Help ID this charm picture!

[GoldenAge50s]

I last approached this subject back in 2008 & since we have many new members since then, I'm hoping SOMEONE can come up w/ an answer & better yet, some proof, as to who this player is!

This is the one charm I've never been sure about, so we'll hope for some new ideas.

Here's the puzzler: Let's hear who you think it is and why. (There is another Net54 member who has many of these charms, as I do, and we are in disagreement as to who it may be)

[whiteymet]

I don't think the years match up since I assume the charm is from the 50's, but it looks like Freddie Fitzsimmons to me.

[Butch7999]

Previous thread (not all that long ago, Fred -- autumn 2015), just for reference:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=211846

Original 2008 thread here:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=66836

Also: we just now notice, somehow for the first time, that there appears to be
a shard of a logo discernible on the fella's cap. The digital image pixellates
too much when we blow it up for a closer look, but, hands-on with it, is it
identifiable if you use a magnifying glass? Knowing which team the guy
was with would surely narrow down his identity...

[GoldenAge50s]

I completely forgot about that 2015 thread! WOW! Thank You for remembering & bringing it up!

[GoldenAge50s]

--from a long-time member who agrees it's NOT Duke Snider-believes it to be Willard Marshall, which was also put forth in the old threads.

Personally, I think Willard Marshall is the very BEST possible ID so far, just lacking the picture pose as proof!

Chime in if you have any thoughts at all, please!

[Butch7999]

Same guy, blown up and bleached out, in the B/S/T...
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=267563

[cubman1941]

I posed the same question a few years ago and the consensus was that it was Willard Marshall.

[GoldenAge50s]

Thanks Jim---that is some reinforcement of opinion!

Butch--That posting is what caused THIS thread. He won't waiver on his claim of Duke Snider, but he offers no proof. My proof that it ISN'T Duke is based on the "ear match" ID theory, but that's all I have either.

[Butch7999]

Fred, we hadn't seen the blurry-bleached-blow-up version before, so we thought
it might be relevant to the discussion.
We, too, are sure it's not Snider, but we're not at all confident it's Marshall either.
Some resemblance to both, yes, but not indisputably convincing to the six eyes here...
Can it be (has it been) determined what's on the front of his cap?

[sflayank]

not even close to willard marshall
not freddie fitzsimmons
duke snider.....yes

[nolemmings]

Delete

[GoldenAge50s]

Originally Posted by sflayank

not even close to willard marshall
not freddie fitzsimmons
duke snider.....yes

I remember you had a bunch of these charms, so what says " it's the Duke" to you??

[bigfanNY]

Looking at the picture for the first time today. First thing I notice is that player is a New York Giant. based on hat and piping on uniform. So I don't see how this could be The Duke of Flatbush..

[sflayank]

If I remember correctly its the same picture from his eureka stamp

[CobbSpikedMe]

It's definitely not the same image as Duke's Eureka stamp.



.

[sflayank]

The face

[nolemmings]

No. Not Snider.

[HRBAKER]

Agree, doesn't look like him at all

[sflayank]

No wonder people cant Id criminals
Faces are identical

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by sflayank

No wonder people cant Id criminals
Faces are identical

Bullshit.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Larry, while I highly respect your knowledge of vintage, especially oddballs, I have to say you're way off on this one. Those two faces don't look anything alike.

[Jim65]

I'm sorry, there is no way that's Duke Snider.

[perezfan]

Ridiculous conversation. Those are two distinctly different people.

[HRBAKER]

No wonder so many people are wrongly imprisoned.

[GoldenAge50s]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Looking at the picture for the first time today. First thing I notice is that player is a New York Giant. based on hat and piping on uniform. So I don't see how this could be The Duke of Flatbush..

Thank You Jonathon--a couple of us were waiting for a cap ID--I never thought it was a Dodger, but didn't know what team it was!

Re: the Eureka stamp--Duke's face is much more "elongated" than the charm face--notice the distance above the eyes the eyebrows are in each pic. I agree w/ MOST everybody--it's not even close to being Snider.

C'mon Bums1953--chime in here and help out!

[Butch7999]

Kinda thought that was a Giants cap, but couldn't tell for sure.
Taking it as fact that it is a Giants player, then, here's the charm image
presented quite inexpertly (but repeatedly!) alongside pics of some other
late 1940s-1951 Giants (plus Freddie Fitzsimmons, last a Giant in 1937,
and of course a pitcher, but previously suggested as a candidate)...



We know who we'd vote for, and we're 50.1% confident in our choice.

[sflayank]

Not close to any of those guys

[GoldenAge50s]

Yvars doesn't look too bad, but he's a righty all the way. I still like Willard the best. Some of the others are pretty obscure to be on a charm, I would think!

[sflayank]

With 100% certainty that is not a giants home or road Jersey from 49-52

[bigfanNY]

In 1949 the Dodgers changed from their uniforms with double piping to a single pipe. So if it is Duke Snider what year uniform is he wearing? The player in the charm dose seem to be wearing a giants uniform from the 1942 to 1948 period.
But you can see in this 1949 photo that the bat boys still had double piping who knows when each team stopped using them in spring training? And compared to Snider pictures it dose not pass the ear test which is probably in this case most relevant. Not trying to argue just trying to identify pic.

[sflayank]

1949 -52Dodgers had single pipe at home double pipe road uniforms
1949-52 giants had single pipe
Since the charms are from 1950
Unlikely a giant
It may not be the Duke?
But no way is it Willard marshall

[Butch7999]

What's to say the photo was taken the same season the charms were produced, or the preceding season?
Even Topps repeatedly re-used years-old photos on their 1950s cards. Why expect a higher standard from
whatever company made the cheaply-produced charms with their blurry, grainy, badly-cropped images?
The pic could be from the 1930s, for all we know right now. Are we even certain the charms were made
in 1950, and not 1952 or 1948 or...

[sflayank]

Let's leave it to the experts to find the original photo

[GoldenAge50s]

I believe the SCD BIG Book called them "1950's Charms", but 1950 just seems to be a year settled on by Charm Holders/Sellers. I recall they were in those penny gumball machines from maybe 1948-49 thru possibly '51 or '52.

They definitely span BOTH sides of 1950, I can assure you of that!

[GoldenAge50s]

Could this be our guy?

[sflayank]

Very possible
The stance is right
but the face is not the same
Dale Mitchell

[cubman1941]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Very possible
The stance is right
Dale Mitchell

Except that in the Big Book I have (2008) Dale Mitchell isn't listed.

[nolemmings]

I don't see the resemblance, and it's obviously not the same picture.
My two cents:
I believe it is more likely a right-handed batter being shown in follow through than a lefty hitter. It seems to me more probable that in these "action" poses a lefty has his bat up and either on or over the shoulder, and not in mid or check-swing mode. Hardly scientific I know, but that's how I see this one-- a righty having completed his swing and watching where the ball went rather than a lefty watching the pitch coming in and focusing on making contact halfway through his swing.

[GoldenAge50s]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

Except that in the Big Book I have (2008) Dale Mitchell isn't listed.

As for the BIG Book, the charm listing is far from correct or complete.

[GoldenAge50s]

I certainly agree that it could be a righty & may be a reason we haven't found the original photo so far.

If we could come up w/ some more possible names I'm convinced we could find the photo that fits!

[midmo]

In my opinion that is not Duke Snider.

[GoldenAge50s]

--that seems to be the overwhelming opinion! Now we need "who it IS"!

[cubman1941]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

As for the BIG Book, the charm listing is far from correct or complete.

Rog that but does anyone have a complete listing? Probably impossible.

[GoldenAge50s]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

Rog that but does anyone have a complete listing? Probably impossible.

What makes that tough to do is (1) every so often I see a new one, and (2) I have run into some I thought were new, but turned out they were hand-cut from a pub & not a real mini-photo on Kodak paper.

[midmo]

I would guess Mickey Witek, but haven't found the original image yet so I'm not sure.

[GoldenAge50s]

If it turned out to be Witek, he would be the most obscure player on a charm. I don't think I've ever heard of him.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

If it turned out to be Witek, he would be the most obscure player on a charm. I don't think I've ever heard of him.

Yeah, seems like an odd choice to me too, but he had a good season before the war. Maybe he was a popular player in New York trying to come back. Before my time...

The jawline, ears and eyebrows match to me, but who knows.

[sflayank]

Close but not the same

[midmo]

Originally Posted by sflayank

Close but not the same

Just curious, why do you say that? Just a guess?

[sflayank]

for one thing not the same jersey