Why isn't anyone talking about this fresh Wagner

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Posted By: James Gallo

Why is there no talk about this card or this auction?



http://tinyurl.com/6k2dqw


This is gotta be the nicest Wagner for sale in forever...


Thoughts on what it will sell for?


James G







Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: peter ullman

Wow...that's a beauty! Who is Phillip Weiss?

In this economy...I'd guess 860K.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Phillip Weiss has been running auctions on Long Island for years. The "Oceanside basement" where this card was found is within half an hour of his business. He lucked out by the geography of it. Phil is a good guy and I wish him well with the sale.

P.S.- this thread is too wide because of the link.

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

Peter Weiss runs a great general auction company out of New York. I purchased an advertising piece from him about five years ago. He runs into some wonderful material.

Greg

Edited to say Barry beat me to it

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Posted By: Shawn

Weiss is also on about every episode of Antiques Roadshow... Dave F also has a "lot" for sale at this months auction.



http://tinyurl.com/5obts2

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

2-3 different times and very professional each time.......
Relatively quick, nicely packed shipment..............

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Posted By: Matt

His stuff usually is listed on eBay via Live Auction about a week before the auction.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I echo all the sentiments here...I've bought from Philip many times...always very professional.

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Posted By: peter ullman

wow...there are some interesting lots in his auction. No t210 jackson though! Interesting to see "original" cards as they were found...some really beaten e cards!

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

I purchased an incredible Beer sign from Phil about five years ago. It was great to be bidding on the floor for that one (although I would have been thrilled if the phone bidding wasn't so heavy). During that auction, he also had some incredible pre-war baseball sweaters including one from the Sox. Thank God I wasn't collecting baseball back then. He runs a fun auction. I see they're all still on his past auction results page.

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Posted By: Tony N

Peter,

There is a T210 Joe Jackson coming up in Mastro's December Legends Live Auction. There is also a SGC 20 E107 Mathewson & Brunner's Bread Complete set as well.

Tony

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Posted By: peter ullman

thanks Tony...I better start scavenging for gold crowns to turn in to my local metal recycler.

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Posted By: David R

It seems like people still aren't talking about this fresh Wagner. The seller has generated more discussion than the card. I think this is a great example. If it were mine, I probably would have had PSA grade it because I think it may have received a higher grade. Would a PSA 4 have increased the final price?

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Posted By: peter ullman

wow...that sure is a nice wagner!



Since I can't afford it I'm more excited about my new Pinkerton Matty...it's rarer than that Honus too!!!

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Posted By: Scott Levy

Interesting to note that the last two "finds" which included Wagner did not include Plank.

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Posted By: barrysloate

David- the card has a light crease in the upper right corner, and it is visible. I think PSA would give it a 3.

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Posted By: peter ullman

Interesting point, Scott. Is it thought there are more Wagners than Planks?

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Posted By: Matt

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Posted By: Scott Levy

I don't have access to pop. stats, however, I had always considered the Wagner to be just very slightly rarer than the Plank. But the margin may be small enough that a few finds that include one and not the other may start to skew the relative scarcity.

IMO the Plank is probably the most underrated card of the T206 set (perhaps I'm just saying that because I can never afford a Wags)!

Regards,
S

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Posted By: peter ullman

I don't know if I'd say the Plank is underrated. It's certainly appreciated...and it's value reflects that. To me...they're both mythical in appearance.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...Lionel Carter thought Plank was harder to find than Wagner; but, of course, he had Plank and not Wagner, so who knows whether that's at all relevant.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I purchased some baseball memorabilia in one of Weiss' Live auctions and was a satisfied customer.

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Posted By: Phil

Using just PSA & SGC for Population Reports, there are:

37 Total Wagner's Graded (30 PSA, 7 SGC)

71 Total Plank's Graded (53 PSA, 18 SGC)

Almost 2 to 1 Plank to Wagner.

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Posted By: James Todd

Have any of you guys who have bought from this house before bought raw cards? I'm interested in several lots but when I called to ask about authentication, the guy told me that all cards are sold as is with no returns. I'm concerned about a card being trimmed or not authentic after paying full price for an authentic and unaltered card. It worries me a little. The man I spoke to also told me the multi-signed balls come with no guarantee and no returns. Seems like a lot of faith to ask a bidder to put into an item. Especially when there are several Ruth combination balls.

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Posted By: Dave F

It's difficult to find any auction house that is going to allow returns. Peter Weiss has a very good reputation and has sold many high dollar items...some unbelievable stamp prices in the past.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Didn't Carter Pass on a Wagner once but never did find another Plank to upgrade his...

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Posted By: James Todd

I know it's hard to find a house that will accept returns, but they usually have the items authenticated before the auction. If he has a good reputation I could put my trust in him. Still would be worried about bidding on a Ruth ball though without a guarantee.

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Posted By: Matt

From their TOC (emphasis theirs):

"Everything in our Auctions is SOLD AS IS, RETURNS WILL NO LONGER BE ACCEPTED, and WITH NO EXCEPTIONS! All of our descriptions are written as accurately as possible, with all sizes approximate, and all apparent faults noted. Because of the volume of material we place in each of our sales, some descriptions may contain erroneous information or minor faults could be missed. It would be in your best interest as a serious buyer, for yourself or a reliable representative come to our Gallery to Pre-view the items in person, or at the very least, call us during pre-view hours so one of our representatives can look at the item while you ask specific questions.

You, the customers, are the experts. While our staff has a wide range of knowledge in the collectibles and memorabilia field, we cannot possibly have expertise in every specific category of collectible. PLEASE BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE ITEMS YOU ARE BIDDING ON, IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS, WE PREFER THAT YOU DO NOT BID! This is not because we don't value your business, but more the fact that WE WANT HAPPY CUSTOMERS!"

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Posted By: Dave F

Yeah I personally would never bid on a Ruth ball without it being authenticated and am not sure even them I'd still be so certain. Barry can probably correct me if I'm wrong on Philip Weiss but I'm not sure authenticating baseball material is their thing. I don't know that it's trying to hide stuff, just that isn't their bread and butter, other collectible stuff is.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This is strictly my opinion going on many years of watching and participating in Weiss auctions - they do NOT know baseball memorabilia and cards on a level of say REA/Mastro/Lelands even though they sell a lot of it. I have never heard of them misrepresenting an item or selling fraudulent items like some other houses that I will not name, but they do oftentimes have cards that are very rare/scarce and they don't know it because of the way they are listed or thrown in with other lots.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- while Phil is an acquaintance I certainly don't know anything about his authentication process. I think anyone in his position can tell whether or not a T206 is real or a reprint. Selling raw cards does bring up the possibility that some of them could be altered, but because these appear to originate from a family find, I would certainly feel good about them.

But I agree that buying a signed baseball without an LOA presents some risk.

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Posted By: quan

1 mirrion dollars (serious guess)

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Posted By: James Gallo

Matt,

Do you work for Philip Weiss Auctions and if so in what capacity. Just wondering as it was not clear at all from your post.

I have never had any issues or problems with anything I bought from Phil.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Matt

I cut and paste from their TOC...

I'll edit my post so that is clear.

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Posted By: James Gallo

Matt you needed to copy a bit more IMO

From the web site.

"Any Claims As To Authenticity Must Be Brought To The Auctioneer's Attention Within Two Weeks Of Auction Closing. Lots May Be Withdrawn By Auctioneer Prior To Sale Without Notice".


I am not sure if this is pre or post auction, but I read it as post. I know they wouldn't sell anything that was obviously wrong, and it seems all the Ruth balls have a solid history.

They have sold Ruth balls in the past for the usualy 10-20K so I don't really see a huge problem here.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: JimB

"Using just PSA & SGC for Population Reports, there are:

37 Total Wagner's Graded (30 PSA, 7 SGC)

71 Total Plank's Graded (53 PSA, 18 SGC)

Almost 2 to 1 Plank to Wagner."


The pop report off by at least one on the Plank. I have had one for a while. It was originally graded by PSA. I thought it was undergraded. When GAI was new and reputable, I crossed it to GAI and got a bump. I have since crossed it back to PSA. I would not be surprised if there were others, but the same could be said for Wagners.
JimB

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Posted By: Richard

I was ready to bid on a $2000 minimum bid item, and then unfortunately, it took me to a page requiring credit card information. I don't supply credit card information to auction houses as a pre-condition for bidding. REA, Mastro and Heritage don't ask for such nonsense.

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Posted By: Alan

Was this particular Wagner on the presentation/discussion that Doug Allen discussed at the last National ? I'm really suprised it was consigned to Weiss auctions. Nothing against them, but I figured it would have been consigned to REA or Mastro or Lelands or Heritage.

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Posted By: DMcD

Would one of the moderators kindly fix the offending link above with this tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/5obts2 . This is an interesting thread but it is a hassle to read. TIA