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  #1  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:41 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Default Help, identify an authenticity Hologram Mickey Mantle Ted Williams paging Shelly

Can anyone help me identify this authenticity hologram? Also included the pic it's supposed to be authenticating. I just can't find a company name. I'm not an expert, but the signatures look good, in my none expert opinion.
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Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:08 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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With or without the hologram, these are two common fakes.
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:14 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
With or without the hologram, these are two common fakes.
That's my concern, but best I can tell, they look good.

I'm no expert and haven't seen enough to have a better than average opinion.

Williams
I look at the angle of the bottom of the T
The connector from d to w
the ll
the closed d and a
the finish of the s

Those all seem to line up

On Mantle, it's always tougher for me to tell.

They don't appear to be bananas to me
the 6 like configuration for the k e y
the two e's seem like the way he does it
the sharp upstroke from M to i with the i slightly leaning to the right

That's about all I know to check

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 08:16 AM.
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  #4  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:17 AM
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Well, it’s

Genuine
Valid
Secure
Original
Authentic
and OK

I can’t read the seventh adjective on the hologram though.

Just based on the hologram, my vote is fake as well.
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:23 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Well, it’s

Genuine
Valid
Secure
Original
Authentic
and OK

I can’t read the seventh adjective on the hologram though.

Just based on the hologram, my vote is fake as well.
Funny you say that, the hologram is the worst part! I agree completely. The last one is Q.C. Passed.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:32 AM
shelly shelly is offline
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Looks like its from one of the companies in florida It is a real hologram

Last edited by shelly; 03-29-2018 at 08:33 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:46 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

Looks like its from one of the companies in florida It is a real hologram
I 100% trust you, but can you help me learn by pointing out what I missed?

I didn’t buy it, knew to come here first. Is it just too clean, and those two together?

I’m curious what on my checklist of things to look for as far as the signatures go I am not seeing.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 08:47 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:28 AM
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Runscott Runscott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantleBham View Post
I 100% trust you, but can you help me learn by pointing out what I missed?

I didn’t buy it, knew to come here first. Is it just too clean, and those two together?

I’m curious what on my checklist of things to look for as far as the signatures go I am not seeing.
Teaching a particular autograph is not easy, but I think a process exists for 'learning' to validate any autograph;e.g-early 1950's Mantles or late-career Ruths or quickly-signed Gehrigs. You need to study, study, study, analyzing consciously what you learn after each 'lesson', then testing your memory every now and then. In each 'lesson' you learn something new and these learning points become part of your unconscious so that as you see examples of the autograph in question you are better able to unconsciously decide if it is good or not. If you can't decide quickly then it's probably a candidate for a new 'lesson';i.e-try to find similar examples, look at what's good and bad, decide if the autograph is good or bad, consciously consider what you have learned, letting your unconscious absorb the 'lesson'. You only become expert on that particular autograph over time, as the lessons sink in.

Trying to teach someone the above about a single autograph in one post is really impossible. For really bad ones you can point things out that make sense, but for others, like the above - they pass all your tests, but are obvious forgeries to experts like the guys above who responded to you. They didn't get this knowledge from someone in a single post.
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Last edited by Runscott; 03-29-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:44 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Teaching a particular autograph is not easy, but I think a process exists for 'learning' to validate any autograph;e.g-early 1950's Mantles or late-career Ruths or quickly-signed Gehrigs. You need to study, study, study, analyzing consciously what you learn after each 'lesson', then testing your memory every now and then. In each 'lesson' you learn something new and these learning points become part of your unconscious so that as you see examples of the autograph in question you are better able to unconsciously decide if it is good or not. If you can't decide quickly then it's probably a candidate for a new 'lesson';i.e-try to find similar examples, look at what's good and bad, decide if the autograph is good or bad, consciously consider what you have learned, letting your unconscious absorb the 'lesson'. You only become expert on that particular autograph over time, as the lessons sink in.

Trying to teach someone the above about a single autograph in one post is really impossible. For really bad ones you can point things out that make sense, but for others, like the above - they pass all your tests, but are obvious forgeries to experts like the guys above who responded to you. They didn't get this knowledge from someone in a single post.
Of course they didn’t. I’m not a simpleton. Was just hoping to learn something.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:52 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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That is a Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales hologram.

Those forgeries on that image have been mass-produced in the thousands.

Laughable crap.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-29-2018 at 11:52 AM.
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  #11  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:53 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
That is a Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales hologram.

Those forgeries on that image have been mass-produced in the thousands.

Laughable crap.
Thank you, I appreciate it, that helps.
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantleBham View Post
Of course they didn’t. I’m not a simpleton. Was just hoping to learn something.
Youll have a better chance if you drop the bad attitude and focus on the free help you are getting as opposed to perceived slights. My guess is that you will have to buy a few forgeries in order to learn anything.
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:00 PM
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For me anyway, The "T" in Ted is too tall, and the bottom of the "W" is too high in comparison to the other letters.

On the Mantle, the top of the "k" is too rounded; it, in my view, should be more "flat"

Steve
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:16 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
For me anyway, The "T" in Ted is too tall, and the bottom of the "W" is too high in comparison to the other letters.

On the Mantle, the top of the "k" is too rounded; it, in my view, should be more "flat"

Steve
Thanks I appreciate it!
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  #15  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:18 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Youll have a better chance if you drop the bad attitude and focus on the free help you are getting as opposed to perceived slights. My guess is that you will have to buy a few forgeries in order to learn anything.
From the beginning of this thread I’ve said nothing but thank you’s to everyone.

I wasn’t rude to you was just saying that I was hoping to learn from my mistake and have said thank you to everyone who has tried to help.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 06:19 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:21 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantleBham View Post
From the beginning of this thread I’ve said nothing but thank you’s to everyone.

I wasn’t rude to you was just saying that I was hoping to learn from my mistake and have said thank you to everyone who has tried to help.
"Learning" autographs is not easy and it doesn't happen overnight.

It's all about acquiring an "eye."
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:23 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
"Learning" autographs is not easy and it doesn't happen overnight.

It's all about acquiring an "eye."
I understand, but I can’t learn without asking. The acquiring an eye does make sense, just trying to learn what else to look for.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:34 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantleBham View Post
I understand, but I can’t learn without asking. The acquiring an eye does make sense, just trying to learn what else to look for.
If you, on a daily basis, study authentic Mantle autographs, your "eye" will discover what to look for.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-29-2018 at 07:11 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:39 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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I’ve been trying to do this on google, and will continue to. I was suspicious of the original piece I posted about because of the hologram and it just seemed too clean and mass produced.

What I couldn’t tell was how to spot the forged signatures themselves.

I’ve lurked on here for years. I think this board is fantastic and people spending their own time to prevent others from being taken advantage of is awesome, especially with all the bad things the internet is used for.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-29-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:25 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:29 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )
Great idea, Steve.

Here are some.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...d-how-to-avoid

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ment%3A1130010

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...eball-photo-et

https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...rgery-examples
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2018, 08:57 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
Chris, you should provide the link to the common Mantle fake styles on AML. It’s a good learning tool.

(I’d do it myself but I’m on my phone and can’t find it. )
Thanks, that’s fantastic

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-30-2018 at 08:57 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2018, 08:58 AM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Thank you
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:29 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Yes Mantleboom, it will become so easy that you can see it in the blink of an eye these fakes. it's like looking at those photo's with all the dots...remember those? You would stare at them for hours and then some sort of picture would show up?

Same thing with these horrid fakes. When I started, I focused on the interaction of the "M" and the "a". Also, you can study the different poses. For instance, I have NEVER seen that photo that you posted with an original signature...ONLY FAKES. Things like that can help you along as well. Good luck and please do not be fooled by those RIDICULOUS HOLOGRAMS
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:13 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
Yes Mantleboom, it will become so easy that you can see it in the blink of an eye these fakes. it's like looking at those photo's with all the dots...remember those? You would stare at them for hours and then some sort of picture would show up?

Same thing with these horrid fakes. When I started, I focused on the interaction of the "M" and the "a". Also, you can study the different poses. For instance, I have NEVER seen that photo that you posted with an original signature...ONLY FAKES. Things like that can help you along as well. Good luck and please do not be fooled by those RIDICULOUS HOLOGRAMS
What about this one? On phone sorry about orientation, will try to update
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E756CCC5-48EA-4759-A65C-64FAB530BA9E.jpg (15.0 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg 96880816-9B22-43E4-9F45-E13399B3E31C.jpg (18.4 KB, 92 views)
File Type: jpg 924C9059-9A70-4C27-9F0B-CC69573F491B.jpg (16.3 KB, 91 views)

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-30-2018 at 03:16 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2018, 03:45 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantleBham View Post
What about this one? On phone sorry about orientation, will try to update
Common forgery.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2018, 04:47 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Common forgery.
I actually was right about this one. It’s a friend’s kept my opinion to myself.

Thank you!

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-30-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2018, 05:00 PM
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This is for Chris or Steve Z.....

The latest Mantle posted, is a Highland Mint piece.

Are fakes/forgeries a common/major problem with their items?

Steve
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Last edited by Steve D; 03-30-2018 at 05:01 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2018, 05:24 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
This is for Chris or Steve Z.....

The latest Mantle posted, is a Highland Mint piece.

Are fakes/forgeries a common/major problem with their items?

Steve
Yes, Steve. I have observed dozens of those Highland Mint pieces combined with a Mantle forgery.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2018, 11:15 PM
MantleBham MantleBham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Yes, Steve. I have observed dozens of those Highland Mint pieces combined with a Mantle forgery.
The Highland piece appeared like a fake to me for a few reasons, but the n resembling a u was the first thing I noticed.

More to the point, I googled it earlier this evening, before I saw these posts and it appears Highland was a straight up company; however, criminals hijacked their pieces, I assume because it offered great cover. Is that basically what happened?

As for me, I still stick the JSA, PSA DNA, stuff for myself. Just bought a Mantle JSA piece tonight on Ebay.

Last edited by MantleBham; 03-31-2018 at 07:20 AM.
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  #31  
Old 03-30-2018, 11:44 PM
NiceDocter NiceDocter is online now
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Default fakes

Kind of funny that they might have a better chance of slipping by WITHOUT the hologram! The forgers need to get some better fake holograms to keep up.....
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Old 03-31-2018, 05:00 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Originally Posted by NiceDocter View Post
Kind of funny that they might have a better chance of slipping by WITHOUT the hologram! The forgers need to get some better fake holograms to keep up.....
Has nothing to do with the hologram.

It's only about the autograph.
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