Another Probstein LOL

[Runscott]

Happy Thanksgiving

[markf31]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

now that rick commented and those comments were appended, everyone got their resolve.

...the thread goes quiet. issue is over with.

just like the rest of them.

kevin

How ironic! The thread goes quiet for 4 days and drifts towards the bottom of page one, perhaps to disappear from page 1 list of threads, then you decide to come back and post a reply trumpeting what exactly? Your own ego-maniacal Pyrrhic victory?

In the end you've done nothing more than refresh the thread to to top of page 1 and allow additional forum users the opportunity to read the thread, become a little better educated about looking out for, dealing with, and staying away from these unethical bidding/consigning/consignment practices on Ebay.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by markf31

How ironic! The thread goes quiet for 4 days and drifts towards the bottom of page one, perhaps to disappear from page 1 list of threads, then you decide to come back and post a reply trumpeting what exactly? Your own ego-maniacal Pyrrhic victory?

Mark, if this moron had a Pyrrhic victory it would be his first. He has no idea what if anything is going on behind the scenes regarding the fraud in these auctions -- but of course, that doesn't stop him from opening his hole and allowing more stupidity to come out. At least he didn't make any racist or homophobic remarks in that post so I suppose for him that's a big victory.

[the-illini]

76 bids on a T3 Rube Waddell with 6 days to go? Seems reasonable to me...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Turk...item5401813a3e

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by the-illini

76 bids on a T3 Rube Waddell with 6 days to go? Seems reasonable to me...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Turk...item5401813a3e

But only 72 of those are from the same bidder.

[Batter67up]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

But only 72 of those are from the same bidder.

It's OK. He stopped when he realized his next bid was going to be the high bid. Must have reached his limit.

[ullmandds]

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

Problem is, that when a Ruth goes off in a PWCC or Probstein auction, the price is inflated -- which influences the value that you would place on the card when you make a best offer.

[bobbyw8469]

I think it all boils down to unrealistic expectations. Just because a card sold for $1,000 last week from a seller other than PWCC or Probstein DOES NOT make that exact same card worth $1,500 or more one week later with PWCC or Probstein as the seller!!!! Or does it??!?!??!?!?!??!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

There are a lot more people on the board, no doubt. Wild Wild west? Far from it in my opinion. That doesn't mean you can just do things blindly. But I personally think that if you do your homework it's as close to perfectly safe as I know of, on such a venue. I am biased of course.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

It's OK. He stopped when he realized his next bid was going to be the high bid. Must have reached his limit.

This is what happened to me the one time I bid in a "123" auction, back sometime around '05-'07 or so. I was of course suspicious and decided I would never bid on an auction of his again Anyway, the threads regarding these actions are great to shine the light on this. Per some of the posts it has prevented others from dealing with the guy.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that. Yeah. Sure, there are a few trolls here and there on N54. That said, there are lots of solid, committed, friendly collectors here who've got many years into the Hobby and are as passionate about their collections as can be. Everyone who shows up at our shows is evidence of that. If you're around SoCal in May when we do our next show, come on out and meet the gang. Or attend the National if you haven't and meet up with everyone there. Lots of good people...

I don't think flipping is bad. I think we're all flippers to some extent--I know I try to finance my collection that way--but the prevalence of auction houses as the means of selling cards with mass lotting that lumps dozens or even hundreds of cards into 'dealer friendly' lots increasingly dictates that we all end up flipping stuff.

The answer to shilling on eBay is not simple but there are mitigating measures that can be taken, which we've kicked around ad nauseum here already. First and foremost is exposure, which N54 does very well indeed.

[Batter67up]

I agree their are a lot of really good people on this board but as it grows like everything else in this world the scammers and let's make a quick buck people have grown in multiples and are just a turn-off in the hobby. They will come and go on this board and hopefully the quality collectors will stick it out. This hobby was built on collectors trading and purchasing cards they really want and exploited by people trying to make a quick buck or selling fake/counterfeit items. The TPG's have included themselves in the deception in the hobby by grading cards that are known to be trimmed and giving them a grade of 8. The accountability is just not there. Dealers using one price guide to buy from and a second to sell from? We are not going to grow the hobby with these actions. I have enjoyed this hobby and this forum but I made my original post because I really don't like what I have been seeing over the last year or so. I hate negativity and look forward to discussing the excitement of someone getting a card they really wanted.

Steve

[HRBAKER]

Follow the money.
When the dollars get big (and they have) along come the folks allergic to a honest day's work.

There are PLENTY of fine folks on this board but it is different than it used to be. And that's not all bad either.

We will all be flippers at some point.

[glynparson]

Are not new to this business and there are far less of both than in the late 1980s-mid 1990s when there were far more people attempting to make a buck selling cards. I also do not think there is more but actually less fraud than back then, in terms of counterfeits and alterations. Do these things still exist absolutely and they always will. That does not mean we should not expose fraud when we see it. There is more fraud in terms of shilling mainly because far more cards are now sold via auction then at any other time. Ps there are a ton of good people on this board and a few p.i.t.as.

[danmckee]

You guys are wasting your time, shill bidding is allowed if you are bringing in the big money, aka BRSZ!

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by danmckee

You guys are wasting your time, shill bidding is allowed if you are bringing in the big money!

Unfortunately you are 100% right.

[iwantitiwinit]

Guess what I bid on a probstein auction (yes my mistake) and long and behold I was subsequently outbid. Now today with about a day and a half left I become the top bidder as the person bidding more than me has retracted or cancelled their bid. Since I don't want to cast dispersions on anyone you can draw your own conclusions. The ebay email is copied below. What do you think?



Dear eBay Community Member,
The following item, on which you placed a bid has had a bid retraction or cancellation, and you are now the high bidder. Congratulations! You can view the retraction/cancellation and the reason provided by selecting the (bid history) link from the individual item page. As a result of this retraction/cancellation, there is a possibility that the high bid amount and the current high bidder have changed. You can always view the current status of any item by going to the individual item page. (Be sure to refresh or reload the page to view the most up-to-date information.)

Regards,
eBay

It's a t206 chesboro sgc 50 with sovereign back if u care to look at bid history.

[HRBAKER]

Congratulations!

[iwantitiwinit]

Thank you

[tiger8mush]

Auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Jack-Ch...item54018ab179

details of bidder who retracted $150 bid ...

Bid History: Details
Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: 0***a ( 53Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: T206 Jack Chesbro New York HOF SOVEREIGN 150 Back SGC 50 VG-EX 4
Bids on this item: 0

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 2
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 2
Bid retractions (6 months): 4
30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Help Last Bid Help
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 <1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Hockey-NHL 1 Seller 2 3d

So couldn't the seller, every time he gets a bid retraction email, ban the bidder from his auctions?

[HRBAKER]

So he's bid on 2 items in 30 days and retracted both bids.
This one could just be a squirrel.

[Rob D.]

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

I feel better already.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

So he's bid on 2 items in 30 days and retracted both bids.
This one could just be a squirrel.

I suspect not.

[atx840]

What's in the pocket? I'm genuinely freaked out.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by atx840

What's in the pocket? I'm genuinely freaked out.

Triple-Coding Transmittor

[Rob D.]

Was going to post this in the monthly pickups thread, but it's more appropriate here. Got a half-dozen of them, to be issued ASAP to agents in the field. Confident this is the final piece to end the war on fraud.

The green grass on the leaky bucket speaks no ill will to the man from Nantucket.

Signing off.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Jack-Ch...item54018ab179

details of bidder who retracted $150 bid ...

Bid History: Details
Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: 0***a ( 53Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: T206 Jack Chesbro New York HOF SOVEREIGN 150 Back SGC 50 VG-EX 4
Bids on this item: 0

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 2
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 2
Bid retractions (6 months): 4
30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Help Last Bid Help
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 <1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Hockey-NHL 1 Seller 2 3d

So couldn't the seller, every time he gets a bid retraction email, ban the bidder from his auctions?

Every bidder in that auction has a high % of bids on Ricks items, 1 of them must have some really fat fingers with 27 bid retractions.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ten feet tall and bulletproof

[ctownboy]

IwantitIwinit,

I would call eBay and complain. Tell them you now know about the questionable things that go on with this sellers' auctions and that you do not appreciate the fact that you might be shilled.

If they don't do anything then I would wait and retract your bid and leave somebody else holding the bag.

David

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Every bidder in that auction has a high % of bids on Ricks items, 1 of them must have some really fat fingers with 27 bid retractions.

I guess I am the only sucker then since this is one of the few cards he autions that I have bid on. This will be the last time. If I win it so be it, but I doubt it.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Was going to post this in the monthly pickups thread, but it's more appropriate here. Got a half-dozen of them, to be issued ASAP to agents in the field. Confident this is the final piece to end the war on fraud.

The green grass on the leaky bucket speaks no ill will to the man from Nantucket.

Signing off.

Very initiatives of you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

IwantitIwinit,

I would call eBay and complain. Tell them you now know about the questionable things that go on with this sellers' auctions and that you do not appreciate the fact that you might be shilled.

If they don't do anything then I would wait and retract your bid and leave somebody else holding the bag.

David

Last night and in the last few minutes I have been emailing with Rick P about this auction of his. That bid retracting person hasn't won anything from him in over 90 days, he says, and ebay allows bid retractions, so he doesn't see an issue. I kindly told him that there is an issue and just because ebay allows it doesn't make it right. He did share literally hundreds of biddrers id's he has blocked. He says he does take action many times and many times it's because of what is said on the forum....and I would imagine other forums too. I told him that I know there are issues with someone retracting multilple times, he knows and the whole world knows it. Just because he denies culpability and no ebay rules are being broken doesn't make it right...

[Peter_Spaeth]

So he doesn't have time to monitor his auctions, yet he has found reason to block hundreds of bidders?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So he doesn't have time to monitor his auctions, yet he has found reason to block hundreds of bidders?

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

It was brought to his attention over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own consgnments and yet some how he didn't get blocked (as a bidder or consignor). Leon, if you speak to him again, please ask Rick why he took no action with Panky.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by Leon

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

I wonder how the Probstein apologists will try to spin that little anecdote.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by markf31

I wonder how the Probstein apologists will try to spin that little anecdote.

No need to spin it, they will accept it at face value, and maybe we can get some more misleading calculations to support it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It was brought to his attention over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own consgnments and yet some how he didn't get blocked (as a bidder or consignor). Leon, if you speak to him again, please ask Rick why he took no action with Panky.

I will.....but I want to go on record as someone who thinks it's crazy to let bidders retract bids almost at will, regardless of ebay policies or not. Do I think Rick is complicit otherwise, no. Do I think he turns the other cheek, so to speak, yes. Do I think he does act on some of the more egregious issues, yes. But I will ask about the Panky issue.....

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

There has never been any issue that I am aware of with the items he sells not being real. The auctions they are sold in are full of shill bids in many instances.

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

No buying from him is not safe and I will explain in detail in a later thread.

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

That bid retracting person hasn't won anything from him in over 90 days, he says, and ebay allows bid retractions, so he doesn't see an issue.

That just says criminal behavior in my opinion.

[HRBAKER]

It may be the case that that the "bid retractor" never had any intention of "winning" anything. So I am not sure what that is supposed to mean.

[frankbmd]

Ebay could install a "RETRACT NOW" button to facilitate bid retractions, but I would suggest that in addition to providing the Bid Count in parentheses to scrollers that they provide a Retraction Count as well on each auction page. These could be color coded as demonstrated here.

So if you went to any auction page the line with the current bid would read

$65.00 [35 bids] [4 retractions]

Just an idea to make things easier for all.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Good idea Frank! BTW nasty thread about problemstein on the post war side.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Ebay could install a "RETRACT NOW" button to facilitate bid retractions, but I would suggest that in addition to providing the Bid Count in parentheses to scrollers that they provide a Retraction Count as well on each auction page. These could be color coded as demonstrated here.

So if you went to any auction page the line with the current bid would read

$65.00 [35 bids] [4 retractions]

Just an idea to make things easier for all.

I suspect that at some point ebay will get rid of the 'bid retractions' information, as it hinders shilling by their larger accounts.