Sgc

[aloondilana]

My magic question to all of you is why doesn't this hobby as a whole give SGC the respect it deserves as far as card values are concerned?

I've had the opportunity to meet and have several conversations with Dave Forman, what a top notch guy and what knowledge he possesses in this hobby.

Now I will state for the record I went to SGC to have cards graded after I cracked from a PSA holder. Unfortunately for me I did not receive higher grades and in one case I received a lower grade than PSA gave the card.
I can guarantee that SGC grades cards much more conservatively than PSA, but leaves me scratching my head as to why PSA is always getting 30% more for same grade.

This just isn't fair. I'd take an SGC card any day.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

My magic question to all of you is why doesn't this hobby as a whole give SGC the respect it deserves as far as card values are concerned?

I've had the opportunity to meet and have several conversations with Dave Forman, what a top notch guy and what knowledge he possesses in this hobby.

Now I will state for the record I went to SGC to have cards graded after I cracked from a PSA holder. Unfortunately for me I did not receive higher grades and in one case I received a lower grade than PSA gave the card.
I can guarantee that SGC grades cards much more conservatively than PSA, but leaves me scratching my head as to why PSA is always getting 30% more for sale grade.

This just isn't fair. I'd take an SGC card any day.

Agreed. Unfortunately it is like this with everything in life. Marketing and Branding make up for most of that bump you see.

I just hope it continues as long as I'm buying SGC graded vintage.

[aloondilana]

I agree, marketing is key and PSA is the 800 pound gorilla.
But I guarantee you PSA does not give the service SGC does.
I just think it's such a shame that this hobby holds PSA to a pedestal and their cards get more money. It makes no sense at all to me.

I may do a study and crack 10 Psa cards and send to SGC

then send 10 SGC cards and send to PSA

I'm willing to take action on the fact that SGC comes out more conservative.

[VintageBen]

I like the SGC holder... the black background really makes most cards "pop"

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I agree, marketing is key and PSA is the 800 pound gorilla.
But I guarantee you PSA does not give the service SGC does.
I just think it's such a shame that this hobby thinks of PSA cards get more money. It makes no sense at all to me.

I may do a study and crack 10 Psa cards and send to SGC

then send 10 SGC cards and send to PSA

I'm willing to take action on the fact that SGC comes out more conservative.

That would be great. I personally find I have more luck with SGC. PSA has been crippling me lately.

[aloondilana]

I realize the registry is monsterous for PSA. But damn, is it that much that it is the reason they get 30-40% more?

[slidekellyslide]

The PSA set registry is the main reason their cards go higher. That's where the major competitors in the slab number game have assembled to compete for the "best" sets.

[nsaddict]

The answer to the question is the REGISTRY period!

[aloondilana]

I do agree it's the registry 100%
But outside registry, when the actual grading is concerned, why not just buy SGC cards and just have them crossed to make an easy 30%?

[pcoz]

I dont see any difference in price on high end prewar or most prewar between SGC vs PSA, only on postwar due to the registry. I prefer SGC personally, but both are top notch. The floating card inside of a PSA holder is my biggest hobby pet peeve.

[BeanTown]

Agreed it's the REGISTRY which makes PSA holders treated like a commodity. Thus the term buy the card, and not the holder is coined. Recently I met a die hard PSA member. He was explaining to me about their different membership levels and what you get for each level. Most Every time he gets a card in a non PSA holder or he gets a grade he feels isn't fair, he cracks it out and he resubmits it.

I asked him how many times he has done this. He said it's in the thousands and I asked him how many he did this month and he said around 200. He went on to explain how PSA used to be real easy to crack, but they have improved their holders now which makes him use his band saw in the basement. SGC are simple to crack as two quick pops on each top corner normally does the trick.

The population numbers within a couple of years will almost be impossible to trust, if not even now.

As a collector, I still have tons of cards I bought back in the 90s and early 2000s which are raw. This was before TPGs even had a holder big enough to grade larger cards like Postcards and Cabinets. If/when I decide to sell, I will most likely use whatever TPG has the best reputation and give me a chance to fetch the best final price.

Right now PSA is king of the TPGs. We are paying for their "opinion" on the grade of cardboard they say it is. It doesn't matter if SGC has better holders, better graders, a better owner, etc.... I would love to see SGC become the new industry Giant for grading. To do this they would have to have PSA self destruct which I don't see happening and SGC would really have to come up with an innovative registry system which would become the new norm.

(Hi John glad to see you posting)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I do agree it's the registry 100%
But outside registry, when the actual grading is concerned, why not just buy SGC cards and just have them crossed to make an easy 30%?

The cards just dont cross over that easily plus grading fees. If I buy a SGC 7 card, i want to pay a PSA 6- 6.5 price so i am prepared to get a PSA 6 if i cross it over but that doesnt save me 30% when i go a resell that PSA 6 card that once was a SGC7. Yes you never know what the grade will be on the crossover but its a gamble that would eat up that 30% in the long run if you are just worried about making an easy 30%

With that being said, i do think that more people prefer and pay more for SGC card ratio wise in the net54 community than the general population ratio on ebay...

[BeanTown]

One common thought I hear from people who flip cards from SGC to PSA is to break it out ahead of time. If PSA knows they are regrading an SGC card it gets hammered about 95 percent of the time.

[ngnichols]

People who are buying PSA cards are either set builders or are just flat out sheep who don't realize their overpaying for lesser standards of grading.

The reason they draw a premium is for several reasons, none of which matter to me as long as the grade is accurate, standards are high, and consistency is there:

1. Publicly traded company on NASDAQ so more transparency in what the companies operations are. (Beckett and SGC are not)

2. American owned. (Beckett is not. SGC is as far as I know).

3. Coin Grading. (Shouldn't have anything to do with cards and their values, but apparently to some people it does.)

4. Set Registry. (Again, shouldn't matter unless you're a baseball card nerd, but apparently it does.)

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by pcoz

I dont see any difference in price on high end prewar or most prewar between SGC vs PSA, only on postwar due to the registry. I prefer SGC personally, but both are top notch. The floating card inside of a PSA holder is my biggest hobby pet peeve.

Pretty dramatic post war example.



https://sports.ha.com/itm/1948-leaf-...lotPosition=18

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...-mhcc-auction/

[BruceinGa]

Four or five years ago I read posts here that basically said value wise they were about the same, only that SGC presented better.
Now from what I'm reading here and seeing on eBay is that PSA 206's are more costly.
I'm happy with the SGC's that I have. Oh, except for the 1958 Hires SGC 96 that I have. He holder is too big and scratched up. It would be nice to cross that one over.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ngnichols

2. American owned. (Beckett is not. SGC is as far as I know).

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...sa-slab-5.html
Post #118 says that BGS is owned by an American citizen who lives in North Carolina. I know you read that thread because you got banned because of it. Why continue to spread rumors on a different message board?

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/b...sa-slab-5.html
Post #118 says that BGS is owned by an American citizen who lives in North Carolina. I know you read that thread because you got banned because of it. Why continue to spread rumors on a different message board?

This guy is making the calls as CEO and he's not in America:

https://in.linkedin.com/in/sandeepdua

He's part of Eli Global which owns Beckett Media. While the owner of Eli Global may own a residence in North Carolina and it may be based there to a degree, that doesn't make it an American company to the people voting with their dollars. Right or wrong, that guy being the CEO, running it the way they have, and it being private are big problems for people trust-wise.

He's also put their customer service 1/2 way across the world and has really tied the hands of those who work there. You cannot directly call someone at Beckett HQ and check on your order unless you know someone there and have their work extension, cell-phone #, or internal E-Mail address. You've got to speak to some jack-wagon over in India or the Philippines who you can't even understand or even really truly knows what's going on. That is also a HUGE problem for people, especially given the recent issues they've had. People are already super-pissed and don't want to have to run through those hoops.

Beckett Media is just a pawn for Eli Global to fund other businesses they have in their portfolio so they honestly don't really care about the hobby as a whole and that's the sad part. They could really turn things around with a few changes and better customer service.

In regards to Blowout, you can read the thread yourself and see what happened. You've got a mob-mentality there that's not interested in the truth. I saw a ton of people on there pissed about their orders and tried to help them get some answers directly instead of speaking to some guy named "Gupta" in India or wherever the hell else they may be. Not sweating it because it's obvious what kind of people are on there and how they handle facts vs. lies.

[Pjere]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Agreed it's the REGISTRY which makes PSA holders treated like a commodity. Thus the term buy the card, and not the holder is coined. Recently I met a die hard PSA member. He was explaining to me about their different membership levels and what you get for each level. Most Every time he gets a card in a non PSA holder or he gets a grade he feels isn't fair, he cracks it out and he resubmits it.

I asked him how many times he has done this. He said it's in the thousands and I asked him how many he did this month and he said around 200. He went on to explain how PSA used to be real easy to crack, but they have improved their holders now which makes him use his band saw in the basement. SGC are simple to crack as two quick pops on each top corner normally does the trick.

The population numbers within a couple of years will almost be impossible to trust, if not even now.

As a collector, I still have tons of cards I bought back in the 90s and early 2000s which are raw. This was before TPGs even had a holder big enough to grade larger cards like Postcards and Cabinets. If/when I decide to sell, I will most likely use whatever TPG has the best reputation and give me a chance to fetch the best final price.

Right now PSA is king of the TPGs. We are paying for their "opinion" on the grade of cardboard they say it is. It doesn't matter if SGC has better holders, better graders, a better owner, etc.... I would love to see SGC become the new industry Giant for grading. To do this they would have to have PSA self destruct which I don't see happening and SGC would really have to come up with an innovative registry system which would become the new norm.

(Hi John glad to see you posting)

Found this old thread somehow…unfortunately PSA self destructed and cards in their cases still bring the extra 30%. I really don’t understand what it will take for sgc to surpass them (or Beckett) but I sure wish they would! Let’s all exclusively buy SGC cards on ebay and shift this thing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rjackson44]

As long as there no csg holders horrible cant give them away garbage

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Pjere

Found this old thread somehow…unfortunately PSA self destructed and cards in their cases still bring the extra 30%. I really don’t understand what it will take for sgc to surpass them (or Beckett) but I sure wish they would! Let’s all exclusively buy SGC cards on ebay and shift this thing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't trust SGC any longer after several really bad idiotic decisions and each one they were proven wrong. I used to respect them but now I think they have their heads up their ass on many issues. And their owner has a great legacy. Last national I went to I asked where he was. They said he was grading cards. Fox watching the henhouse....I hope another grading company evolves as the ones we have aren't worth crap.

.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't trust SGC any longer after several really bad idiotic decisions and each one they were proven wrong. I used to respect them but now I think they have their heads up their ass on many issues. And their owner has a great legacy. Last national I went to I asked where he was. They said he was grading cards. Fox watching the henhouse....I hope another grading company evolves as the ones we have aren't worth crap.

.

I don't think anyone besides beckett will grade fro joys these days. While I agree it's lame noone grades these...I certainly dont see this as a strike against SGC any more than it is against PSA.

And yes...the options we currently have are shit! Don't hold your breath for that to change.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't think anyone besides beckett will grade fro joys these days. While I agree it's lame noone grades these...I certainly dont see this as a strike against SGC any more than it is against PSA.

And yes...the options we currently have are shit! Don't hold your breath for that to change.

They wouldn't grade my Yum Yum and it was perfectly good. They missed a really bad E94 overprint..They wouldn't grade my Babe Ruth Headin Home cards and the list goes on. I used to think they were good.

.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Leon

They wouldn't grade my Yum Yum and it was perfectly good. They missed a really bad E94 overprint..They wouldn't grade my Babe Ruth Headin Home cards and the list goes on. I used to think they were good.

.

Wow.

That sucks and our options shrink as we think they would expand with competition

[Oscar_Stanage]

1) The people driving the markets are not collectors. PSA cards are a deeper and more active market, so it is self-affirming feedback loop.

2) the registry. this really matters.

3) the general population of card buyers is not well-educated. Not a lot of research/effort is done. How many people understand that the grading scales have changed? not many. People pay the price of today's "4s" for any slab with a "4" on it not realizing the card would grade a 3 and maybe a 2 today. I see it everyday.

but yes. from a pure grading / quality standpoint there is no difference between PSA and SGC. I don't think any other grader is their league.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

They wouldn't grade my Yum Yum and it was perfectly good. They missed a really bad E94 overprint..They wouldn't grade my Babe Ruth Headin Home cards and the list goes on. I used to think they were good.

.

Eewwww!! I wouldnt grade your yum yum either!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

As long as there no csg holders horrible cant give them away garbage

I'm kind of shocked on Twitter some of the grading companies that get mentioned that I've never heard of. I'm glad someone is throwing them a bone to create a base user population, but I don't think I'd send them my cards. I saw a new one yesterday, and another one last week. When I see companies not-big-3 on ebay, and sellers asking prices, I think "is this a joke?" As another person stated within this thread, a lot of uneducated newbies in this hobby.

However, at least one of the companies is trying to use AI for grading and not people.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Eewwww!! I wouldnt grade your yum yum either!

LOL....then you are as smart as them. Two of the three grading companies graded it correctly. SGC first said it was counterfeit, then they gave it a NO....Such is life. It was real as the day is long. And whomever paid over 7k for it probably thought so too.

,

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't trust SGC any longer after several really bad idiotic decisions and each one they were proven wrong. I used to respect them but now I think they have their heads up their ass on many issues. And their owner has a great legacy. Last national I went to I asked where he was. They said he was grading cards. Fox watching the henhouse....I hope another grading company evolves as the ones we have aren't worth crap.

.

Hey Leon, here's a 1928 newspaper Ad I came across. From what I understand
the Ruth Fro-Joy's were distributed from August 6-11 in 1928 this ad ran just after
that on august 30 1928.

img839.jpg

img839 - Copy.jpg

img839 - Copy (2).jpg

[Tyruscobb]

I’m a baseball card collector; not an investor or flipper. My intended holding period is my life, so I never sell a card unless I upgrade it. I prefer SGC over PSA - grading, value (when purchasing a card), the flip, and overall presentation.

As a collector, I love that SGC cards are cheaper. It allows me to obtain more cards and/or higher graded cards with my collecting budget. For selfish reasons, I hope SGC never reaches par with PSA. I’ll gladly pay a discounted price for an SGC 5 v. a PSA 5 - all things considered, e.g. same centering, eye appeal, etc.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Leon

LOL....then you are as smart as them. Two of the three grading companies graded it correctly. SGC first said it was counterfeit, then they gave it a NO....Such is life. It was real as the day is long. And whomever paid over 7k for it probably thought so too.

,

Leon, I just picked up in the last LOTG auction a beautiful SGC5 Yum Yum and if this was the one you are referring to, then I think it is real, too.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

1) The people driving the markets are not collectors. PSA cards are a deeper and more active market, so it is self-affirming feedback loop.

2) the registry. this really matters.

3) the general population of card buyers is not well-educated. Not a lot of research/effort is done. How many people understand that the grading scales have changed? not many. People pay the price of today's "4s" for any slab with a "4" on it not realizing the card would grade a 3 and maybe a 2 today. I see it everyday.

but yes. from a pure grading / quality standpoint there is no difference between PSA and SGC. I don't think any other grader is their league.

I 100% agree with all of the above and as previously stated and often goes overlooked - PSA (love them or hate them) does an INCREDIBLE branding/marketing job! They tell everyone in every ad they publish (and they publish WAY more than SGC) that they are the market leader - See it enough times and......there was a time when if people needed a tissue they asked for a "Kleenex"! Kleenex was the brand that became synonymous with the product as a result of incredible branding/marketing. PSA has taken a page out of their playbook.

SGC has a real opportunity with the current PSA backlog situation as a LOT more cards are getting sold in major auctions in SGC holders. More people will have an opportunity to see the on par quality of grading (for better AND worse) between both companies.

Great opportunity for other players as well, but from what I've seen so far, none that are stepping up with the quality they need to.

[Casey2296]

PSA passes out grades for profit. SGC grades on a different level. Way tougher than PSA. I crossed 7 PSA to SGC with a min grade. Four came back no Sabe'.
SGC is actually the best grader in the hobby but everybody wants the barroom slut (PSA) that gives easy action.

[toledo_mudhen]

Recently back after 1 year at PSA -

Can you guess the grades?

Neither card has any creases or wrinkles - even under loupe





You got 2 numbers in your head? Then go ahead and scroll -
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Sent both of these in looking for 6 EXMT on them - So how in the hell do either of these happen?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Recently back after 1 year at PSA -

Can you guess the grades?

Sent both of these in looking for 6 EXMT on them - So how in the hell do either of these happen?

I was going to guess 4.5 & 7, but I'm looking at them on my cell phone. Seems at least ballpark to me.

[steve B]

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

That is awesome on so many levels.