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View Poll Results: Shound Barry Bonds and/or Roger Clemens be inducted into the HOF?
Bonds - in 78 50.00%
Bonds - OUT 78 50.00%
Cemens - in 76 48.72%
Clemens - OUT 77 49.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Neither did Lance Armstrong.....Or at least he never failed any after the Nike people talked to the UCI people.
Armstrong admits it, Clemens denies it.
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's the same old tired debate, but the same people who get all sanctimonious about roids still revere guys who popped amphetamines like Aaron and Mays.
Ruth ate hot dogs. That's my kind of guy.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2017, 12:36 PM
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I think it's interesting that the "yes" votes are tracking in tandem with the BBWAA.
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  #24  
Old 12-20-2017, 01:49 PM
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Clemens-NO, Bonds-NO
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Joe Jackson's transgression was much worse. He participated in a plot to throw the World Series to gamblers. No comparison...although I would probably vote for Joe to get in.
Strongly disagree. .375/.394/.563/.956 5 runs 1 HR 6 RBIs 0 errors in 8 games. If that is "throwing" the World Series, then Bonds "threw" 3 NLCS with his .191 BA and 3 RBIs in 20 games.
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Strongly disagree. .375/.394/.563/.956 5 runs 1 HR 6 RBIs 0 errors in 8 games. If that is "throwing" the World Series, then Bonds "threw" 3 NLCS with his .191 BA and 3 RBIs in 20 games.
I know Jackson had the great stats which leads one to believe he changed his mind along the way. But he did take money from the gamblers, didn't he? The first installment was split among the eight players.

Look, I don't condone cheating and personally hate it. But I also hate the incredibly mediocre players that are getting into the Hall in the place of the tainted superstars. Trammell and Morris were fine players but debatable for entry. I guess it's just my general disdain for the HOF.
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
I know Jackson had the great stats which leads one to believe he changed his mind along the way. But he did take money from the gamblers, didn't he? The first installment was split among the eight players.

Look, I don't condone cheating and personally hate it. But I also hate the incredibly mediocre players that are getting into the Hall in the place of the tainted superstars. Trammell and Morris were fine players but debatable for entry. I guess it's just my general disdain for the HOF.
Hi Barry,

Then Jackson should be punished for stealing money but let's assume he did participate in throwing the series, despite his stats saying otherwise, we are comparing a player's indiscretion over 8 games compared to those who cheated over several hundred games.

Maybe it is time for us to accept that there are really very few superstars in the game who are not cheating but that should not mean we look the other way for the guys who did cheat to become superstars. Bonds was HOF material before he used. I don't think we should be acknowledging his (or anyone else's) accomplishments knowing he broke the rules to achieve them.

Greg
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The market is not correcting that was a pretty lo-end example. Had a stain on back and very poor focus and centering plus historically, prices tend to dip before the National.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's the same old tired debate, but the same people who get all sanctimonious about roids still revere guys who popped amphetamines like Aaron and Mays.

I'm not understanding the greenies argument at all. You can still take the modern equivalent of greenies and play right now so long as you have a prescription. You can't take HGH or anabolic steroids at all, prescription or not. It's not an apt comparison.

Last edited by packs; 12-20-2017 at 04:06 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Well, aren't you assuming that Clemens did it? As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), he never failed a test.
Maybe after a four year stretch in Boston where he was 40-39 with an ERA around 4 he discovered the Canadian Fountain of Youth. Just as plausible I guess.

At the end of the day these guys decided to do what they did, they were already greats. Those of us who think no didn't make them do it. They have already enjoyed all of the good things that flowed from it, the adulation, the fame, the contracts and the mockery of the record books. Now they are left to deal with the baggage.

I am certain they will get in.
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
I'm not understanding the greenies argument at all. You can still take the modern equivalent of greenies and play right now so long as you have a prescription. You can't take HGH or anabolic steroids at all, prescription or not. It's not an apt comparison.
Using amphetamines without a prescription became a federal crime in about 1970. Do you think the pile of greenies in the clubhouse until baseball banned them in 2006 (I think that's the right date) was all by prescription? So we're cool with players who committed a federal crime repeatedly, but not with players who used HGH?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-20-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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