems like a lot of people feel that it is "Seller beware". Its fine to take advantage of a seller if they don't have enough knowledge of what they have. Yet when a seller takes advantage of a buyer, people get outraged. Look at the number of posts on this board about sellers not disclosing enough information. Should they have to, or should the buyers have to ask the right questions? It seems like lots of people think its ok to hose someone else to get a hell of a deal, but if someone tries to make a little more than they should on their cards, that person is scum and should be blacklisted from the hobby.

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Posted By: Julie

or possibly I'm misjudging myself, and I'd Do the Right Thing.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Some people want to scream about Lew Lipsett not giving a refund on a card that he DISCLOSED as being "short"...

but yet you would pay FULL PRICE to a COMPLETE STRANGER for UNGRADED cards with NO WAY of ever getting a refund???

Crazy.

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Posted By: Jay Wolt

I wonder how many of us would say one thing and do another.
Its noble that we would give the man 10 times his $3000 asking price but really who knows what we would do when push comes to shove. Like Hal, I would certainly mistrust a guy selling Wagners & Plank's out of his car trunk. It could be either the find of the century or the scam of the century.
With this in mind, I would offer to be his partner and have them consigned to me after a legit 3rd party grader slabs them. This way we both would make more $$$ once they were deemed legit...jay

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Posted By: barrysloate

Just the notion that you are buying these out of the trunk of his car puts a whole different slant on this. What if the same man asked you to come to his house and he showed you the cards while you were sitting in his living room. He then said he would take $3000 for them, but asked you if you thought there might be a better way to dispose of them (even quickly if necessary). Then I think anybody with a conscience would have to suggest there is a better way, and you could still walk away with a tidy profit and do the man right. It's the thought of buying them out of his trunk that sullies the whole experience. Trunks are for spare tires and dead bodies, not E107's, if you get my drift.

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Posted By: John

Barry don’t you ever say sullies to me again! That’s pure poppycock!

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Posted By: tbob

Knowing almost squat about E107s, I would pass on the whole scenario. Now if they were M116s or T207s or E94s or E98s, that would be a different ballgame.

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Posted By: barrysloate

"Sullies" is a great word, as in "this too too sullied flesh..." Try to use it at least once a day (or at least once a decade).

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Posted By: jay behrens

"tutu sullied flesh", is that something someone forced to perform in a ballet would say?

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Bob C

-Option 1
-Sell them
-Give all the money to the Sisters of the Poor.

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Posted By: Kieran

Personally, I would give him a little extra so that the guy feels good about selling the cards. Other than that it is not my fault if someone wants to sell me valuable items at a fraction of the cost.

Of course I would make sure to have my CSI team on hand to verify they are real.

"I have had balls thrown at me my whole life. When I turned 30 I started to really hate balls - I didnt like the smell, feel or taste!"

Yogi Berra - 1975

"I have had balls thrown at me my whole life. When I turned 30 I started to really hate balls - I didnt like the smell, feel or taste!"

Yogi Berra - 1975

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good one Jay- how about "Desmond Tutu sullied flesh" Actually, the real line is "too solid flesh" but "sullied flesh" sounds cooler.

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Posted By: Julie

means defiled, and is what it says in my modern Shakespeare.

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Posted By: Dan

Hal, you are dead on right about this one. Option number 1 is the only way based upon all that you said. See, I actually did agree with an attorney, does this mean that I am reformed in my way of thinking?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Julie. My days of graduate school are too far away, and the memory isn't what it used to be.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Yes, Lieutenant Dan... you are starting to wise up.