NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:48 PM
deweyinthehall deweyinthehall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 673
Default Topps Production Process

This could really go under the pre-1980 category as well.

I own several different kinds of production items from the Topps Vault - match print photos, color negatives, slick proofs, blank back proofs, progressive proofs, etc.

Is there any source (or anyone here) who can explain precisely how all these different artifacts fit together in the production process? In other words, in what order and for what purpose was each made? Why a blank back proof AND a slick proof? Etc.

Also, is there any known video showing the cutting process at Topps? I have a couple odd misprints (including a diamond cut..not that the image is off diagonally, the actual finished card has non-right angles and is in the form of a diamond) that make me wonder how it all actually worked.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:53 PM
steve B steve B is online now
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

I'm not sure anyone has put together the entire process at Topps, it probably also varied over the years.

A good guess can be made about many of the items, and what they'd be used for when in the process, but being certain would be difficult.

The place I worked for did almost no proofing at all. Probably a photographic proof to get customer approval, but I only ever saw one or two of them. The print job I had done a year after I left was straight to production, no proof whatsoever. But it was also a very simple job.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:47 PM
West West is offline
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 72
Default

I have an article that I dug out of the Topps Magazine in 1991 during my research into the cause of the 1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF. It details a lot of the production process you are asking about and I will attach a full scan of it in my next post. I don't have my new scanner hooked up so the quality is not great.

Your vault items are mostly or all pre-production items, proofing, as Steve mentioned.

As it mentions in the article I'm attaching, pre-production began at the original Topps facility in Brooklyn. I imagine that after a card design had been decided on, many of the proofs that you have in your possession were made. According to the article, after all 792 cards in the 1991 set were ok'd by staff, film was then sent to Duryea to have plates made. In the first few photos of the article you can see the proofing process. It's important to note that the Topps Magazine article is more promotion than journalism. The article implies that the entire printing process was done at Duryea, but two sources inside the company have confirmed that the actual mass printing of uncut sheets required to fulfill the massive production demands of the late 80's and early 90's was done elsewhere. Additionally, the article states that film was sent to Duryea in order to make printing plates, but a former pressman at Quebecor was quoted elsewhere as saying “The film was sent to us. All we had to do was strip it in.”

Regardless of who ultimately did what task, the article is very helpful in piecing together the puzzle and has some great images. Here is the only pre-production photo that I've been able to find:

"Each of the four pieces of color film (black, blue, red, yellow) are inspected before being developed onto metal printing plates."



My knowledge of the rest of the process only covers the time period from late 1989 to 1991. Some of this information is in the Topps Magazine article and some comes from sources inside Topps whom I have spoken with. Topps contracted out printing of most or all baseball cards to Federated Lithographers-Printers, who were then bought by Quebecor Inc. in '89. Printing took place at a plant in Providence, RI, with three shifts working around the clock. Uncut sheets were shipped to the Topps factory in Duryea where they were cut, assembled into packs and then into cases. Each case was stamped with a six digit serial number that indicated the date and shift when it was shipped out to a vendor. From there it went into the hands of dealers, stores and collectors.

Some blown up photos from the article.
An uncut sheet rolling off the press:


Uncut sheet being pulled for inspection by quality control:


Sample sheet being inspected by QC:


Uncut sheet being fed into a cutting/slitting machine


Cut cards in coded boxes getting ready for packing:


Cards being loaded into a new plastic test wrap called polypropylene:


Boxes hand loaded into cases:


The Topps shipping department:


On your last question, you'll see in photo labeled "5" an uncut sheet being fed into a "slitting" machine for cutting.

Employees at both the Topps factory and the Providence plant were required to sign non-disclosure agreements to protect Topps' trade secrets, the details of the production process and, I assume, card population (Topps may have produced over 10 million of each card in 1990). It was difficult to find information on this subject due to the secretive nature of the business.

Oh and one last bonus photo from the archives (I don't remember the date but someone will most definitely recognize the packaging):

Last edited by West; 07-07-2019 at 10:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:50 PM
West West is offline
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 72
Default

Original article:




Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:51 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,946
Default

Great post West. Made me go dig out my Topps Magazines.

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 07-08-2019 at 09:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:01 AM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is offline
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,789
Default

NDA was a common thing in the industry. We had a Score plant here for a short time and had one 50 miles away that lasted the entire time they produced BB cards. I know it was very strictly enforced at both plants.

If you talked to anyone about anything they would fire you at a minimum. They would also press charges if you took anything home or even got caught dumpster diving.

Before 1991 they also made sure that little to no print error cards left the factory. The only thing that somehow got out was a ton of 89 blank backs. Not sure how they got out because I know the person in charge of destroying them at the time. I did get a few(very few) 89 and 90 Score wrong backs but nothing else.

EDIT:to add thanks for posting the article. I did notice they didn't show the tables full of star players pulled to sell directly to large dealers. I know Score used to pull 10s if not 100s of thousands of cards of EACH star player to sell directly to large dealers. Remember how back then you could buy huge lots of single star players. All those didn't come from dealers breaking up sets.

Last edited by bnorth; 07-08-2019 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:52 AM
steve B steve B is online now
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

I believe the bonus pic is 1974.

Thanks for posting the article, I haven't seen it.

And the secrecy is even in that article. The slitting machine is too small for that sheet to fit.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:37 PM
toppcat's Avatar
toppcat toppcat is offline
Dave.Horn.ish
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,800
Default

I've seen that Topps Magazine piece before. Even into the 90's they were misdirecting people as to how things were done at Topps-crazy! That last photo features the 1974 Baseball Cards being rolled off the line and I believe was from their 1974 Annual Report. More on those reports here if interested:

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...nnual%20Report

Some of their printers over the years, there's probably a couple more I don't know about but Lord Baltimore Press and Zabel Brothers were the biggest ones I think until the early 80's. LBP was bought out around 1959 and Zabel lasted into the early 80's:

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...pps%20Printers

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...0Lithographers

Last edited by toppcat; 07-08-2019 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:03 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,486
Default

Here's an article about the Providence Plant:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...hn-tassoni-jr/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:05 PM
West West is offline
member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
Here's an article about the Providence Plant:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...hn-tassoni-jr/
Ah, thanks Mike for posting that. I meant to include the link in my original post. It was great to finally hear about the third party printers operating behind the scenes. I bet the workers there had some stories!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:02 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,486
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by West View Post
Ah, thanks Mike for posting that. I meant to include the link in my original post. It was great to finally hear about the third party printers operating behind the scenes. I bet the workers there had some stories!
No problem. Just glad I was able to find it after having read it several months back.

Of course, back then we thought the cards were "cardboard gold" sure to be worth huge money...turns out many 1990-1992 era cards aren't worth the paper and ink that went into them.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1950s Topps Production Numbers - A clue scottglevy Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 11 04-29-2019 10:41 AM
Evidence Supporting N172 Production Process Joe_G. Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 10-19-2013 11:15 PM
1952 (topps) color process mightyq Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 2 02-02-2010 10:13 PM
Production process from our non-sports friends Archive Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 7 04-25-2008 12:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 PM.


ebay GSB