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  #61  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:25 AM
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Lordstan Lordstan is offline
Mark V.
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1) The OP should not have to put the word "autograph" in his title as it's an autograph forum.

2) I have no sympathy for the person banned. He knew it was against the rules, even stating that he would get banned, and did it anyway. Actions have consequences. He should have to live with his.

3) Leon can have whatever rules he wishes as it's his board.

4) Personally, I am glad we don't have a politics or religion subforum. Like others have said, knowing how people think, outside of the collecting area can often ruin the interactions we have within this specific area. Considering how much malice is currently out there, i prefer not to have any extra spill over.

5) The real tragedy is the fact that people don't seem to be able to discuss things calmly anymore, like Jim said. Sure, it's easy to point out the extremes like using Hitler or the Nazi's, in general, but the reality is that even far far less malicious things cannot be discussed anymore.

For some reason, it seems that emotion has melded with logic and reason to the point that attempting to logically discuss differing views becomes incredibly hard. It seems that every disagreement is taken as a personal attack. Once someone perceives it to be personal, they respond in kind and then the whole conversation falls apart. Politics and religion seem to be the two worst subjects, but it even happens talking about sports stuff. I know for a fact that some people will not post opinions about autographs because they fear that their opinions will come under attack instead of debate. Often times, my responses are wordy(like this one) because I really try to take the time to make my responses as unemotional and neutral as possible. I want to make my point without anyone taking my words as an attack or insult.

I hope that one day we can return to a time when people could just agree to disagree without venom. Where me having an opinion that is different than yours does not mean that I think you're stupid for having yours. Where we can have respect for each other and respect for the value of free and open discourse even for things we disagree with. For without that free and open discourse, we will slowly revert back to the dark ages when only those in power controlled what people are allowed to think.

[soapbox off]

Mike, Sorry for the ramble. If I knew anything about Trump's sig I would help you, but I do not. Best of luck with them
Mark
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:16 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
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Mark,

I was going to post a rant about what an ass you are and how stupid your post is but I was afraid nobody would get the humor...
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  #63  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:10 AM
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Lordstan Lordstan is offline
Mark V.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Mark,

I was going to post a rant about what an ass you are and how stupid your post is but I was afraid nobody would get the humor...
Shame. That would have been pretty funny.
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My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress).
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy

Other interests/sets/collectibles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums

My for sale or trade photobucket album
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
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  #64  
Old 08-06-2018, 11:49 AM
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Runscott Runscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordstan View Post
I hope that one day we can return to a time when people could just agree to disagree without venom. Where me having an opinion that is different than yours does not mean that I think you're stupid for having yours. Where we can have respect for each other and respect for the value of free and open discourse even for things we disagree with. For without that free and open discourse, we will slowly revert back to the dark ages when only those in power controlled what people are allowed to think.

[soapbox off]

Mike, Sorry for the ramble. If I knew anything about Trump's sig I would help you, but I do not. Best of luck with them
Mark
I think it's just taking a really long time for internet discourse to evolve to where it somewhat resembles real life discussions. We've seen a lot of positive change over the last twenty years as moderators have learned techniques for keeping their forum discussions civil, and as people have gotten over the fun of flaming others, creating straw men, etc - basically, bad behavior techniques that you couldn't get away with face-to-face.

We're not there yet and probably won't ever be, but lots of slow improvement over the years.
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  #65  
Old 08-06-2018, 02:59 PM
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drcy drcy is offline
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With the great "Us and Them" divide, I'm reminded of the story:

During the Cold War 1960s, a group of Midwestern American citizens went on a trip to the Soviet Union. After returning, they were asked by the press for their impressions. They said their biggest surprise was to learn that the Russians citizens were "just normal people, like us."

Most political arguments are stupid and embarrassing to watch, which is why I completely skip them, and few, even in person, know my politics. Reasonable, reasoned debates with intelligent people of other political viewpoints are welcome with me. I like to hear different takes and reasonings-- and I know there are different legitimate ways to look at issues and problems, often based on different but legitimate priorities. However, I have an allergy to strawman arguments, cognitive biases and fallacies, zealotry, schoolyard namecalling, predetermined conclusions looking for evidence, etc-- and, yes, they come equally from both sides.

I was raised that the first person to call the other a name lost the debate, because, in a debate, you resort to name calling when you can't think of a legitimate counter-argument.

Last edited by drcy; 08-06-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  #66  
Old 08-08-2018, 12:45 PM
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Stampsfan Stampsfan is offline
Bob Davies
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Extremely well said. Have the maturity to enjoy a reasoned debate or discussion, and be mature enough to actually listen to a differing opinion. You may learn something, and keep your friends.
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  #67  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:17 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardSimon View Post
Since I do not want to be banished I will keep my opinions about Trump to myself, FB and my circle of family and friends .

But Leon, I do belong to a photography forum which has a section called The Attic. You can post anything in there that you want to including politics, religion, sex, drugs and rock n roll, etc. Whoever wants to read those posts can and if you do not want to read about those subjects you just avoid it.
that's great that you have a place to post about politics so you don't need to do it here
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  #68  
Old 08-08-2018, 05:19 PM
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calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
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This was signed in person by Trump and his wife. Their signatures vary.





And here's Ivanka, also signed in front of me:

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