Larry Fritsch Collection

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Posted By: peter chao

We all see those print ads about the large Larry Fritsch inventory of cards. Besides his inventory, does he actually collect? Has anybody actually heard about or seen his collection of prewar vintage cards? If so, what type of cards are in this collection?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Sean

I belive he has 2 T206 Doyle - NY Nationals and a Thorpe Tin Top.

I would imagine he has a very nice personal collection, which I think parts will be coming up in future auctions.

Sean bh

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I recall at one time Larry opened a museum to show his collection. I first bought cards from him as a kid back in 1973. Complete 4th series since I couldn't find it in town.

Ricky Y

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Posted By: Jay

Larry has one of the great collections in the country.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Larry's collection is epic from all accounts. Though Mastro is selling unopened from his warehouse, I have seen no mention of any of his personal collection being sold.

That would be a true hobby event.

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Posted By: Chris

I have seen it and it is amazing. He has the only two known 32 Caramel Fred Lidstroms, a Wagner, two Doyles and stuff that many people have never seen.

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Posted By: peter chao

You actually saw the collection. Did you get a personal invitation or was the collection open to the public for a while?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Jason

I remember he bought 4 Fleischman bakery cards off of me for ungodly prices. THere were all P and without coupons. The Joe Wood has team name change writtnen on the front as well. He paid me several times NRMT standard price for these. When I asked him why, he told me they are going into his personal collection. I would assume he must have one hell of a collection.


Jason

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Posted By: Bob

In the middle to late 1980's he bought the entire personal collection of dealer/collector John England of Fort Smith, Arkansas. At the time England had the largest known (or second largest according to Mark Macrae) Zeenut collection in the world. England also had complete sets of all the caramel cards and tobacco cards (T206 less Wagner etc.) that you could shake a stick at. I assume Larry still has these cards which, alone, would mean he has a tremendous collection. I know he has accumulated tons of cards besides these so his collection must be fabulous. I think from all the rumors I have heard that it would be greater than the collections of Lionel Carter and Frank Nagy, at least from the standpoint of completeness. When everyone and their brother began buying all his store inventory Zeenuts and he put a freeze on, he asked to speak with me and after a long talk and being convinced that I was indeed a collctor of the 1911 Zeenuts and not a flipper, agreed to sell me many of the cards before the entire balance went out the door to an unnamed dealer. The 40-50 Zeenuts I bought from him were all in great shape, many had the overprinted stamp on the back and almost all were creaseless with the only flaws being a touch of corner wear or a single small number written on the top back in fountain pen, like a code done by some collector many, many years ago.
I think sometimes that we forget about the "old-time" collectors when we speak of collections and cards and I can tell you that two of the most interesting conversations I have had were with Larry Fritsch and Wayne Varner. I have never met Gar Miller but hope to some day. I also wonder if Lew Lipset maintained his private collection during the years he has been a dealer, if so I bet it too must be something.

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

Peter,
I was a grader for SCD Authentic starting in 2001 and was the designated person to go to Larry's and grade his cards at his warehouse.

He is a true collector and a great guy.

His inventory is mind blowing.

The stories he told me were amazing.

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Posted By: peter chao

Chris,

I do remember some of SCD grading's ads picturing Larry Fritsch holding up a SCD graded card. I thought SCD had a great idea when they offered to both grade the card and then sell the card online for customers. It's too bad the idea never caught on.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

He is a very active bidder on EBay for items he needs

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

Peter,
Yes... It was too bad SCD Authentic never took off. I truly believe that our standards were as good as any other grading company, but we just entered the game too late.

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Posted By: Jason L

what could he possibly need at this point?

I'll bet it would be nice to be the seller if he needs something!

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Any idea whether the majority of Larry's vintage cards are graded or ungraded?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Zinn

Here's what Larry wants.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160163959861

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Posted By: Tom Russo

I believe that Larry Fritsch bought a building on Chestnut Street in Cooperstown where he displayed part of his collection in a "baseball card museum" I guess it didn't catch on as a tourist attraction. I think it may have been ten years ago or more that I visited it. It was amazing. I heard his name come up in town recently, so he may still own the building.

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Posted By: peter chao

Joe P. mentioned the museum to me. Joe knows a heck of a lot about vintage cards, sometimes though, he would start an argument when it wasn't necessary. Joe would have been a heck of an attorney.

Peter C.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

When I was a teenager in Wisconsin, a local tv newscaster got a brief tour of his warehouse. I don't remember much of it, other than there were these metal vault like doors.

I bought my first Pre-War card, a 1933 Goudey Quinn, from the Frisch catalog.

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

The majority of his cards, when I worked with him at least, was ungraded...

Larry is a traditional collector and isn't a big fan of professional grading.

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Posted By: Larry

The slabs looked great but they were grading a bit too harshly. I busted some of the cards out that graded 6 and 6.5 sent them to PSA where they all got an upgrade to 7 and in a few cases an 8. I remember telling Steve Bloedow that unless they stopped dragging the final grade all the way down to the lowest subgrade, especially on pre-war vintage, the company wouldn't last very long. Turned out to be prophetic.

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

Larry,
I think that since we jumped in the game so late that many people assumed we would grade cards easier... I have been told by many people that we were right in line with PSA...I have also heard from people that shared your thoughts as well.

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Posted By: Fred C

Speaking of SCD graded cards - I used to search those cards out because I knew the grading standards were very good and if you picked up an SCD graded card there was a pretty good chance that it'd cross over to PSA or SGC for a higher grade.

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

... and you knew the cards were legit... that was the frustrating part I had to deal with. We really took pride in "doing it right," but we ended up folding.

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Posted By: peter chao

Chris,

How big is Larry's warehouse? From what people have said he must have millions of cards.

Peter C.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Why does one company's 7 have to equal another company's 7?

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Posted By: peter chao

It doesn't, but it sure makes it easier for collectors.

Peter C.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Are the PSA/SGC grades 1-10 accurate for what the grades are supposed to represent? Is there a point where SGC is calibrating it's 7 to match or 'better' PSA's 7, and visa versa, that a company's 7 no longer represents Near Mint?

Do collectors ever feel that, for a grade or condition, that a company's grade no longer, or often doesn't, represent what the grade is supposed to be, perhaps due to numbers competition with other companies?

What does the change in a grading company's standards over the years represent? (ala a PSA 7 today is different than a 7 12 years ago).

Irrelevant to alteration issues, what does the Wayne Gretzky T206 Honus Wagner having the same numeric grade as in 1991 represent? Does this represent consistency in grading or how numbers, number scales and comparing number scales is in and of itself a commodity?

Beyond authentication and alteration detection, should a grading companies' main concern be how it's numbers line up with the numbers of it's competition?

What does PSA collectors liking the toughness of PSA grading, but resubmitting cards for higher grades represent? Is it that they like the perception that PSA is tough?

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Posted By: Chris Nerat

I agree. One company's 7 doesn't necessarily have to be the same as another's... Also, we had half-grades, kind of like Beckett.

I do think that each company should be in the same ballpark though... Like one member said, it makes it easier for the collector.

The Fritsch warehouse that I was in was pretty big. I would imagine that 1 million cards could fit in there.

He still has lots of vintage unopened material and tons of singles.

It really was amazing.

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Posted By: Glen Turner

tbob:
I was the second collector to visit John England in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, the first was Bill Haber in 1967.
Mr. England had an amazing collection. He had two sets framed that he kept on the wall one was the 1933 DeLong set and the 1915 Cracker Jack set.
Regarding his Zeenut collection, I know it was over 5000 different cards.
Two of my favorite sets that he had that I liked was a completely autographed 1953 Bowman set and a 1952 Topps set lacking 5 cards autographed.
I lived in Poteau, OK a town about 35 miles from Mr. England. I even had a card that he needed for his collection a 1948 Signal Oil card. A kid in Poteau had a grandmother in Oakland that sent him those cards.
I remember looking at his T3 set and really liking it, so he sold me two for my collection a Homerun Baker and Fred Clarke. If I remember correctly I gave him a quarter a piece for them.
I remember him opening up a cabinet that had several hundred Old Judge cards lined up in a couple of rows or so.
He said for years in the 1950s and 1960s that Wirt Gammon would box up just hundreds of amazing cards and send to him and he said he usually bought them all. Personally I did buy 600 T206 cards from Mr. Gammon for a quarter a piece and that included plenty of Hall of Famers around 1971.
I remember when John England sold his collection. There were three people who looked at the collection Larry Fritsch, Bill Mastro, and I can't remember who the other part was. He sold it to Fritsch because he offered him twice as much as either of the other two collectors.
Oh, to be young again and go back and really look at Mr. England's collection would be a dream come true.

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Posted By: Paul S

Great story(ies) Glen, thanks!

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Posted By: Rand

Stories like that are awesome, this is what really makes the hobby come to life for me, the "finds" of cards and their provenances. thx for sharing.

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Posted By: peter chao

Glen,

Great story, I have difficulties imagining that many vintage cards, but I'm grinning from ear to ear.

Peter C.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for sharing the story....Us young hobby pups live vicariously through them....take care