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  #1  
Old 08-03-2006, 09:31 AM
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Posted By: Bob

Requiem for a Rookie Card
How baseball cards lost their luster.
By Dave Jamieson
Posted Tuesday, July 25, 2006, at 6:31 AM ET
Last month, when my parents sold the house I grew up in, my mom forced me to come home and clear out my childhood bedroom. I opened the closet and found a box the size of a Jetta. It was so heavy that at first I thought it held my Weider dumbbells from middle school. Nope, this was my old stash. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of baseball cards from the 1980s. Puckett, Henderson, Sandberg, Gwynn, and McGwire stared back at me with fresh faces. So long, old friends, I thought. It's time for me to cash in on these long-held investments. I started calling the lucky card dealers who would soon be bidding on my trove.

First, I got a couple of disconnected numbers for now-defunct card shops. Not a good sign. Then I finally reached a human. "Those cards aren't worth anything," he told me, declining to look at them.

"Maybe if you had, like, 20 McGwire rookie cards, that's something we might be interested in," another offered.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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"Have you tried eBay?" a third asked.

If I had to guess, I'd say that I spent a couple thousand bucks and a couple thousand hours compiling my baseball card collection. Now, it appears to have a street value of approximately zero dollars. What happened?

Baseball cards peaked in popularity in the early 1990s. They've taken a long slide into irrelevance ever since, last year logging less than a quarter of the sales they did in 1991. Baseball card shops, once roughly 10,000 strong in the United States, have dwindled to about 1,700. A lot of dealers who didn't get out of the game took a beating. "They all put product in their basement and thought it was gonna turn into gold," Alan Rosen, the dealer with the self-bestowed moniker "Mr. Mint," told me. Rosen says one dealer he knows recently struggled to unload a cache of 7,000 Mike Mussina rookie cards. He asked for 25 cents apiece.

For someone who grew up in the late 1980s, this is a shocking state of affairs. When I was a kid, you weren't normal if you didn't have at least a passing interest in baseball cards. My friends and I spent our summer days drooling over the display cases in local card shops, one of which was run by a guy named Fat Moose. The owners tolerated us until someone inevitably tried to steal a wax pack, which would get us all banished from the store. Then we'd bike over to the Rite Aid and rummage through their stock of Topps and Fleer.

Card-trading was our pastime, and our issues of Beckett Baseball Card Monthly were our stock tickers. I considered myself a major player on the neighborhood trading circuit. It was hard work convincing a newbie collector that Steve Balboni would have a stronger career than Roger Clemens. If negotiations stalled, my favorite move was to sweeten the pot by throwing in a Phil Rizzuto card that only I knew had once sat in a pool of orange juice. After the deal went through, my buddy wouldn't know he'd been ripped off until his older brother told him. He always got over it, because he had no choice: Baseball cards were our common language.

In the early 1990s, pricier, more polished-looking cards hit the market. The industry started to cater almost exclusively to what Beckett's associate publisher described to me as "the hard-core collector," an "older male, 25 to 54, with discretionary income." That's marketing speak for the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. Manufacturers multiplied prices, overwhelmed the market with scores of different sets, and tantalized buyers with rare, autographed, gold-foil-slathered cards. Baseball cards were no longer mementos of your favorite players—they were elaborate doubloons that happened to have ballplayers on them. I eventually left the hobby because it was getting too complicated and expensive. Plus, I hit puberty.

It's easy to blame card companies and "the hard-core collector" for spoiling our fun. But I'll admit that even before the proliferation of pricey insert cards, I was buying plastic, UV-ray-protectant cases for my collection. Our parents, who lost a small fortune when their parents threw out all those Mantles and Koufaxes, made sure we didn't put our Griffeys and Ripkens in our bicycle spokes or try washing them in the bathtub. Not only did that ensure our overproduced cards would never become valuable, it turned us into little investors. It was only rational, then, for the card companies to start treating us like little investors. The next wave of expensive, hologram-studded cards didn't ruin collecting for us—we were already getting too old for the game. It ruined baseball cards for the next generation of kids, who shunned Upper Deck and bought cheap Pokémon and Magic cards instead.

This year there are 40 different sets of baseball cards on the market, down from about 90 in 2004. That's about 38 too many. When there were just two or three major sets on the market, we all had the same small pool of cards. Their images and stats were imprinted on our brains. The baseball card industry lost its way because the manufacturers forgot that the communal aspect of collecting is what made it enjoyable. How can kids talk about baseball cards if they don't have any of the same ones?

Seeing as the cards I once prized now fetch a pittance on eBay, I decided not to sell my collection. I figure my Boggs rookie is worth more as a keepsake of my card-shop days than as an online auction with a starting bid of 99 cents. The worthlessness of my collection gave me an idea, though. The card manufacturers and the Major League Baseball Players Association have launched a $7 million marketing campaign to remind a generation of children that baseball cards exist. Instead of spending all that money to tell kids that cardboard is cool, Topps and MLB should convince everyone that cards are worthless, suitable for tacking to the wall, flicking on the playground, or at least taking out of the package.

In that spirit, the other day I opened three Topps packs that I'd stowed away as an investment in the late 1980s. I even tried the gum, which was no staler than I remember it being 20 years ago. And as I flipped through my new cards hoping to score a Mattingly, I felt that particular tinge of excitement that a generation of kids have missed out on.

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  #2  
Old 08-03-2006, 11:00 AM
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Posted By: Chad

On top of that, I won't even get into how much Macaroni and Cheese and Jiffy Pop Popcorn I ate, or how many Slurpees I sucked down because they offered cards. It'll come back, though. My nephew likes baseball cards more than baseball, I think. Topps and Upperdeck just need to get their products back in the corner shops and supermarkets so the kids can beg their parents to buy them a pack or two.

--Chad

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  #3  
Old 08-03-2006, 11:46 AM
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Posted By: DJ

Cards from the era are like roaches. I have seen advertised in newspaper five times in the last three months of an estate sale with a mention of "baseball cards". I hope to hit the mother load, pristine cards from the turn of the century! My own major find! After all, the house is from 1910, right? But as usual, I come up disappointed as I see 3200 count boxes full of 1980's and 1990's trading cards. Stacked up high.

Always a tease.

DJ

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  #4  
Old 08-03-2006, 11:59 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

We all know the world has changed drastically in the last few years and many of us who are older really do feel that life was simpler and more fun when we were kids. I was so lucky to grow up in the sixties and listen to all the great music from that period. Today kids have 50 cent and Brittney Spears. And they can keep them. The fun we had opening packs of cards is a lost art today. And to some extent I think the Beatles are too. Part of collecting is holding onto a piece of the past and to some degree we are all doing just that.

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  #5  
Old 08-03-2006, 12:40 PM
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Posted By: Bob

Amen, Barry, amen. It's hard to explain to a youngin' how we used to puzzle at whether or not to buy 5 penny packs with one card but one slab of pink gum in each or buy a nickel pack and get 8 cards but only piece of that delicious gum! I miss that gum. Pink slabs covered with that white powder.
As far as music, give me the Stones, Beatles, Doors, Animals, Beach Boys, Hollies, Kinks, Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding, 4 Tops, Dylan, Rascals, etc. any day of the week. THAT was music. Whenever I fondly wish I were still young, I remember the times I went through and am glad that I lived when I did.

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Old 08-03-2006, 12:45 PM
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Posted By: James Feagin

I grew up in the mid-eighties and some of my fondest memories surround these pieces of cardboard that are now worthless. I remember the utter jubilation of ripping a 1986 Topps box for $12 after saving my allowance for 6 weeks. I stuffed that stale gum in my face left and right, it was a feeling I never wanted to end. I remember staying up HOURS the night before the Columbia, Maryland Hilton show. In those days, most of my peers collected everything. Sportflics, 1986 Topps, 1952 Topps, t206, Goudey, whatever it was, we collected it. In 1992 the wax pack died, I was 17 and moved on to girls. I came back 7 years later, but it was never exactly the same. As for music, I could write articles and volumes (I already have), about consumer culture and music's death as an art-form. The 1980's, my childhood, was listening to the Smiths (I grew up a complete Morrissey wannabe) while ripping 30cent packs of cards. Conniving my mom to by endless amounts of Drakes, M&Ms, Meadow Gold, Jiffy Pop, Honeycomb cereal, it wasn't a tough sell at all.

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Old 08-03-2006, 12:58 PM
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Posted By: Steve M.

as my wife works for a facility for mentally challenged adults. They just love the slickies and every week or so she'll take in an 800 count box and pass them around. Hasn't made a dent yet as the boys did quite a bit of collecting in the 80's and 90's.

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Old 08-03-2006, 01:08 PM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

are the folks at the National who either (1) had tables full of the shiny crap or (2) were spending good money on the shiney crap. Don't they know they are throwing good money after bad? I am amazed that Topps, etc., still have sales of $250 million. Their product takes a 90% nose-dive the moment it is sold. If there is a set I happen to like in a given year, I wait till next year and buy it collated and complete for ten bucks or less. And while I miss the gum and that smell, I can get it for a few cents with a pack of Bazooka.

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  #9  
Old 08-03-2006, 01:28 PM
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Posted By: Brett

It kind of reminds me of when i use to buy baseball and hockey card packages in 1990 - 1992 when i was about 6 years old, and finding out that the were so mass produced, that the value is like 1 cent per card lol. that was when packs cost about 25 cents. not now, when you have to pay like $15 for a pack of 5 cards, just becase you might get a ****ty jersey card of a no name ball player....

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Old 08-03-2006, 01:34 PM
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Posted By: Sean

I have a cousin who is one of the larger shiny basketball card dealers and the only thing I can compare it to is fad collecting. Some of these cards he has come from packs that cost $50+ (WTF?), and are worth $20,000 today...next year the next Lebron James comes around and last years cards lose their value.

This is the way it was in the mid-nineties when all the baseball companies started pumping out the inserts, they were all the hot cards...until something new came out.

I was talking to my cousin about the National and he does a brisk business, and when we talk about cards he doesn't really understand my collecting...but I don't understand his world either.

Interesting - http://cgi.ebay.com/03-04-Exquisite-LeBron-James-Scripted-Swatch-Auto-23-25_W0QQitemZ220009469544QQihZ012QQcategoryZ56125QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sean BH

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Old 08-03-2006, 01:53 PM
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Posted By: dennis

i don't want to generalize too much but most vintage bb collectors want to preserve that historic past of the game. while still enjoying baseball as it exists today. while the collectors of modern cards enjoy the game as it is now and don't care about the history of the game. kind of like history in general,either you love it or could care less.

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Old 08-03-2006, 02:03 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

We must be the same age (I'm 54) because we listened to exactly the same music. I might throw in the Yardbirds and Buffalo Springfield, but why quibble.

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Old 08-03-2006, 02:14 PM
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Posted By: Jason

newer cards are just like the American automobile!!!
one of the finest lessons one can learn about personal finance is to not buy new cars....never thought about it, but it turns out the same can be said for baseball cards!!!
I'm almost 35 now, and I identify with several of these posted memories about the 1980s, the wax packs, the gum, etc...I hope some of it comes back and becomes more affordable to attract the kids again...because I want lots of folks around in 30 years that are interested in what I may want to sell!

Just to give you some perspective on my level of addictive and anal retentive personality, I have very fond and vivid memories of sitting on the family room floor after attending a card show, having just bought 2 boxes of 1987 Topps rack packs...I was excited not just by the amount of cards I was about to open, but also about the prospect of cracking some packing patterns that I thought might exist in those packs...sure enough, I wrote down all the sequences, and to this day, I can tell you what the next 3 cards are under the top card under any rack pack cello for the most worthless year of Topps baseball cards ever printed!!!!
Good times.....great lessons learned...

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Old 08-03-2006, 02:26 PM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Jason,
I'm glad I'm a little older than you. I still have my rack/cello sequence book from 1976 thru 1987. I can't tell you how many Ripkens, Mattingly's, Boggs, Goodens, and Clemens I pulled, but I do know they helped pay for most of the vintage cards I was purchasing back then. I'm glad I didn't sit on 1000 of each, but I did save 20 to 50 of each that are still worth quite a bit slabbed.
Too bad I KEPT to many Cory Snyder and Gregg Jefferies.......



Be well Brian

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:02 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

With low prices for ungraded 1980s cards, one will complain the cards don't sell
for much, and another will rejoice he can purchase cards that interest him for
cheap. The former is interested in money, the latter is collecting as a hobby.

I have everyday people contacting me about identifying and dating items. It is
expected that they will be curious about value, but I always prefer price to be
their third or fourth question, not their first.

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:31 PM
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Posted By: Bob

Barry- I can't believe I left off the Yardbirds (Page, Beck and Clapton) and of course Buffalo Springfield with Stephen Stills and Neil Young and Jim Messina. Outstanding. REAL music.

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:34 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Did you know that when the Yardbirds broke up Jimmy Paige was given the band which he then called the New Yardbirds. He brought in an unknown singer, bass player, and drummer, and in time realized the band was heading in new directions. So he dropped the name New Yardbirds and changed it to- Led Zeppelin...and the rest is history.

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:40 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

It lead to the bloated corpse that rock became in the 70s. Thank gawd for punk or music would have been a real waste land in the 70s.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:44 PM
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Posted By: Anonymous

wow...This talk has brought back some great memories. Ginger Baker and Cream, Jim Crose, Pink Floyd, Wishbone Ash, Humble Pie, Starship, J. Geils, Harry Chapin, Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars( David Bowie), Jethro Tull. I could go on.

People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:44 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Zeppelin was the best 70's band and closest to the sixties in spirit- their first and best album was 1968- but can't say anything bad about the Ramones, Clash, and others.

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Old 08-03-2006, 03:46 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Yep Cream was pretty great too. Saw them live at MSG. Sorry this is getting so off topic, but I can go on all day. Pull the plug when you've heard too much.

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Old 08-03-2006, 04:02 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

...now is the time to acquire all of the 1987 Topps Danny Tartabulls, Kal Daniels, Pete Incaviglias, Mike Greenwells and Will Clarks imaginable. They will be oh so cheap and I will RULE THE WORLD!!!

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  #23  
Old 08-03-2006, 04:21 PM
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Posted By: David McDonald

Will you tell us your name then?

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Old 08-03-2006, 04:48 PM
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Posted By: leon

So there I was at the National (and btw, to me it was pretty good) and I had already looked at each table with vintage about 5x. I decided to try to find out what the folks collecting new stuff were doing. I stood next to one guy looking through piles of the stuff. I just stood there a few minutes watching and wondering....then left, still not knowing what they are doing? I have said all along that collecting ANY baseball cards is good...but like the first post says....I would hate to have spent a lot on them....regards

edited for spelling

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Old 08-03-2006, 05:43 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I was lucky enough to see the Ramones and Talking Heads at CBGB's and Adam Ant at the Mudd Club. Also saw the Stray Cats at the 700 Club in Manhattan and Kieth Richards showed up and jammed with them. For those from SF, I used to hang at the Mabuhay Gardens and The Stone. Saw Black Flag, Dead Kennedys and other great punk bands there.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Old 08-03-2006, 06:08 PM
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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Was, about 1968, for a short time, in a group whose drummer was Joey Ramone, then known as Jeff Hyman from Forest Hills in Queens, NYC. Used to rehearse in his parent's basement. Did a grand total of (almost) one show (by that time I had already bailed, wisely or unwisely) at which I was told Jeff/Joey got s..t-faced, puked and the show had to be cancelled. My "brush with greatness".

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Old 08-03-2006, 06:09 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Never went to CBGB's even though I was working in the Village and going to NYU grad school in the 70's. My haunts were Fillmore East and Boston Tea Party (which was on Landsdown St. in Boston right behind the Green Monster).

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Old 08-03-2006, 06:43 PM
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Posted By: Bob

3 greatest concerts I ever went to: Doobie Brothers, Springsteen and Crosby, Stills and Nash (when they were young and so was I).
Most regretted band never to have seen in concert-easy, The Doors.

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Old 08-03-2006, 06:55 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Bob- I saw the Doors in 1968 when they were already a bit past their prime; however, I hate to say this but in June 1967 I was at a concert at the Fillmore East when it was still called the Village Theatre and the acts were: the Doors, the Blues Project (Al Kooper's band), the Chambers Brothers, Richie Havens, and Janis Ian all on the same bill. I saw most of the show and then the Doors came out and began with "Soul Kitchen". At that very moment my parents came into the theatre, found me, and after fighting with them and having the whole audience turn around to see what the commotion was, dragged me home. I was 14 and it was the worst night of my life. Don't even ask the details. But I did hear one song. My best concerts were the Beatles twice, Jimi Hendrix, Concert for Bangladesh (yesterday was the 35th anniversary)which included Bob Dylan, the Dead in 1969, the Jefferson Airplane at the Fillmore, Mothers of Invention, and god knows how many more. I thought it would last forever, but nothing ever does.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:29 PM
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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Barry,

If you were a regular at Fillmore East, you might remember the Anderson Theater, a couple of streets down the avenue from the Fillmore. Also had the rock acts of the era, but didn't last very long, which I at least partly attribute to the non-payers who used to sneak in via down the alley and up the fire escape, in waves.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:32 PM
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Posted By: jackgoodman

Will try posting this again.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:34 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Nope, don't remember the Anderson. The Fillmore was 2nd Avenue and 6th Street. How close was it?

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:36 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I am familiar with that website. I think it's all Bill Graham's old stuff, being offered for sale at far too high a price.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:38 PM
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Posted By: David Smith

Barry, just think if you had got and kept the concert posters and broadsides from those concerts. You could have sold them and used the money for your baseball collection.

Did they sell t-shirts back then or did that come in the 1970's??

Also, what was the Hendrix concerts like???

I have only talked to one person who actually saw him in concert and he said it was loud and different. He couldn't concentrate on the show because his girlfriend kept begging him to leave because of the "loud noise that N****r on stage is making".

He said if he knew Hendrix wasn't going to be around much longer, he should have either not brought the girl or told her to leave so he could enjoy the show.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:41 PM
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Posted By: jackgoodman

You guys are going to love this link:

http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/

When you get there, click on "vault radio", then "play now", sit back and enjoy.

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Old 08-03-2006, 07:54 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

No T-shirts in those days, but the posters were pretty cool. I saw Hendrix Feb 3, 1968 at Hunter College, in case you want to google it. Frank Zappa was in the audience- we saw him in the lobby when we walked in. The band the Association was also in the audience, and I think they were introduced and stood up to applause. The music was great, mostly from his first album, and the one song I distinctly remember was "Red House." I too had no idea as did anybody that he wasn't going to live very long, and of course I never saw him again.

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Old 08-03-2006, 08:22 PM
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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

The Anderson was on the other side of 2nd Ave., between 3rd and 4th streets.
Hosted the first NYC appearence of Big Brother and the Holding Company.

.

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Old 08-03-2006, 08:49 PM
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Posted By: Alan

Barry -

I think the Yardbirds are playing in a 300 seat venue in Virginia this month.

Alan

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Old 08-03-2006, 09:05 PM
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Posted By: John Barnes

It's hard to argue with what the modern collectors are doing when they bust a $2000 pack of Exquisite and pull a Lebron James RC Auto Patch /99 and sell it for $200k.

John

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  #40  
Old 08-03-2006, 09:39 PM
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Posted By: jeff j

Jack Thanks for mentioning wolfgang's vault. Did anyone see the story of this on the CBS Sunday morning program 3-4 weeks ago?

Wolfgangs's vault is the website for the guy who bought the Fillmore promoter Bill Grahams entire collection (7-8 $mil) of tickets, posters, contracts and other artifacts and they sell all this historic rock stuff on the site! Bill Graham saved EVERYTHING, there are over 1 million tickets alone!!! It's taken them 3 years to catalog all the stuff!

And get this - they own 6500 color concert films from all these concerts in the 60's-90's at the Fillmore, Winterland etc... many of which they haven't even had time to review yet. Someday, maybe we'll all get a chance to see those films if they are put out on DVD from classic concerts back in the day. They have them all from Hendrix to Zeppelin to Skynyryd, to Dillan to Springsteen to....

It's way cool. Maybe we can see these someday and SHOW our kids and grand kids what it was like. I was too young to see the 60's stuff but heard it was great.

There was and still is NOBODY that can touch Zeppelin in total ability to deliver so much great, tasteful, powerful and subtle rock on one album. Nobody.

Jeff J

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Old 08-03-2006, 09:43 PM
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Posted By: jackgoodman

They plan to start selling cd's with live concert recordings in October. I'm saving up. But seriously, for you guys that love not only this music, but hearing the raw live concert recordings - click on the Vault Radio link now. (ps: Wolfgang was Graham's real first name.)

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Old 08-03-2006, 10:07 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Zep never did anything for me. Pink Floyd, The Clash and Prince were far better. Brian Setzer (Stray Cats) and Danny Elman (Oingo Boingo) are pretty good too. Those 2 produce a great array of music styles.

Jay

A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn, that was fun."

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Old 08-03-2006, 11:56 PM
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Posted By: Bob

Alan- Somehow I don't think Eric Clapton and the boys are playing with this imitation group. It reminds me of when Credence Clearwater Revival was thought to be coming to town and it turned out to be a clever play on words which sounded like and had the same initals as CCR but played homages to the group, and of course no John Fogarty and the other Fogarty.
The Temptations are still touring even though all but one of their original members are dead and they even lost some backups along the way.

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Old 08-04-2006, 04:08 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

The Anderson is sounding vaguely familiar as I think about it, but I never went there. It would be great if all the concert footage became available from Graham's collection. Some of them have to be gems.

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Old 08-04-2006, 05:41 AM
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Posted By: Alan

Bob - Of course, it's not Clapton & the original members. I'm not sure who the "Yardbird" guys touring are nowadays...

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Old 08-04-2006, 06:32 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Only original member of the Yardbirds who is no longer living is vocalist Keith Relf. He electrocuted himself while playing guitar in his basemant in 1976. That's a true story.

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Old 08-04-2006, 07:30 AM
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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

http://www.themarqueeclub.net/the-yardbirds

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Old 08-04-2006, 07:31 AM
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Posted By: leon

Since we are here....in '79, while in the Marine Corps, I saw Jefferson Airplane "introducing Grace Slick". It was at the Hollywood bowl. That was the absolute best show I have ever seen....and with my frame of mind it was really, really good that night .....oh to be young again....best regards

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Old 08-04-2006, 09:22 AM
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Posted By: Richard Masson

Actually, in 1979, they would have been Jefferson Starship. The "white rabbit" era was over ten years before. If you can still listen to "We built this city" without gagging, you must be deaf.

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Old 08-04-2006, 09:49 AM
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Posted By: leon

That was the irony.....and they played all of their old songs.....(maybe I am mistaking but I thought it was Airplane....regardless it was awesome)...and Grace was Grace at her best....

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