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  #1  
Old 10-17-2011, 06:30 PM
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gnaz01 gnaz01 is offline
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Default Mathewson Secretarial Autograph OK'd by JSA??

Am I missing something here?? I saw this on Hauls of Shame:

http://haulsofshame.com/

And then I saw this one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...#ht_500wt_1180

Are they both secretarial?? They both look as if they have been signed by the same person, yet both are "authenticated" by JSA.

How can this be??? (No worries Leon, my name is posted as I am not ashamed of it) It is just that SOOOO many people put their trust in JSA, what ever happened to just comparing to KNOWN exemplars and that was good enough??
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2011, 12:51 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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The author would do a lot better if he just stuck to the facts and avoided "Autograph Alert School of Journalism" passages such as:

"Sources indicate that authentications like these by JSA and PSA are far from “mistakes” and show that these companies continue to certify non-genuine items to avoid the refunds and returns that would be requested from their clients if, in fact, they were to correct their flawed opinions."

Really? Shouldn't something this inflammatory be from a named source? Who is the source?

"Another source told us he believes the Matty secreterial signatures will be probed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

Again, really? Shouldn't something this important be from a named source?The FBI is ignoring the thousands and thousands of questionable items coming from the preferred document experts at Coaches Corner, yet are focusing on a handful of items from JSA? Who is the source again?
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
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perezfan perezfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
The author would do a lot better if he just stuck to the facts and avoided "Autograph Alert School of Journalism" passages such as:

"Sources indicate that authentications like these by JSA and PSA are far from “mistakes” and show that these companies continue to certify non-genuine items to avoid the refunds and returns that would be requested from their clients if, in fact, they were to correct their flawed opinions."

Really? Shouldn't something this inflammatory be from a named source? Who is the source?

"Another source told us he believes the Matty secreterial signatures will be probed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

Again, really? Shouldn't something this important be from a named source?The FBI is ignoring the thousands and thousands of questionable items coming from the preferred document experts at Coaches Corner, yet are focusing on a handful of items from JSA? Who is the source again?
More than likely, the "source" is some disgruntled collector who's had a submission or two rejected by JSA. The small faction of the hobby with displaced anger and resentment towards JSA/PSA does more damage than good (IMO).

With the hoards of other blatant fradulent and criminal sellers/authenticators out there, I am perplexed as to why they funnel all of their anger towards the two outfits that are as close to reputable as we have. Perhaps it's because they're successful and/or well respected? I really find these "rebel rousing" blogs disturbing... but to each his own, I suppose.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:43 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
More than likely, the "source" is some disgruntled collector who's had a submission or two rejected by JSA. The small faction of the hobby with displaced anger and resentment towards JSA/PSA does more damage than good (IMO).
Here's a "axe to grind alert website" translation guide for you:

Unnamed source = I think that...

Many think = Me

Concerned collectors = submitters whose items were rejected

Expert dealers have contacted us... = dealers whose items are okay with the court approved forensic experts, yet they routinely fail other TPAs have been whining...

It is reported = My cohorts think that...

The FBI should investigate = I wish the FBI would put these guys out of business so we can go back to the good old days when I had the run of the place...
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:55 PM
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I get emails many times, as recently as today, from people claiming they were ripped off, scammed etc (not on the board but have found me through it)... Anytime they don't have a name and contact info I always respond that I appreciate the info but it holds no weight (to me) and I won't help or respond, without knowing who is behind the email(s) to me. I just won't do it.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2011, 03:07 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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It's funny how it all gets flipped around when the topic of the article is the christy mathewson sigs.

That's exactly what the companies want, the topic and discussion to go off track, so they can ignore it an cert the next round of questionable autographs.

If collectors only knew what really went on at these places, i doubt they would ever send in another autograph to them.

The mathewson story is one out of hundreds, almost all which haven't been reported yet. again , these companies use the forensic examiner as their bogeyman, so they can try to look good.

They WANT the forensic examiner in the game, so the focus stays off of them. no forensic examiners to push around= the spotlight on the authentication companies.

I dont care about the forensic examiners, but people want it to be an either/or game, and it's neither. you have to call out the mistakes and the bad apples when they occur, from ALL sides, not just ignore it if it is a large authentication company.

If an FDE did the mathewson's, lots of people would be calling bloody murder, but it was an acronym company that they like, so let's just all move on, nothing to see here?

Investigate EVERYBODY! Because the bread crumbs are out there, and they don't just lead to forensic document examiners.

Travis Roste
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2011, 03:41 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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Originally Posted by travrosty View Post
I dont care about the forensic examiners, but people want it to be an either/or game, and it's neither. you have to call out the mistakes and the bad apples when they occur, from ALL sides, not just ignore it if it is a large authentication company.
Most people want everyone to be held accountable and be accurate, Travis. No one is excusing JSA. They should make it right.

But the point is, the source must be considered. The cartoonish attack sites are so venomous, one-sided and unobjective, it can make one more sympathic to PSA and JSA. You and your pals have actually turned them into the put-upon victim.

So next time you write one of your bilious hate-filled rants on that charming little site that shall remain unamed, the next time you personally attack and smear the participants on other sites (including me), the next time you copy and paste content from other message boards to mock the writers in their absence, please remember this: you are your own worst enemy.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2011, 12:36 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travrosty View Post
It's funny how it all gets flipped around when the topic of the article is the christy mathewson sigs.

That's exactly what the companies want, the topic and discussion to go off track, so they can ignore it an cert the next round of questionable autographs.

If collectors only knew what really went on at these places, i doubt they would ever send in another autograph to them.

The mathewson story is one out of hundreds, almost all which haven't been reported yet. again , these companies use the forensic examiner as their bogeyman, so they can try to look good.

They WANT the forensic examiner in the game, so the focus stays off of them. no forensic examiners to push around= the spotlight on the authentication companies.
I dont care about the forensic examiners, but people want it to be an either/or game, and it's neither. you have to call out the mistakes and the bad apples when they occur, from ALL sides, not just ignore it if it is a large authentication company.

If an FDE did the mathewson's, lots of people would be calling bloody murder, but it was an acronym company that they like, so let's just all move on, nothing to see here?

Investigate EVERYBODY! Because the bread crumbs are out there, and they don't just lead to forensic document examiners.

Travis Roste

If the mythical ABC Companies "want them in the game (forensic document examiners) ", why don't you fight harder against getting them OUT then, like we all want?

Your refusal to stand up and stay quiet about guys like Christopher Morales says volumes about what you stand for. How many Christopher Morales Certified ALI signatures have you seen Travis? That's right next to ZERO, if not Zero, unless one of those dopes on your site is peeling stickers from ABC and affixing those beautiful shiny gold holograms of theirs for a sting operation? I agree ABC was completely in the wrong in their handling of the wonderful shiney gold holograms, but wholey schnikies...can you blame them? Still, the only Legitimate Mantle I have ever seen with a Moralass lovely shiney gold hologram. How is that helping so much that you refuse to speak about it?

Despite what you might think Travis, I respect your opinions greatly and agree with you 90% of the time. You are just way off based on this issue thinking Cock Roach Corner and Christopher Moral Less have little impact. Let's get them OUT first, then we'll work on ABC companies and the 100's of mistakes they make a day.....The difference is the FDE's....EVERY DAMNED ONE THEY CERTIFY IS A FORGERY!!!!!

ABC companies are at least like blind squirrels and find nuts once in a while. I agree that ABC's are harmful as well and it surely needs some serious housecleaning, but I think you are so one sided on this subject that it's really just a shame from a collectors point of view.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 10-19-2011 at 12:42 PM. Reason: sp
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2011, 01:35 PM
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baseballart baseballart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnaz01 View Post
Am I missing something here?? I saw this on Hauls of Shame:

http://haulsofshame.com/

And then I saw this one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...#ht_500wt_1180

Are they both secretarial?? They both look as if they have been signed by the same person, yet both are "authenticated" by JSA.

How can this be??? (No worries Leon, my name is posted as I am not ashamed of it) It is just that SOOOO many people put their trust in JSA, what ever happened to just comparing to KNOWN exemplars and that was good enough??
Is there a consensus opinion on the Mathewson bookplates in Won in the Ninth? I have probably seen 15 different signed copies over the last twenty years, but have never been interested enough (or have enough spare change, more appropriately) in a signed copy to keep scans or investigate further.

(I'm still more interested in finding out whether this book ever had a dust jacket, but I'm probably the only one)

Max
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2011, 01:38 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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Can i blame them? yes i can. there is no difference between automatically failing a morales item because it has a morales sticker on it and failing a roste item because roste sends it in and they dont like roste. It's not about whether you like the submitter or what sticker on it. Its about the AUTOGRAPH! That's what it has always suppose to have been about. and its not anymore.

funny,no one comments on the actual substance of the haulsofshame article, whether or not they thinkt he matty signatures are good or not.

if all the mattys they certified went to auction in the same month, they would be accepted at all the auction houses, how many morales are accepted? NONE. so figure out which does more damage.

my views on morales are well known, so don't pull that baloney on me. i don't do personal attackes on other websites. you are confusing my views with the views of others that post. i am my own man.
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