1952 Topps #131-190 Gray Backs

[tedzan]

In my hunt to complete this series, I have seen quite a few of these Graybacks in the past 25 years, and no gum stains.

On the other hand, I have had several regular 1952 Topps cards with gum stains or impressions on their fronts.

The most notable one was a Bobby Thomson with a full impression of a Topps slab of gum across the front of this card.


TED Z

[toppcat]

I just blogged on the Non-Sport Doeskin cards and after doing so I am skeptical the 52 Baseball cards were issued with Doeskin. I'm about to spoil my next blog post but so be it as I think there are three reason the 52 grays are not Doeskins.

1) It seems Doeskin was rebranding or relaunching around 1955 (the doe logo on the packs was trademarked Feb. '55) and I don't think they ran a set promotion in 1952 even though the Wings cards are from the 52/53 era. For the reason in #2 below I don't think they would have been issued in the smaller tissue packs. Wings and Rails & Sails are extant (a wink to JVB!) in unopened tissue packs with the doe logo trademarked in 1955, so the dating is solidly early 1955 or after.

2) The Doeskin Wings and Rails & Sails cards were elongated to make a perfect fit inside a purse sized tissue pack. The 52 grays are regular sized cards.

3) Doeskin cards are just that. They have "Doeskin" on the reverse where "T.C.G." appeared on the originals. The '52 grays have the "T.C.G." indicia.

Could they have been distributed in a different Doeskin (or other brand) product? Yes but I think they could have been the result of high demand necessitating an additional printer pump out an experimental run for vending-type machine or something similar. First series 52's went through at least three printings and flew off the shelves. Demand must have been insane in some areas so finding an alternate source of printing may have been a natural reaction by Topps.

Here is my link: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...e-ah-choo.html

[usmcloady]

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader. My name is Sean and I am a Collector of several different items (Vintage Cards, Modern Cards, Toy Collectables). I have read this thread several times as I have been trying to find information on the 1952 Grey Backs and their possible connection to Topps Rails and Sails. I know collectors recall finding 52' Grey backs in Rails and Sails packs, but the majority of the Rails and Sails packs I have seen are from 1955. I have, however, also seen 1953 Topps Rails and Sails packs (OPC or Printed in Canada??). Is it possible that the Rails and Sails packs were sold in 1953 and 1955 (I have never seen a 1954 Rails and Sails pack)? 1953 being very close to the 1952 Topps run thus providing a possible method for distribution of 1952 Greys in 1953 Rails and Sails packs? This is just something I have been mulling over in my head recently and thought I post it here for the knowledgeable collectors here on the board. In my head, this seems very possible, a 1953 Topps Rails and Sails pack containing some extra cards from a previous print run to "Fatten" the packs up. Has anyone ever opened/or know of someone opening a 1955 or 1953 Rails and Sails pack in the past, say, 10 years?

[Zach Wheat]

I thought this rang a bell.....after searching through some articles I had saved, I realized Bob Lemke wrote on this issue:

http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...-canadian.html

He also gives some detail about the glossy mid-series gray backs referenced in another post.


Z Wheat

[Lgarza99]

I love reading all the research and possible reasons for this 52 Topps variations. I am just a newbie on this issue so I have no insight other then this.

I work in a print industry and I have been made aware of the following:
1. Paper suppliers raw stock variations.
2. Pressman pulling the incorrect stock to keep his press running, usually in a small pocket, before catching the mistake. Thus small quantity of defect work.
3. Paper trials performed during live runs, and trials are usually flagged but may have not been all removed. Trials performed to test run ability of a new stock to reduce production cost.
4. As far as distribution? A producing plant may have earmarked them for other market release in other products as they did not meet quality level for intended 1952 Topps baseball release. As in the lack of a gloss surface? The gloss may have been applied on a seperate pass? If so, Topps may have not wanted to add cost to this production anomaly.

Just food for thought on a few production floor typical scenarios that may have occurred.

Thanks,
Luis

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by usmcloady

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader. My name is Sean and I am a Collector of several different items (Vintage Cards, Modern Cards, Toy Collectables). I have read this thread several times as I have been trying to find information on the 1952 Grey Backs and their possible connection to Topps Rails and Sails. I know collectors recall finding 52' Grey backs in Rails and Sails packs, but the majority of the Rails and Sails packs I have seen are from 1955. I have, however, also seen 1953 Topps Rails and Sails packs (OPC or Printed in Canada??). Is it possible that the Rails and Sails packs were sold in 1953 and 1955 (I have never seen a 1954 Rails and Sails pack)? 1953 being very close to the 1952 Topps run thus providing a possible method for distribution of 1952 Greys in 1953 Rails and Sails packs? This is just something I have been mulling over in my head recently and thought I post it here for the knowledgeable collectors here on the board. In my head, this seems very possible, a 1953 Topps Rails and Sails pack containing some extra cards from a previous print run to "Fatten" the packs up. Has anyone ever opened/or know of someone opening a 1955 or 1953 Rails and Sails pack in the past, say, 10 years?

Is there dating on the 53 R&S packs?

FWIW Lord Baltimore Press printed the 1950's Topps Giant Size cards.

[usmcloady]

I have a few unopened Rails and Sails packs. They are graded by GAI. The "1955" Topps packs do not have a date on the pack itself, just on the label created by GAI stating they are 1955. The packs say printed in the USA and made by Topps. The "1953" packs also do not have a date on the back, but on the GAI Label say "1953" Topps. The back of the "1953" pack says London, Ontario O-Pee-Chee, Printed in Canada. The wrappers from both "1953" and "1955" have slight color variations and slightly different Font where it says "Rails and Sails" on the pack. I have never heard of O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails cards. All the Rails and Sails singles I have seen always say T.G.C. (Topps Gum Company?) on the back. I have never seen an O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails card. I will try to post a few scans in the next week (work is very busy at the moment) of my "1953" Rails and Sails pack. Does anyone else have any input on O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails? Another question I am pondering..if 1953 was O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails and 1955 was Topps Rails and Sails, is there a 1954 version?

[usmcloady]

Correction..T.C.G. is what I have always seen on the backs on Rails and Sails cards. But still..I have never seen "OPC" or anything like that. I'm tempted to open my "1953" OPC pack to see...but I am not brave enough at this point in time.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by usmcloady

Correction..T.C.G. is what I have always seen on the backs on Rails and Sails cards. But still..I have never seen "OPC" or anything like that. I'm tempted to open my "1953" OPC pack to see...but I am not brave enough at this point in time.

I completely understand your reluctance!