Ron Santo!

[sayhey24]

Congrats to Ron Santo for his HOF election -- it's a shame it didn't come while he was alive to see it.

Greg

[Cy2009]

Greg,

I was listening to MLB radio and Al Oliver was quite upset that Santo didn't get to see his enshrinement. Those sports writers have no soul. We knew eventually that he would get in. Do it while he was alive.

They did the same thing to Buck O'Neil. They didn't enshrine him but asked him to speak at the Cooperstown ceremonies. Buck was such a gentleman that he did it without thought. But the writers didn't have the decency to put him into the Hall while he was alive. Buck was a great player. But he was an enormous ambassador for the game and deserved to be in the Hall, like Santo, when he was alive.

Cy

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Cy2009

Greg,

I was listening to MLB radio and Al Oliver was quite upset that Santo didn't get to see his enshrinement. Those sports writers have no soul. We knew eventually that he would get in. Do it while he was alive.

They did the same thing to Buck O'Neil. They didn't enshrine him but asked him to speak at the Cooperstown ceremonies. Buck was such a gentleman that he did it without thought. But the writers didn't have the decency to put him into the Hall while he was alive. Buck was a great player. But he was an enormous ambassador for the game and deserved to be in the Hall, like Santo, when he was alive.

Cy

Cy, I hear you, but the only way to ensure that this happens is to only allow voting once for each player. That would make the voters take things more seriously and it would also let the former player know one way or the other while still living.

The fact that Santo died might actually be part of why he was elected - people become better (or their qualities stand out more) in our memories once they are gone.

[sayhey24]

I think what made it even tougher for Buck was that so many other Negro Leaguers were elected en masse that one year.

Here's a game bat used by the newest HOFer (doesn't look so shiny in person!)--

Greg

[mr2686]

Thanks again HOF for waiting till a deserving player dies to finally get it right. Ron, the curse of the black cat has finally been lifted. R.I.P.

[murphusa]

Santo doesn't belong. Good ballplayer? Yes Hall of Fame? No

[ScottR81]

Originally Posted by murphusa

Santo doesn't belong. Good ballplayer? Yes Hall of Fame? No

I must disagree with you, I understand you but disagree. He was a great 3rd baseman as far as 3rd basemen go and he brought such positive energy to his team sometimes thats more important then anything. There was a reason he was on so many magazine covers with Billy Williams and Ernie Banks.

[MacDice]

Congrats to the third person from Washington State (joining Earl Averill and Ryne Sandberg) to make the Baseball Hall of Fame.

I bet if he had the same numbers and played for the Yankees then he would be in the Hall of Fame.

[jerseygary]

I disagree on Buck. Was he a great spokesman for Negro League baseball? Heck yes. Was he the 1st black coach in the majors? Sure was. Was he indispensible in getting Negro League players elected to the Hall? You bet. Heck I've even met the guy quite a few times and just last month had 3 of my illustrations used as murals by the Baltimore Orioles to honor him (you can see them HERE), but I don't think his playing or managing skills were Hall of Fame quality. Maybe there should be a special place in the Hall, like they do for writers and broadcasters, to honor those guys who were great teachers and proponents of the game (if there isn't one already).

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by ScottR81

I must disagree with you, I understand you but disagree. He was a great 3rd baseman as far as 3rd basemen go and he brought such positive energy to his team sometimes thats more important then anything. There was a reason he was on so many magazine covers with Billy Williams and Ernie Banks.

but I am more of a puriest and I don't believe half of those in belong. The reason we have a HOF was so the town could attracked visitors and make money. Over the years baseball has helped them do just that by putting in marginal players

Santo joins, Doerr, Phil R, Richie and a bunch of others who were good but not the best.

I can even say Ripkin is also in that group. Yeah I know a million AllStar games etc except he was the best player on a bad team most years and his streak hurt the team

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by murphusa

I can even say Ripkin is also in that group. Yeah I know a million AllStar games etc except he was the best player on a bad team most years and his streak hurt the team

Sacrilege!!! You must not have been watching t.v. on the day he broke Gehrig's 'games played' streak - they drove him around the baseball field in a golf cart, to thunderous applause. It was almost as great as HR derby.

We really need a 'Hall of Above Average'. It could be the triple A of the HOF.

[sayhey24]

Originally Posted by murphusa

but I am more of a puriest and I don't believe half of those in belong. The reason we have a HOF was so the town could attracked visitors and make money. Over the years baseball has helped them do just that by putting in marginal players

Santo joins, Doerr, Phil R, Richie and a bunch of others who were good but not the best.

I can even say Ripkin is also in that group. Yeah I know a million AllStar games etc except he was the best player on a bad team most years and his streak hurt the team

This post is wrong on so many levels. A purist would actually want Santo in -- the definition of a purist is one who adheres strictly and often excessively to tradition; the HOF right from its early decades, established a tradition of not just electing the greatest of the great, but also that second tier of players who are below Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb (some of them far below). Santo by the way, lands squarely in the middle when ranking HOF third basemen.

The idea that Ripken doesn't belong in the Hall is just plain silly, but then again people who can't spell Ripken probably shouldn't be offering opinions on Cal.

Greg

[alanu]

The idea of Cal not in is comical. His streak might have cost the Orioles a few games in the later years, but finishing 15 games back instead of 12 isn't really a big difference.

As for Santo, imho he belongs just as much as Brooks Robinson.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

This post is wrong on so many levels. A purist would actually want Santo in -- the definition of a purist is one who adheres strictly and often excessively to tradition; the HOF right from its early decades, established a tradition of not just electing the greatest of the great, but also that second tier of players who are below Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb (some of them far below). Santo by the way, lands squarely in the middle when ranking HOF third basemen.

The idea that Ripken doesn't belong in the Hall is just plain silly, but then again people who can't spell Ripken probably shouldn't be offering opinions on Cal.

Greg

Greg, I have never understood why opinions on who belongs in the HOF generate these types of comments. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Obviously the HOF voters disagreed with you for many years, so saying that anyone who's against Santo is wrong, is in my opinion, wrong.

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by alanu

As for Santo, imho he belongs just as much as Brooks Robinson.

Brooks ave'd 11 errors per season while Santo ave was 21. Even Schmidt and Matthews who ave'd 17 errors a season were in the Hall more for their HR's than fielding

The only 3rd baseman who had more errors per season was Pie Traynor but he hit .320 not .277

The Hall should be for the exceptional player, the best of the best.

This is also a perfect example of a team now having 3 hall of fame players on it who could not win. Santo's time they were 1064-1175


Hey I'm in Philly and I will tell you the Ashburn in no way shape or form is equal to Mays as a CF'er Sure he was the best player on a sh**y team but that doesn't make him a HOF'er

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

This post is wrong on so many levels. A purist would actually want Santo in -- the definition of a purist is one who adheres strictly and often excessively to tradition; the HOF right from its early decades, established a tradition of not just electing the greatest of the great, but also that second tier of players who are below Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb (some of them far below). Santo by the way, lands squarely in the middle when ranking HOF third basemen.

The idea that Ripken doesn't belong in the Hall is just plain silly, but then again people who can't spell Ripken probably shouldn't be offering opinions on Cal.

Greg

The baseball writters did an excellent job in only placing the best of the best in the Hall until about 1975 when Kiner then Lemon went in. The majority of the lesser talented players went in by the committees who voted for their friends. Those getting less than 80% of the vote should not be there.

take all of those players out and the committee ones and you would have a real HOF.

[sylbry]

The nice thing about Santo finally getting in is now people can stop voting for him. How many elections did it take, 20 perhaps? (Last appeared on BBWAA in 1998.) IMO if it takes 20 elections to get someone elected then he shouldn't be elected.

After 20 or so attemps it seems like he was elected out of pity. Either than or Santo became significantly better after he retired.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sylbry

The nice thing about Santo finally getting in is now people can stop voting for him. How many elections did it take, 20 perhaps? (Last appeared on BBWAA in 1998.) IMO if it takes 20 elections to get someone elected then he shouldn't be elected.

After 20 or so attemps it seems like he was elected out of pity. Either than or Santo became significantly better after he retired.

I can already hear the conversations when trying to determine who to vote for: "okay, now who's the next best player after Santo?"

[murphusa]

Santo never got above 48% in the writers vote. There is a reason for that

[Jewish-collector]

I agree with Jim Murphy 100 percent. Half of the guys in the HOF should NOT be in. I love Santo, but no way in hell he belongs.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I agree with Jim Murphy 100 percent. Half of the guys in the HOF should NOT be in. I love Santo, but no way in hell he belongs.

In Ron Santo's HOF, Norm Cash would be playing 1B, Sam McDowell pitching, Frank Howard in the outfield....not bad.

[william_9]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

Maybe there should be a special place in the Hall, like they do for writers and broadcasters, to honor those guys who were great teachers and proponents of the game (if there isn't one already).

This place exists. It is located in the entrance of the HOF and it's named in Buck's honor. I'm in the camp that believes he should have been inducted based on his total contribution, but, in my mind, having an award named in his honor is a greater celebration of his life and accomplishments. That's probably the best righting of a wrong (in my opinion) as one could hope to receive.

BTW, congrats to the family of Ron Santo!