Should Anonymity be allowed on the board?

[Leon]

Jerry brought up a few good points in his last post, in the other thread, pertaining to anonymity on the board. Personally, I sort of wish there wasn't any, and could "make" it that way, but I always like to solicit opinions. There has never been a real persuasive argument to mandate "not" allowing public anonymity. Also, with the registration process the way it is, and me requiring blood according to one member (which I thought was an idiotic statement, but whatever) it is much safer than the old board. All of that being said I would like to get current views. I am not saying it will change, and I still think the current rules are good, but it rarely hurts to solicit opinions. Thanks in advance for your professional responses and thoughts....best regards

[V117collector]

Seems this thread should have a poll and let the numbers speak for themselves!

[E93]

Would I have to go on the record with my response to this question?
JimB

[carrigansghost]

I don't think a name needs to be attached to each post as long as the post is not confrontational and Leon has the information on file. Some of the bantering back and forth is quite amusing on a grade school level.

Rawn

[cfc1909]

No-Look at Bond73-you can still fly under the radar. I don't see any reason not to put your name with your post.

JR cfc1909

[Leon]

Recently I found that I can in fact see the votes behind the scenes. I was unaware of that feature before. The voters won't be made public in this poll. Maybe we should have a poll to see if the poll should be anonymous?

My personal feeling has always been that we shouldn't allow anonymity but the rules allow for it in non-controversial or non-opinionated threads/posts. If we DON'T allow any anonymity some folks might not post, which would be a shame. As already mentioned I do have everyone's contact info as part of the registration process. We have already seen that be a big help on a few occasions (Bond73). And I am not naive enough to think that process is foolproof either...but it's a heck of a lot better than before AND if I find any foul play I can boot the person registering.....regards

[Rob D.]

Too ... weak ... to ... type ... waiting ... on ... transfusion ... of ... O-positive ... so light-headed ...

[Matt]

I'm assuming the argument for allowing anonymity is that there are those who contribute to the forum who would not do so if they were required to expose their name for all to see. While I certainly would appreciate it if everyone at least exposed their first name, I'm OK with allowing anonymous posts for the additional content it brings to the forum. I can think of several good threads that may never have taken place if real names were required to be exposed (e.g. Skydash).

[sgbernard]

If the board is about baseball cards, and it should be, then there shouldn't be a need for anonymous posting. It's mostly the OT stuff or the threads that go wildly OT that devolve into name-calling and anonymity. I can't see a reason for it under the stated purpose of the board.

[Mr. Mitt]

Like I noted in the other thread, I have not disclosed my last name on this forum (Leon has it, though) for the sole purpose of separating my hobby and my profession when my name is searched on the web. Though not a household name, it is well respected in my industry and I want it to remain that way. I'm not saying that the association with baseball memorabilia would taint my name, but it is my choice to keep them separate from each other if at all possible. Though I love my hobby, my livelihood takes precedence. If full name disclosure becomes mandatory, I will revert to permanent lurker.

Jerry

[DaveH]

I voted no but after reading Leon's last post I can think of several well known collectors who might not want to post with their name out front. So in retrospect some anonymity might be ok subject to Leon's oversight.

DH

[barrysloate]

I voted an unequivocal "no." I realize there are others who prefer anonymity but I see no reason for it. We're not working on the Manhattan Project here, it's just baseball cards, and I find it frustrating that most of the time I have no idea who I am communicating with.

[Leon]

To me you make a very persuasive argument to keep things the way they are.....but I do like to solicit feebback for a few different reasons. It's sort of like.....

Ok, we have a rule, and can I be persuaded to change it? Would you consider giving a pint of blood?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Jerry,

How would you feel about the third option in the poll? This would allow fellow collectors to know who you are, while simultaneously avoiding having your name come up in association with the message board in internet search engines. I was a solid "NO" until I read your post in the other thread. It was because of you that I suggested the third option to Leon. As Barry said, we're not splitting the atom here!

[dstudeba]

I agree with Jerry and take it one step further. Though I do not keep my identity a secret from members of this board, I do not want business associates, clients, or employers to know about my association with this board and hobby unless I tell them.

There are cases on this forum where arguments/attacks/bantering can look very bad to an outsider. There are also cases where outright falsehoods are stated about people which could adversely affects a person's professional and/or personal relationships.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I find it frustrating that most of the time I have no idea who I am communicating with.

I voted no also. I think people should be required to put their real name under their user ID so you at least have an idea who you are talking with.

[barrysloate]

The one defense I accept for anonymity is that if one Googles his name, posts from this board will show up. I think there are easy ways to prevent it.

If I am not mistaken, if I added a period or two and identified myself as "Bar.ry Slo.ate" wouldn't that keep my name out of standard searches?

As far as arguments such as Mr. Mitt made that posting on this board would adversely affect his business, you lost me. Why? Post intelligently (not saying you don't) and it may even enhance your image. People will see that you are knowledgeable, and that can only help. I actually made the decision that by offering information I was actually enhancing my business, not taking away.

[Doug]

For the people worried about their names coming up in searches a first name could be required with the last name being optional.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

As far as arguments such as Mr. Mitt made that posting on this board would adversely affect his business, you lost me.

There are several instances on this board where arguments have included questioning or belittling another member's ability in their profession.

Edited to add: This practice is the primary reason I post less than I used to.

[wonkaticket]

On the fence...

But agree with Jerry 100%, Leon has our info that should be enough do we really need the guy with bad teeth getting a hold of someones business number and calling us up because you butt heads with someone.

Besides all it takes is one person with a grudge. For what some of you guys call a no big deal to become a real nightmare dont think I'm right Google Leon's name....

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=leon+luckey

People know who I am at least the people I want to know that is.....that should be enough. In the end what do we really know about folks on here other than we all like cards...you really want anyone on here to know your business or home address????

My gut feeling Leon has enough of our info to protect us from blind posting..

Also not me but I'm sure some folks work for other folks and may post or check the forum while at work...hate to have somebody's boss pull them in and say Barry Sloate I thought you were working on those TPS reports at 2:13pm today...not discussing Pud somebody!

[barrysloate]

I don't even know what a TPS report is...I'll just say I was busy putting paper clips on piles of papers, and removing staples with my handy staple remover. After all, isn't that what most people do in an office anyway?

[wonkaticket]

People who post on here, folks who post pickups of 4-5 figure cards and pics of their kids and loved ones..please put your full name and contact info next to your post....So I can google you later...perhaps I'll stop by your home or business for coffee sometime.....

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

"...do we really need the guy with bad teeth getting a hold of someones business number and calling us up because you butt heads with someone."

Or, do we really need to belittle and poke fun of everything and everyone, or could we pick ourselves up by our seats and try a more professional approach (note the "we" )?! John, while I applaud most of your recent actions, I do think it fair that, for you to go on record with certain statements should also require your full name to be added to each post. Anonymity and accusation make strange bedfellows, even if your opinion is the one I side with! Your point is quite valid, but so is mine.

[Mr. Mitt]

Originally Posted by Doug

I voted no also. I think people should be required to put their real name under their user ID so you at least have an idea who you are talking with.

I respectfully disagree with both Barry and Doug. How would my last name attached to a post add anything pertinent to a thread? For the sake of a forum such as this, they're simply letters on a heading above written thoughts and opinions. If I were to write Jerry Jones or Jerry Smith or Jerry Simpson, would that give you an idea of who you're talking with? No, it wouldn't. As a matter of fact, surnames don't tell you anything about a person that is pertinent to this hobby. A well thought out username, however, can. I chose Mr. Mitt. That tells you much more about my collecting interests than my last name ever would.

I do, however, understand the need to know who posts here so another Bonds73 fiasco doesn't take place. I believe Leon has taken the appropriate steps and precautions to limit and quickly rectify a situation such as this if it were to ever arise again. I have no problem providing any information required to the forum owner, as long as it is held in confidence and only used if my actions are illegal or belligerent toward another.


Jerry

[Mark]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I don't even know what a TPS report is...I'll just say I was busy putting paper clips on piles of papers, and removing staples with my handy staple remover. After all, isn't that what most people do in an office anyway?

Barry
There are new cover sheets on the TPS reports. Didn't you get the memo?
M

[Doug]

I'm not so much worried about full names as much as just having a first name. On the board as well as the chat room, I think it would be nicer to be able to have a name to go by instead of having to refer to people by their user id.

[GoldenAge50s]

I think there at least be a first name and last initial available, if not on the post at least in the Profile.

As Barry says, quite often I have no idea who I may be replying to, so I click on Profile & find nothing there either, so I don't bother replying at all.

It seems to me having at least a first name gives a bit of credibility to any post--even if it's a bogus name!

[wonkaticket]

Jodi my full name is known by most and Leon has all of my contact information and if I ever cross the line into bad land I'm sure Leon will use my info correctly. In fact Leon and I talk from time to time as well.

Do I need you to know my entire info heck no...no offense I don't know you from Adam. And I don’t need to know all of yours either Jodi.

"Anonymity and accusation make strange bedfellows, even if your opinion is the one I side with! Your point is quite valid, but so is mine."

Don’t accuse anyone of anything Jodi, posted an email where Kevin admitted in his own words to shady stuff, called out a bogus sign and helped bring to justice a counterfeiter in Chan. No accusations just facts you draw the conclusion.

This forum is not anonymous Leon has our information there is no real reason for everyone who pops on here to know all about everyone it serves no purpose.

More bad can come from full open disclosure than the system that's already in place.

Nothing against the guy with the bad choppers but I don't think he needs my phone number and full name, or as some folks have said to know about their business outside of the hobby. We have seen many times before on this board when people have personal information on you they get personal.

Lichtman is accused of getting killers off, Leon is a drug dealer, Jim Crandall has a huge loss with Lehman it's just not cool.

So if you’re offended by the teeth joke just imagine the personal attacks that follow when forum members get to know you a little better Jodi….

P.S. I think I'll be going on record soon with Jim and I in the upcoming Old Cardboard mag on the Chan case...my full name will be in there is that on record enough for you? Also when I worked with the FBI on Chan pretty sure I was on record they also did the standard background check so I think I'm plenty on record at this point.

[cfc1909]

Very good reasons are posted for anonymity and I think they have changed my mind. Leon has the info and that should be good enough. Leon just has to make sure the info is good. example-Scott Bob

JR cfc1909

[Mark]

"This forum is not anonymous Leon has our information there is no real reason for everyone who pops on here to know all about everyone it serves no purpose. "

This is true enough, John. And, as others have said, I, too, prefer that those who know me professionally remain unaware of m interest in baseball cards et alia.

In my view, the best policy is to keep things steady as she goes.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

"No accusations just facts you draw the conclusion."

Accusation, fact; although they ARE words with different meanings, semantics come into play in this instance. Either way, you are bringing the actions of others to light in a public forum. As stated, I think that's fine if it serves an honorable purpose. People do have a right to know the identities of those who make bold statements. Is there any middle ground where most would be happy? I'm certainly open to suggestion at this point, whereas I was not originally.

I find that anonymity is detrimental to the degree of seriousness in which a public forum is to be considered. For instance, let's say a well-known dealer/auctioneer posts something using his real name. Three people using aliases decide to post scathing/snarky/accusatory replies. Is this fair to all involved? Regardless, it's immature and dampens the air for the rest of us.

I was only using a couple of your cases as examples because I was quoting something you wrote and said instances are of recent memory.

[wonkaticket]

Mark we have a meeting with the "Bob's" in 20 are you coming?

[Leon]

Again we see eye to eye......I want to solicit more opinions but the ones that are "for" allowing anonymity are strong enough, in my mind, to not change the current rules. As I tell folks over and over....our rules are time tested. Almost every single time we review a rule it comes out that it is a good rule, even if not the absolute most popular. I am still open but am leaning towards letting the rule on anonymity be the way it is....I still think this thread is very valuable in letting folks have the other points of view. As I told someone this morning, via email, the best thing I got out of college was understanding that, even though I can't imagine how something I feel so strongly about could be different, intelligent people/friends might have other views AND they might actually make more sense than my own!! best regards

[Leon]

In your last scenario I would divulge those names to the one being accused of something or ragged on. If those names and numbers turned out to be false then I would ban that person(s). ...... This is a tough call....but my last response sums up my feelings at this moment. regards

[Mr. Mitt]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

Very good reasons are posted for anonymity and I think they have changed my mind. Leon has the info and that should be good enough. Leon just has to make sure the info is good. example-Scott Bob

JR cfc1909

Holy $#*%!!!! I flipped Jim... the whole system is going to fall ! ! !

Similarly, I agree that at least a first name should posted along with a username so people know how to address each other, so I've added my first name to my profile.

It's a tough question to answer, not everyone is going to be happy with everything. Debate and the free exchange of opinions is a good thing, though.


Jerry

[wonkaticket]

Yeah but Jodi there are no real places for anyone to hide. Leon has done a good job to get folks info for the very reasons you outlined.

He just keeps that info to himself until it is needed etc. You want all the info on the table and I see no need.

The fact is if anyone really wanted to fiind out about any of us one could easily do so. But I see no reason to make it so easy as to anyone passing thru can say ahhh Jim Thompson just bought himself a 100k set I wonder if it's the same Jim Thompson who lives at 100 Evergreen Terrace etc. it must be the phone number matches.

Hey let's google earth him wow nice house....see where this is going.

Most of the time it's harmless but what about the one time it isn't?

Or the day when someone gets heated and says hey Jodi don't you have burgers too flip at Burger King vs. posting on here (not saying you work at Burger king and if you do hook me up!)

But trust me if folks know it will go there sooner or later...

[makersmarkambassador]

I voted no, but I can see why this is a touchy subject. I put my full name in all of my posts. Always have and I always will. I voted no because I do not have a problem putting my full name in posts. I think being anonymous is fine, but once a subject becomes heated or other issues arise, then posters need to be identified.

[wonkaticket]

I guess what I’m trying to say is we’re not all mature enough to handle that kind of pressure…LOL

With great information comes great responsibility…

If I know you are a male dancer in an all male dance review (Chippendale’s) because I googled you and found your facebook page….and you post in the BST

“I’m looking for a really nice Johnson somebody please help”

Please don’t put me In that position because I’ll have to make a joke….it would kill me not too!

[Jacklitsch]

While I may have an idle curiosity about who three25hits is, with his snarky posts, or dstudeba, whatever that is, or Wonkaticket, now there's a handle for you, it really doesn't matter to me whether someone is anonymous or not.

Me, I'm not so important that I have people out there searching me on google so I have no problem with people knowing who I am.

[T206Collector]

I have never understood what value a name has versus a handle. I only go by T206Collector on here. Many of you know my first name, which is alright, I guess, but who cares -- and why does it matter to anyone? As long as the user relies on a consistent name, there is no confusion as to "identity".

If I told you my name was Fish or Fred, what is the value in either? This is an internet chatboard.

[barrysloate]

This is one of these issues that we will always have differing opinions. I just made the decision years ago that I would include my name, and stand behind all of my posts. If I say something inflammatory I'm willing to take the heat for it. If I am fortunate enough to express a wise opinion, then hopefully I will be looked upon kindly. But I chose from the start not to be anonymous.

[dstudeba]

Barry -

The difference between what you are saying and what I am saying is that you are talking about your own posts whereas I am talking about other people's posts. I cannot control what other people on the board say, so I choose to not post personal information.

[barrysloate]

Dan- I know there is a lot of fighting that goes on, but it's usually among lawyers. My best advice is don't become a lawyer, and you will do fine.

[dstudeba]

Good one Barry, my attorney has advised me similarly.

[Mr. Mitt]

Steve... Even if you searched me on Google, you still wouldn't have any idea who I am. It's not an issue of fame or vanity, it's simply an issue of privacy. Let me pose a few scenarios for everyone. Though probably unlikely to occur, you can't say, given the world today, that these situations are impossibilities:

-A perspective client searches your name and, along with your professional data on the web, views a substantial amount of information about your involvement in baseball memorabilia. The client finds it juvenile and goes elsewhere.

-You work for a conservative firm and they, given the current economic conditions, are looking to downsize. They perform background checks on employees that include cursory web searches. They see your involvement in this hobby and 1) think you're spending too much time on outside interests and let you go or 2) see what you have recently purchased on a thread and decide that you have enough disposable income where letting you go won't adversely affect your lifestyle.

-A lurker on the forum reads that you have recently won an expensive item in an auction or you reference an item you already have and, because full names are mandatory, he easily locates your home via the web. Perhaps a burglary ensues or a kidnapping.

Outlandish? Perhaps. But not out of the realm of possibility. I, for one, will chose privacy each and every time because, above all, my family's safety and my livelihood are of the utmost importance. This is a just hobby and more than enough personal information is provided to the people in charge. If something illegal is done, this information should be used appropriately. If you are a "member" in good standing, you should be able to remain anonymous if you so chose, for whatever reason, without having to justify it to the community.

It's been mentioned that this isn't like splitting the atom. I concur, wholeheartedly. It's a hobby, plain and simple. Actually, this forum is a side effect of a hobby. If I were to prioritize my interests, as mentioned earlier, family and profession would top the list. My interest in memorabilia would be a several notches below that. Further down the list would be this forum. That's not a low blow to Leon or the rest of you. We all can still enjoy this hobby without the forum. Hell, most of us fell in love with this stuff long before the internet came along. This forum is an enjoyable outlet loaded with information, but not necessary to collect trinkets. I am afraid that a substantial portion of people would cease to post if anonymity were to become mandatory.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

This is one of these issues that we will always have differing opinions. I just made the decision years ago that I would include my name, and stand behind all of my posts. If I say something inflammatory I'm willing to take the heat for it. If I am fortunate enough to express a wise opinion, then hopefully I will be looked upon kindly. But I chose from the start not to be anonymous.

My point is that since this is an internet chatboard, your decision to "stand behind" all of your posts is really just a decision to remain consistent with a collection of letters that happen to spell "Barry Sloate". You are as much a real person on here as anyone who posts under the same assumed name every time.

[wonkaticket]

Jerry 100% on the money.

Or what if you employed dozens of folks and recently denied a few raises around the office due to business being down as a whole...but a few employees stumble upon this forum and an item you won out of your own savings.

Wouldn't be hard for a few workers to become upset and think he can afford Ty Cobb cards but not my raise!

This kind of stuff could affect ones business and or someone’s work environment if one works for someone else does Bob really need that raise? He seems to be doing just fine I dont have 10k to spend on a silly baseball cards says employer to himself and he needs a raise?…

And Barry we all decided to not remain anonymous when we reregistered with Leon for this forum we provided him an email and number. Much more than we ever had on the old Net54...

[barrysloate]

But if I say "the sky is blue" I want people to know that Barry Sloate said it, not just some guy on the internet. In that sense I am a real person. I'm encouraging others to form an opinion about me. If it's a good one, it will be beneficial for me down the road.

I would hate to be the guy who unlocked the mystery of the universe, and nobody knew I was the one who figured it out.

[barrysloate]

John- I hear what you are saying. Having never had a job myself, I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to office politics.

[Leon]

I don't think Barry S is just a bunch of letters behind a screen. Actually he has a lovely wife and was a great host when I went to New York a year or two ago. I stayed with him for a few days and had a simply wonderful time. I felt sort of like I was on Seinfeld (being in NY and all)!! The hobby was fine before the internet, or this board, and it would be fine without them. As I mentioned I think this thread has validated our anonymity rule and has also shown a few members there can be a different, intelligent reason, or way of thinking other than their own. Rarely is anything "black or white". This is one of those cases.....thanks for all of the good responses so far. best regards