T206 DRUM guide and UPDATED checklist

[tedzan]

As difficult as the T206 DRUM cards are to find, there are "rules of thumb" to predict if a certain subject was printed with the DRUM back. The following rules
can be used as a guide.

350-only series

There are 190 subjects in this series that were printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 frame back (circa..Summer of 1910). My "A-B-C-D" theory (see NOTE)
suggests that these 190 subjects were also printed with the BROAD LEAF 350, CYCLE 350 and DRUM backs. For the greater part, this has been proven true for
the BROAD LEAF 350 and CYCLE 350 cards. However....to date....only 107 subjects in the 350-only series have been found with the DRUM back. Recent DRUM
finds these past several years have added new DRUM's to this tally. Eventually, I expect that we will find the outstanding DRUM cards.

Subsequently, I will post the confirmed lists of the AB 350 and DRUM cards in this series.


350-only series example

350/460 series example


350/460 series

The AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (AB 350) cards in the 350/460 series were printed without the frame. We have confirmed 37 of the subjects in this series with this
AB 350 back. It appears that American Lithographic also printed these 37 guys with DRUM backs. To date, 34 have been confirmed with the DRUM back. The 3
outstanding subjects that have yet to be discovered (and, I fully expect they eventually will appear) are......

Conroy (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Stahl (glove)

Subsequently, I will post the confirmed lists of the AB 350 and DRUM cards in this series.



NOTE....A-B-C-D stylistic pattern




For more info on this A-B-C-D pattern, check-out these two threads......

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...eaf-cycle-drum

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...eaf-cycle-drum




T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

DRUM backs confirmed......total = 143


350-only series subjects........... 107 cards

Abstein
Adkins
Arellanes
Armbruster
Atz
Barbeau
Jack Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Becker
Bescher (portrait)
Burke
Carr
Casey
Charles
Clark
Congalton
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dineen

Donovan (throwing)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Egan
Engle
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Freeman
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Hartsel
Hallman
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter

Jackson
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone
Maddox
Maloney
Marshall
McAleese
McBride

McGann
Milan
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Providence)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Pickering
Purtell
Quinn

Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schmidt (portrait)
Scott
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Starr
Stephens
Strang
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
Taylor

Thielman
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett (bat)
Zimmerman


Six Super-Print subjects............ 2 cards (I have yet to see the four " ?-marked " subjects with DRUM backs....although, I think they were printed)

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait).................. ?
Chase (dark cap)....................... ?
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky).......... ?
Mathewson (dark cap)................ ?


350/460 series subjects........... 34 cards

Baker
Bender (no trees)
Burch (fielding)
Crawford (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)

Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


Note

I do expect that the following 350/460 subjects will eventually be discovered with DRUM backs....since these 3 were printed with AB 350 (no frame) backs:

Conroy (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Stahl (glove)



TED Z

[tedzan]

AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 confirmed lists






350-only series AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 frame............190 cards

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Anderson
Arellanes
Armbruster
Arndt
Atz
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milw)
Batch
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain

Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carr
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chappelle
Charles
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Clancy
Clark
Clymer

Cobb (portrait-red)
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Egan

Engle
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Fletcher
Freeman
Fromme
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)

Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)

Kroh
Kruger
Laporte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Malarkey
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mathewson (dark cap)
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
Mc Elveen
McGann
McGinley

McGinnity
McGlynn
McIntyre (Detroit)
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Milligan
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Providence)
Moriarty
Mullin (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes
Oberlin

O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelan
Phelps
Phillippe
Pickering
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (hands/chest)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm

Schlafly
Schmidt (portrait)
Schreck
Scott
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens
Strang
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielmann

Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman






350/460 series AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame)............37 cards

Baker
Bender (no trees)
Burch (fielding)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lake (no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Wagner (bat on right)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


TED Z

[Cardboard Junkie]

As usual, your t206 knowledge amazes me. I for one deeply appreciate your sharing your research. I hope someday to contribute a small bit of info to the t206 arena. Dave.

[Craig M]

Ted,

It's very interesting!

It appears that there is only (1) unconfirmed CYCLE 350 subject to match your theory; that being DUMMY TAYLOR and a bunch of BROADLEAF 350 unconfirmed subjects (24) to be exact.

I believe it shows that BL 350's are harder to find than CYCLE 350's and it's just a matter of time that the BL350's are found.

Craig

[Blitzu]

Ted, awesome work as usual... Mighty impressed.

I have a theory too... A D-B-C-A theory, That it's nearly impossible to find a Drum for sale at a reasonable price, followed by Broad Leaf, then Cycle and finally AB.

[tedzan]

Thanks guys for the compliments.

Given that these DRUM's are so scarce, the intent of this thread is to provide a guide to inform you if your favorite T206 exists (or can be found) with a DRUM back.

Now, I would really appreciate it if some one on this forum can find me a blue portrait Hal Chase with a DRUM back.....so, I can complete my "Quintuplicate" sub-set.
I've been searching for a Chase / DRUM since 1984, when I acquired my first T206 DRUM card (Moeller).



.



.



TED Z

[atx840]

One can dream Ted. Photoshopped.

I'm close with Hofman, need a BL. Anyone

[tedzan]

Hey Chris

I re-sized your images....printed them....and, cut and paste them. Then placed this "paper Chase"
next to my real blue Chase cards.

It will suffice until .....

Take care,

TED Z

[ethicsprof]

great work!
i note that you mention that your first Drum was a Moeller.
Interestingly, my first Drum was also a Moeller!!!
all the best, ole buddy

barry

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

great work!
i note that you mention that your first Drum was a Moeller.
Interestingly, my first Drum was also a Moeller!!!
all the best, ole buddy

barry

Hey good buddy....it's a small-small world......when identical scenarios occur regarding the same T206 DRUM card


Best regards,

T-Rex TED

[Abravefan11]

At this point I don't believe the A+B+C+D rule is concrete. I think it's a good way to look at the 190 subjects from a broad perspective but it isn't a hard and fast rule for every one of the subjects.

I'm skeptical that all 190 subjects were printed with Broad Leaf 350, and even more skeptical that they all were printed with Drum 350. I believe most were, but not all.

When it comes to the 37 print group 3 subjects that were printed with AB350NF, 34 have been confirmed with Drum 350. As scarce as Drum's are it's certainly possible that the other three could still be confirmed, but my belief right now is that they were not printed with a Drum back.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

At this point I don't believe the A+B+C+D rule is concrete. I think it's a good way to look at the 190 subjects from a broad perspective but it isn't a hard and fast rule for every one of the subjects.

I'm skeptical that all 190 subjects were printed with Broad Leaf 350, and even more skeptical that they all were printed with Drum 350. I believe most were, but not all.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
However, to date, with 190 subjects printed with the AB 350 (frame)....189 subjects with CY 350....166 subjects with BL 350....and, the scarcest of this A-B-C-D series,
DRUM 350, having 107 subjects, I'd say your skepticism is moot.
In fact, I'd say it is indicative of that ole "not invented here syndrome".

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

When it comes to the 37 print group 3 subjects that were printed with AB350NF, 34 have been confirmed with Drum 350. As scarce as Drum's are it's certainly possible that the other three could still be confirmed, but my belief right now is that they were not printed with a Drum back.

My research indicates that every AB 350 (no frame) subject that was printed with a BROAD LEAF 460 (BL 460) back will also be found with a DRUM back. Therefore,
let's consider the three AB 350 (no frame) subjects that have yet to be confirmed with the DRUM back......

Conroy (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Stahl (glove)

Conroy & Mullin both were also printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back. Therefore, due to my "mutually exclusive" rule, I do not expect these 2 subjects to be
found with the BL 460 back....consequently there is a slim (or no) chance that they were printed with a DRUM back.

On the other hand, the Jake Stahl has been confirmed with the BL 460 back. And, I will bet that Stahl will eventually be found with the DRUM back.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

In fact, I'd say it is indicative of that ole "not invented here syndrome".

Actually I suffer from "that information doesn't jive jibe" syndrome.

Ted - My opinion that the A+B+C+D not being a hard and fast rule isn't something new. I sent you a detailed email in 2010 explaining why I was skeptical of it. You said it was a lot to digest and that you would get back to me. Between then and now there haven't been the number of new Broad Leaf or Drum confirmations necessary to change my opinion, and you haven't gotten back to me. So for now I remain skeptical and my opinion is moot.

Any similarities between the AB350 (No Frame) subjects that were also printed with BL460 is mere coincidence. The two backs were printed with different groups of subjects and at different times. Coincidences between cherry picked subjects, from two different groups, will only lead to false conclusions. Even if Stahl is eventually confirmed with a Drum 350 it will just be a coincidence using your comparison.

[DerekMichael]

Cool thread Mr. Z. I love those Drums!

I know have seen a couple of Evers (CHI), but it was well out of my budget.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Between then and now there haven't been the number of new Broad Leaf or Drum confirmations necessary to change my opinion, and you haven't gotten back to me.

Have you forgotten the two considerable DRUM finds by Legendary Auction (Ron Oser) in St. Louis since 2010 ?

And, very recently a smaller DRUM find. All of which together contributed quite a number of new DRUM's that were added to our confirmed list.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Have you forgotten the two considerable DRUM finds by Legendary Auction (Ron Oser) in St. Louis since 2010 ?

And, very recently a smaller DRUM find. All of which together contributed quite a number of new DRUM's that were added to our confirmed list.


TED Z

Not at all.

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Between then and now there haven't been the number of new Broad Leaf or Drum confirmations necessary to change my opinion, and you haven't gotten back to me. So for now I remain skeptical and my opinion is moot.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by DerekMichael

Cool thread Mr. Z. I love those Drums!

I know have seen a couple of Evers (CHI), but it was well out of my budget.

Hey Derek

Nice to hear from you. Tell your Dad that I will be calling him early next week.

Best regards,

TED Z

[Craig M]

Philadelphia Ted,

You are a hard guy to track down. Can I please have your attention and forgive me if this is not the thread to ask but are you still set on T206 sheets that consist of 12 cards wide?

I recently purchased a card of Walter Johnson (Por) that has a Sweet Caporal 350 #30 reverse with the Factory 30 anomaly at the bottom of the card.

My question for you is (just speculation): How many of these Factory anomalies were printed on a sheet?

Craig

[DerekMichael]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Derek

Nice to hear from you. Tell your Dad that I will be calling him early next week.

Best regards,

TED Z

Sounds good. Don't be a stranger Mr. Z!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Craig M

Philadelphia Ted,

You are a hard guy to track down. Can I please have your attention and forgive me if this is not the thread to ask but are you still set on T206 sheets that consist of 12 cards wide?

I've always thought that the T206's were printed on sheets comprised of 12 cards across a row by N number of rows. For example sheets as large as 108 cards (9 rows
of 12 cards each). If you do a SEARCH you will see that I have posted numerous threads on Net54 regarding my theory. It is logically based on the standard (18" x 24")
size sheets of cardboard of that era....lithographic printing press track widths (18" or 19")....and, the factor 12 is congruent with the Series structure of the T206 set.

Originally Posted by Craig M

I recently purchased a card of Walter Johnson (Por) that has a Sweet Caporal 350 #30 reverse with the Factory 30 anomaly at the bottom of the card.

My question for you is (just speculation): How many of these Factory anomalies were printed on a sheet?

Craig

I've only seen #25 or #30. These numbers 25 or 30 coincide with the Sweet Cap Factory number of the cards printed on the sheet. The number was most likely printed
on the edge of the sheet so that the jobber (who cut down the sheets and packaged the cards) at American Lithographic could at a quick glance identify which Sweet
Caporal tobacco factory to ship the cards to.


TED Z

[Craig M]

Sir,

I appreciate your valued response and I received the info that I was looking for so that my research can continue.

Respectfully yours,

Craig M.