condition

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have been considering shifting my focus to lower condition cards which grade in the VG or VGEX range in order to speed up set building and cover more ground faster. I don't do this for the sake of investment, I just like collecting. I am starting to think I could be quite happy with lower condition cards and sets in binders. From reading posts here, it seems like quite a few of you guys do it this way. Thoughts?

[K-Nole]

Yes, this is what me and my son do.

It speeds up the set completion process.
We do it mostly for him, so condition does not matter, but to me personally, it matters not what condition. And we are just happy to comete them.

I say, go for it.

[mooch]

I started doing that, too. I got a bit fed up with paying so much for commons. So far, I am sticking to the plan, but there is always that pull to upgrade or to buy that slightly more expensive card.

[Exhibitman]

I made the switch a few years ago when I purchased a couple of shoebox collections and realized that I was enjoying the vg cards even more than the slabbed high grade cards I had because they were in an easy to view album and I didn't have to stress out about the cost and condition of them. I also realized that I can own cards I always wanted on my budget if I went for 'well loved' specimens. Now I go for presentable lesser grade stuff, especially like the cards that are really nice except for a crease or a tiny bit of writing

[jasonc]

That is how I collect. Plus it is easier to find cards,and like what is being said you can find some really nice cards that have a slight crease or a speck of paper loss, or a tiny bit of writing, etc.

If it's just for collection purposes and not investment, then it's probably a good way to go about it, plus you save money.

[almostdone]

I agree with all of the above statements. My advice is figure out what condition standards are most important to you, ie, sharp corners, writing, creasing, centering etc, and let go of what isn't. For example I cannot stand surface wear but centering is not a big deal to me as long as it is with about 75/ 25. I want to see a clean image and be able to read the backs but I have a good friend on the boards who is a centering fanatic but corner and edge wear don't bother him. Either way most of our collections would grade in the 2 to 4 range but they presen differently.
It all about what you enjoy. Set building and ownership over hunting for the more rare hi condition cards.
Drew

[darkhorse9]

I collect VG/EX for my collection because I enjoy completing sets and looking at them over and over again. I have no plans to ever sell the collection so the value doesn't matter to me.

When I die my son gets my collection. Since he doesn't collect he is instructed to sell the whole thing. Since he has no investment in it, every dollar he gets out of it is a bonus for him so it's all relative.

I win because I can complete sets and enjoy them,

He wins because he can sell complete sets and get an inheritance.

Win/win

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I agree with everyone above. I had quit collecting cards years ago but then an old friend offered me Topps sets from 1953-80 all at least 50 percent complete.
I have had more fun buying vg-ex cards and filling holes. I love putting sets together, while owning a graded 1956 Mantle is really nice, I want the rest of the supporting cast!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. It really helps to hear about your common experiences, and it makes me feel a little less alone.

Adam, I am finding that I enjoy the lower grade cards just as much if not more. I know it sounds crazy, but I have actually been stressing over cards and money! I have started getting too nitpicky for my own good and think, for me, it is time to revisit why I collect. Those cards are all little pieces of history, and I really enjoy them. Somehow, I take heart in knowing that some kid back in the 50s or 60s really enjoyed the card and handled it and traded it.

What some of you others have said really hit home, too. I don't envision buying cards that are mutilated or have surface issues so bad that I can't tell who is on the card, but I am not going to stress out over a crease or two on an otherwise ok card. I really want to put multiple sets together, and this will allow me to really be free to do it.

I am not downing anyone else's approach. I really hope no one reads it that way. This is just where this journey as a collector has taken me. Like I think darkhorse said, this isn't about investing, it is about collecting and enjoyment.

I have some higher grade graded singles and some other higher grade material that I am thinking of selling so that I can really get going on some projects. I am not sure when I will do that, but it will be a big help if/when I do.

[tonyo]

Raw, lower grade for me. I don't even put many into binders. I enjoy flipping thru stacks of raw cards and don't really want many that I'm afraid to touch.

[Vintagevault13]

Robert,

Great thread. Thanks for staring it. I am primarily a set builder and agree with the responses. Due to budget, I collect cards in VG-EX condition. There a a few flaws I avoid, but I don't mind things such as light creases or touched corners. I collect purely for enjoyment and not for investment. I am glad to see others have similar standards. I enjoy seeing other collector's acquisitions in high grades, but it is great to be reminded that there is a variety of collectors that I can identify with. That is what is great about this hobby. It is truly one that everyone can enjoy, regardless of budget.

Ed

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

Robert,

Great thread. Thanks for staring it. I am primarily a set builder and agree with the responses. Due to budget, I collect cards in VG-EX condition. There a a few flaws I avoid, but I don't mind things such as light creases or touched corners. I collect purely for enjoyment and not for investment. I am glad to see others have similar standards. I enjoy seeing other collector's acquisitions in high grades, but it is great to be reminded that there is a variety of collectors that I can identify with. That is what is great about this hobby. It is truly one that everyone can enjoy, regardless of budget.

Ed

Thanks for the reply, Ed. What you said is what I am coming around to. I think I will start aiming in the VG-VG-EX range. I am starting to think light creasing away from the focal point of the card would be ok with me. I guess the flaws I would avoid would be surface wear to the point that the image itself was impacted, an abundance of writing on a card (a little like what Adam showed on that '65 Mays would be very acceptable), or miscuts. I am even starting to think that I can relax on centering on at least some issues. I agree also that this is just a hobby for me, and I have borderline driven myself crazy over cards, and it's time to take a step back. My pockets are only so deep...

[jchcollins]

Hi Robert,

I was actually looking for a thread like this. I'm getting back into collecting older cards (starting with the 1955 and '56 Topps sets I've always wanted to complete but never did...) now in my late 30's after at least a decade off from the hobby.

I've been there with the high-end, graded card hoopla - trust me. You get to the point where you really lose sight of the card as a whole and are only worrying about a grade on a case, or worse - fretting about only one corner on one card, or something equally ridiculous. I found myself up in the middle of the night looking at cards under a magnifying glass - really? Was my BVG 7 '56 Koufax better than the PSA 6 Koufax? At some point the hobby just got so frustrating to me at every turn that I kind of just put it aside. Since then I've gone back to school and had a family and realized that life is too short...

When I was a kid, the fact that a card was simply "old" was cool enough. If it was a card of a superstar that was all the better - and when I collected these types of vintage cards as a kid in back in the 1980's and early 90's - I was for sure not worried about some dinged corners or an occasional crease or other small flaw. Some of the most cherished cards that I recall having as a kid back then had some pretty serious issues from the PSA perspective. But when I look back now, that time period was when I had the most fun with collecting - hands down.

I'm hoping that getting back into collecting now with the ability to take things a bit less seriously will payoff. You are right, you can still get very presentable cards with a ton of eye appeal in the VG range - and for a fraction of what those who are participating in the high-end market wind up dishing out.

Good luck and long live those less than perfect cards!

[almostdone]

Just a suggestion but you say you have a handful of higher graded cards you might sell to get some cash to purchase lower condition cards. One of the things I loved as a kid and try to do now as an adult is trade cards. I remember trading away a 1978 Nolan Ryan card for a Ed Ott card because his name sounded cooler to me. Dumb trade but great memory.

See if you can find someone looking for high grade and would be willing you trade a stack of lower grade for it. Put something on the BST and give it a try. If no one bites nothing list but maybe you would come up with something great fir birth parties and all you paid for was shipping.

I have made a few trades on the boards and done very well. Great way to interact with collectors as well without always feeling like a business transaction.

Just a thought,
Drew

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Hi Robert,

I was actually looking for a thread like this. I'm getting back into collecting older cards (starting with the 1955 and '56 Topps sets I've always wanted to complete but never did...) now in my late 30's after at least a decade off from the hobby.

I've been there with the high-end, graded card hoopla - trust me. You get to the point where you really lose sight of the card as a whole and are only worrying about a grade on a case, or worse - fretting about only one corner on one card, or something equally ridiculous. I found myself up in the middle of the night looking at cards under a magnifying glass - really? Was my BVG 7 '56 Koufax better than the PSA 6 Koufax? At some point the hobby just got so frustrating to me at every turn that I kind of just put it aside. Since then I've gone back to school and had a family and realized that life is too short...

When I was a kid, the fact that a card was simply "old" was cool enough. If it was a card of a superstar that was all the better - and when I collected these types of vintage cards as a kid in back in the 1980's and early 90's - I was for sure not worried about some dinged corners or an occasional crease or other small flaw. Some of the most cherished cards that I recall having as a kid back then had some pretty serious issues from the PSA perspective. But when I look back now, that time period was when I had the most fun with collecting - hands down.

I'm hoping that getting back into collecting now with the ability to take things a bit less seriously will payoff. You are right, you can still get very presentable cards with a ton of eye appeal in the VG range - and for a fraction of what those who are participating in the high-end market wind up dishing out.

Good luck and long live those less than perfect cards!

You summed up a lot of my thoughts quite well. Thanks for the insight. It is somehow comforting to know that I am not alone.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by almostdone

Just a suggestion but you say you have a handful of higher graded cards you might sell to get some cash to purchase lower condition cards. One of the things I loved as a kid and try to do now as an adult is trade cards. I remember trading away a 1978 Nolan Ryan card for a Ed Ott card because his name sounded cooler to me. Dumb trade but great memory.

See if you can find someone looking for high grade and would be willing you trade a stack of lower grade for it. Put something on the BST and give it a try. If no one bites nothing list but maybe you would come up with something great fir birth parties and all you paid for was shipping.

I have made a few trades on the boards and done very well. Great way to interact with collectors as well without always feeling like a business transaction.

Just a thought,
Drew

Thanks, Drew. I have thought about that as a possibility. I guess I will see what develops.

[vintage954]

I mostly collect EX-EXMT unless is pre-1948. I might spend more money in the long run but for me it is worth the wait. I collect for myself and not investment so like many others have said, when I die my kid and my brother get my collection.

[LeftHandedDane]

Like many of the other posters, I actually prefer cards in the VGEX range (+/-). I don't care about corners, but avoid cards with creases, writing, paper loss, etc on the front (I also dont care what the back looks like). My standards go down the older the card - for example I think the 39/40 Play Balls look better with rounded corners and some yellowing!

I also prefer raw cards to slabbed, unless I am buying higher priced cards where I am worried about fakes. Even trimming does not bother me unless it is super obvious, as long as I am not getting ripped off by paying top dollar for something that has been trimmed.

Frankly, I never really could justify paying 3, 5 or even 10x as much for a highly graded card than the VGEX one, and would much rather spend the money to get more cards!

[Exhibitman]

I liquidated nearly all of my PSA 6 and better slabs and replaced them with presentable lesser cards, mostly raw.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

You summed up a lot of my thoughts quite well. Thanks for the insight. It is somehow comforting to know that I am not alone.

You're welcome. If it makes you feel any better, I still fight the urge to occasionally splurge on a high-grade card that I don't need (or more accurately cannot afford...) but sooner or later I usually pull out of the clouds. I guess when I was single and just worried about myself that was one thing - but anymore I'm unhappy with myself in the long run if I know I've spent more on a card than I should have. It happens to us a lot of us from time to time, I guess.

I'd like to think that especially for set collectors - more people would do a better job of emphasizing the collectability of VG range cards. Think about it: These are small pieces of cardboard that were issued in wax wrappers with chewing gum to children - in many cases 50 or more years ago. And today we somehow think they aren't good unless they are close to perfect on a 10 point scale? That flies in the face of what is rational when it comes to what collecting is supposed to be about - in my humble opinion anyway...

-John

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

Like many of the other posters, I actually prefer cards in the VGEX range (+/-). I don't care about corners, but avoid cards with creases, writing, paper loss, etc on the front (I also dont care what the back looks like). My standards go down the older the card - for example I think the 39/40 Play Balls look better with rounded corners and some yellowing!

I also prefer raw cards to slabbed, unless I am buying higher priced cards where I am worried about fakes. Even trimming does not bother me unless it is super obvious, as long as I am not getting ripped off by paying top dollar for something that has been trimmed.

Frankly, I never really could justify paying 3, 5 or even 10x as much for a highly graded card than the VGEX one, and would much rather spend the money to get more cards!

Good explanation - It comes down to personal preferences. For me (and it must be said this is mostly for stars and HOFers - I'm less picky with common cards) it is all about the eye appeal. Corner damage if not extreme normally does not bother me. I don't like cards that are badly off-centered, but minor creasing - what I used to call "spider" creases or wrinkling does not bother me either so long as it doesn't detract from the eye-appeal of the card. I have a '56 Topps Ted Williams obtained as a kid which has this type of creasing in one small place off to the side, but otherwise looks great. Out of morbid curiosity about a decade ago (and because I had some other cards I wanted to get graded to sell) I shipped it off to SGC, and it came back a 40, VG-3. When I think of all the pleasure I got out of that card as a kid - I mean it was a real museum piece next to my friends and all of their Jose Canseco rookie cards - I don't think I'd trade it for a PSA 6 today.

[JollyElm]

I'm upgrading (I should have said TRYING to upgrade) all of my sets from 1957 to 1972, so these days I am definitely looking for cards in nicer shape. But I have to address something that people keep on saying. Collecting for personal enjoyment or collecting for 'investment' are in no way mutually exclusive. You don't have to choose one approach or the other. I collect because I frickin' love it…but I also want to be sure that if I'm forced to sell off everything one day that I'll get a decent penny in return for it all. It always lingers (at least a little bit) somewhere in the back of my mind. I'm sure most collectors have the selfsame (love that word!!) mindset.

[Exhibitman]

These are the sort of cards I like to collect now:



In a moment of weakness I sent both to PSA. Wanna guess the grades?

I am also perfectly happy with lower grade cards if they are at the right price for my collecting budget and tastes. These are just fine with me and collectively I don't think I spent $100 on them:








About the only place where I tend towards high grade cards are for my 1970s cards, because that's how they looked to me out of the packs back then as a kid.

[nolemmings]

In a moment of weakness I sent both to PSA. Wanna guess the grades?

Jackson 4.5; Clemente 5

[Exhibitman]

Pretty close: Jackson 4 Clemente 6