1939 Ted Williams Play Ball PSA 8 rookie Heritage auctions

[Jdoggs]

The 1939 Ted Williams Play Ball PSA 8 rookie is at $21,510 currently in heritage auctions with a couple of days to go. I think this is the next card to explode upward in value as he is the greatest hitter of all time!

[begsu1013]

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[BBB]

I agree that Ted could go up. That being said, that series lacked some aesthetic appeal that sometimes helps launch a card into the stratosphere. At least that's my opinion .


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[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

agreed...I think Black and White issues are not as well liked.

[begsu1013]

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[pokerplyr80]

I think Goudey Ruth's are starting to rise and will continue to do so. 54 Aarons in an 8 have been hot. Still probably a good buy. I could see the 48 leaf Robinson and Paige really take off next, but the Paige might be too rare to do so, same with the 25 Gehrig. The others are probably right about black and white cards not being as popular but I like my Williams and think it and the Gehrig are under valued and appreciated.

[glynparson]

It has already exploded. A friend sold a psa 9 privately for around 250k after the national last year.

[MetsBaseball1973]

Watch what the next strong 1952 Bowman Mickey Mantle goes for. It will widen eyes. Lots of auctions this season and barely any of those on the market. That's where my money is. His RC and almost all Topps issues are still exploding and always lead any market charge. The 1952 Bowman is on deck and has been kind of a sleeper because of how few ever hit market over grade 5 I would say.

Nolan Ryan RC in the PSA 8 grade. The gap to the PSA 9 grade price is so large and the 8s will narrow it.

PSA 9 Brett RC is also heading to 5k and up in a year. The 10 in Heritage is almost 40k and has really ugly look to it.

Goudey Ruth yellow. Any grade.

Ted is a legend but his RC is not as well known or liked as his many other issues. It will rise with all other key cards but if I can buy just one card I am buying the Mantle over the Williams in grade 6 and higher.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I think Goudey Ruth's are starting to rise and will continue to do so. 54 Aarons in an 8 have been hot. Still probably a good buy. I could see the 48 leaf Robinson and Paige really take off next, but the Paige might be too rare to do so, same with the 25 Gehrig. The others are probably right about black and white cards not being as popular but I like my Williams and think it and the Gehrig are under valued and appreciated.

the Aaron 7s are also going up a ton ..in the 7000s now isnt uncommon for them

[Yoda]

If the '52 Bowman Mickey takes off, then high grade Willies are soon to follow and maybe the old race issue for the valuation of Mantle cards over Mays cards is beginning, or already has begun, to change.

[Iron Horse]

considering what the card is yes, it has room to move up in the mid grades. i think a little b&w in a colorful collection looks nice. Love the pose on the card as a young Ted. Love mine

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by Iron Horse

considering what the card is yes, it has room to move up in the mid grades. i think a little b&w in a colorful collection looks nice. Love the pose on the card as a young Ted. Love mine

Agree with you and I think the Ted Williams Play Ball rookie is undervalued.
Percentage wise the ted williams Play Ball rookie in PSA 8 could easily double or triple in value over the next year and match the 54 aaron PSA 8 in value or exceed it.

[begsu1013]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

again, the jordan rc sticker has doubled and tripled in mere months.

the aaron 8 has gone from $15 to the $45 mark in about 8 months.

How do you spell manipulation?

[begsu1013]

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[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

again, the jordan rc sticker has doubled and tripled in mere months.

the aaron 8 has gone from $15 to the $45 mark in about 8 months.

The non sticker 86 Fleer Jordan went from 20k to 30k in less than a month it seems, and was in the 10-15k range not long ago, maybe 12-18 months.

The 55 Clemente went from 30 to 60 in less than a year in PSA 8 and was at 15 less than 2 years ago.

If it's the same group manipulating alot of the cards that have been run up it would be nice to know what's next.

[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If it's the same group manipulating alot of the cards that have been run up it would be nice to know what's next.

What would be nicer is if it stopped. Price manipulation has massive repercussions to those who are not part of the group--which is 99.99999% of us. Everyone was up in arms over the isolated shill bidding at Mastro that they all claimed established new price points for those items shilled. This goes far beyond that.

[begsu1013]

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[Rookiemonster]

But who are these baseball card price manipulators? And how is anybody sure they exist?cant it just be the card market rising?

[begsu1013]

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[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

What would be nicer is if it stopped. Price manipulation has massive repercussions to those who are not part of the group--which is 99.99999% of us. Everyone was up in arms over the isolated shill bidding at Mastro that they all claimed established new price points for those items shilled. This goes far beyond that.

I've heard the rumors but it seems difficult to prove or stop. Assuming that is what's going on is it illegal to bid your friend's card up only to have him do the same for you later? I know of there are laws against manipulation of stock prices but I don't think the SEC would have much interest in the price of Jordan RCs.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

here ya go

I don't have to look to guess that PWCC and Probstein are probably the named perpetrators.

[MetsBaseball1973]

To think there's some cabal out there manipulating all these key cards is really silly. Does it happen here and there, sure.

Guys want prices low when they buy, and then cry or cry foul when prices rise on things they want. Not so much when prices rise on a card they own. Pretty funny.

There is stiff competition for beautiful cards, plain and simple.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I've heard the rumors but it seems difficult to prove or stop. Assuming that is what's going on is it illegal to bid your friend's card up only to have him do the same for you later? I know of there are laws against manipulation of stock prices but I don't think the SEC would have much interest in the price of Jordan RCs.

I hardly think the SEC is the only governmental body interested in fraud, if indeed that is what is happening here. There are at least two guys sitting in jail who could attest to that.

[begsu1013]

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[botn]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i absolutely hate agreeing w/ you, greg!

Not nearly as much as I hate knowing that.

[ullmandds]

definitely funny business going on there.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

no. thread lists several "buyers" not consignors.

while they did have some cards listed, these guys are buying/not paying on just about every one that comes up.

some serious leg work went into it if ya take the time to read...

I read through the thread. It's pretty scary to think a couple of guys can impact the market that much in such a short period of time. If the ebay auctions are not being paid for I would hope something would be done about it. Wouldn't ebay look into a 30k unpaid auction?

[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I've heard the rumors but it seems difficult to prove or stop. Assuming that is what's going on is it illegal to bid your friend's card up only to have him do the same for you later? I know of there are laws against manipulation of stock prices but I don't think the SEC would have much interest in the price of Jordan RCs.

Yes it is illegal to bid on your friends item in exchange for his bidding on yours. Bidding for any other purpose other than attempting to win the item, is shilling. Stopping it is an entirely other thing but with ebay being the middle man on much of this stuff, I would think the FBI would get more cooperation than they did with the Mastro case.

[begsu1013]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

definitely funny business going on there.

Just stiff competition for beautiful cards, no?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

did we just become best buds?

And Trump and Clinton are going to join together on a unity ticket.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

Yes it is illegal to bid on your friends item in exchange for his bidding on yours. Bidding for any other purpose other than attempting to win the item, is shilling. Stopping it is an entirely other thing but with ebay being the middle man on much of this stuff, I would think the FBI would get more cooperation than they did with the Mastro case.

Im not familiar with the laws and am just asking. But what if they are bidding to win the cards and pay for them. If it was proven that the same guys were bidling on and paying for each other's cards a few times driving the market price up, has a crime been committed?

[begsu1013]

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[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Im not familiar with the laws and am just asking. But what if they are bidding to win the cards and pay for them. If it was proven that the same guys were bidling on and paying for each other's cards a few times driving the market price up, has a crime been committed?

If it were only happening a few times with a few guys then it would likely not be noticed and it would not impact the market. That does not appear to be the case from my vantage point.

[Rookiemonster]

Thanks for the link Bob . Ok so the card shiller would have to be biding on every live auction and online auction. So if I listed a Jordan psa 10 on eBay right now the shiller bees will swarm all over it?

I was in a card shop about a year ago. And a guy walked in and asked the owner to bid on his cards for him. ( I was searching a dollar box and acted as if I was consumed by it) He said he didn't get the response he was hoping for. The owner said no problem when I get a chance. As the guy walked out he said " you know I'll look out for when you need it"

[Iron Horse]

Here's a theory,
We know for a fact that there is new money in the hobby. As stated by others some wealthy new collectors have come to cards possibly for investments or partly collecting.
This fact may have triggered those who are manipulating/shilling prices to increase their gains by these artificial prices that only so few can afford to pay.
I know of one collector who is wealthy and is paying these high end record setting prices for these key cards that you guys speak of. He seems to feel that the trend will continue and prices will rise further so it is ok to pay these record $$$ amounts and hold till prices increase further.
As they say if there is blood in the water sharks will come
Again, just a theory and i may be way off.
I know collecting for me has become more difficult as i refuse to pay these record setting prices which are now even affecting even low to mid grade level cards.
Guess just seat back and watch till the dust settles. Only question is how dusty is the situation and how long till it settles.
Enjoy collecting

[JeremyW]

I might be alone, but $30,000. for a single 1986 Fleer basketball card is not right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I might be alone, but $30,000. for a single 1986 Fleer basketball card is not right.

The price paid is for the flip not the card. Want proof? Crack out the card and see what it sells for. Or resubmit it 100 times and see how many times it gets a 10 again.

[begsu1013]

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[2dueces]

Wow thanks for the heads up on the Jordan stickers and rookie actually.
Back in 1993 my buddies and I were in Vegas and we played pack poker at $25 a pack for 1986 Fleer. I won 2 packs and pulled a Jordan rookie and sticker. 2 other Jordan rookies were pulled and kept. The rest of the cards and stickers weren't wanted so I took them all. All together I have 4 stickers.
Jordan rookie is a PSA 7 and the 2 stickers I graded are an 8 and a 9.
I hadn't looked at prices in years. Wow. Paid for my Vegas trip and then some.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The price paid is for the flip not the card. Want proof? Crack out the card and see what it sells for. Or resubmit it 100 times and see how many times it gets a 10 again.

and you can say that about any card graded 10 !

[begsu1013]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

clemente 6.5 for $12,300. simply crazy.

where

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

clemente 6.5 for $12,300. simply crazy.

How about the 8 at over 100k on Heritage?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

How about the 8 at over 100k on Heritage?

And a day to go. 121 8s FWIW.

[Jdoggs]

Ted Williams play ball rookie PSA 8 currently at $26,290 in heritage auctions!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

clemente 6.5 for $12,300. simply crazy.

good luck with that as a real sale..so many 6s and 7s in POP

[MetsBaseball1973]

So many, but how many centered? The sophist looks solely at POP reports.

[botn]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

good luck with that as a real sale..so many 6s and 7s in POP

Pop Report has very little relevance right now. Got to get with the times.