This 52 mantle real

[tuckr1]

This one real and how much ??

[the 'stache]

Do you have a scan of the card's back? That's always helpful.

Just a fyi, here's a good resource when it comes to spotting a '52 Topps Mantle fake:

http://home.comcast.net/~52mantle/

[the 'stache]

There will be other forum members with much more experience examining the '52 Topps Mantle than I have, but looking at this, nothing is jumping out to disqualify this card.

This is a type A example. The black border appears correct. The pixel in the lower left hand corner of the border is missing. The black box around the Yankee logo is there. The coloring looks fairly accurate. As for the card itself, there's uniform wear at the corners. I'd really like to see the back if possible.

Poor to fair example. Several creases, some water damage to the front (looks like a drop in the middle), a little paper loss in the upper right hand corner.

What do you think, guys?

[ATP]

From what I can see in the scan it should be good. If you have it in hand, look through a loupe and check for the half tone printing. It's worn but you cant touch much at all on a 52 mantle for under $3000.

[tuckr1]

Thanks guys I am trying to get a pic of back

[Bestdj777]

Nothing looks off about this to me, although I am far from an expert.

As for prices, prices on these vary, but I would say anything less than $3300/3400 would be a good deal for this card, assuming it is real. Although poor, it is still a presentable example.

[Sean1125]

Looks good... Back scan would make it definative - make sure to check that the printing is correct when card is in hand. Anything $2800-$3k is a solid on the card, you should be able to sell for $3.3-$4k

[Zach Wheat]

It looks good to me too. One of the things I look for is the paper underneath the first layer of corner wear. This one looks consistent with other '52 paper stock and the printing looks good.

Ask me why I check the worn edges? I got burned once on a nice looking '51 Bowman Mantle. Looked perfect even down to the wax stains on the reverse. Didn't check the paper stock underneath the first layer....

[Volod]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

It looks good to me too. One of the things I look for is the paper underneath the first layer of corner wear. This one looks consistent with other '52 paper stock and the printing looks good.

Ask me why I check the worn edges? I got burned once on a nice looking '51 Bowman Mantle. Looked perfect even down to the wax stains on the reverse. Didn't check the paper stock underneath the first layer....

Zach - Just curious: I assume you mean the grayish colored cardstock under the white overlay that is visible in the corners due to heavy wear? That makes sense, but did the bogus '51 Mantle show something else?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Although poor, it is still a presentable example.

Absolutely. I'd flip out if I had that in my collection. Any real '52 Mantle is highly collectible.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

It looks good to me too. One of the things I look for is the paper underneath the first layer of corner wear. This one looks consistent with other '52 paper stock and the printing looks good.

Great advice. Checking the stock is soooo important.

One of the first things I started working on when I began collecting vintage cards was to get a control card for each set I was planning on collecting from. I buy a common (a card nobody in their right mind would take the time to fake), preferably with some decent wear around the corners, and one I wouldn't mind cutting into. Because if I'm looking to buy a '52 Mantle, I want to have a card I know is good to compare it to. I'll compare the printing technique under a 10 x loupe. I'll compare the feel/thickness of the card to the one I'm considering buying (you don't have to take it out of whatever screwdown or top loader it's in). And since my common isn't collectible grade, I'll compare the edge I've trimmed on mine to the edges of the more expensive card. If the Mantle (or whatever other card you're looking at, like an Eddie Mathews) has any trimming evidence, it will stand out. It really helps to develop your eye, and eventually, you won't need to carry the common with you.

It's worth the couple of bucks to make sure, at least at first, that you're not spending a few thousand bucks on a well-crafted fake.

But my gut instinct tells me that this is good, at least based on the front.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Volod

Zach - Just curious: I assume you mean the grayish colored cardstock under the white overlay that is visible in the corners due to heavy wear? That makes sense, but did the bogus '51 Mantle show something else?

Volod, yes.

I think paper stock is one of the harder items to get right when faking a card. Which is why it is important to hold the card you are buying and having an example to compare it to is critical. I think this is even more important when looking at some of the less well known issues in pre-war collecting. The paper stock on issues like the V-61's and T200's - and even the more common T201's - is critical to understanding fakes & reprints.

If you look at the reproduced T201's, they actually look pretty much like the original. However, when you hold and feel the density of the paper stock you immediately know it is a reproduction. There is no way to replicate the delicate, fragile feel of paper made in the 1910's (reproductions are a little heavier with a "stiff" feeling").

Z Wheat

[tuckr1]

What you guys think of red Ty CObb Portrait Piedmont, PSA2.5, Jordan rookie 4.5 BGS, Knute Rockne PSA 2, Topps Gretzky PSA 4 and $1650 cash for this deal??

[pawpawdiv9]

lets just say this card is graded a 2...probably worth 5-6k,
a 3 could get 10-12k
Looking at what you got..
a red cobb-1-1.2k+
jordan-400+
rockne-(depends 33sk or 35nc? 250-300+
gretsky-RC79-80? opc or topps? 2-300
plus the cash
thats only 3850 total, you can barely get a decent PSA1 mantle. I save my $$ and wait.those are some nice cards and theres plenty of more 52's out there.

[tuckr1]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

lets just say this card is graded a 2...probably worth 5-6k,
a 3 could get 10-12k
Looking at what you got..
a red cobb-1-1.2k+
jordan-400+
rockne-(depends 33sk or 35nc? 250-300+
gretsky-RC79-80? opc or topps? 2-300
plus the cash
thats only 3850 total, you can barely get a decent PSA1 mantle. I save my $$ and wait.those are some nice cards and theres plenty of more 52's out there.

Did you see pic of mantle, it is a psa1 at best, so ur saying don't do the deal??

[pawpawdiv9]

ok..its a 1, still likely worth 3500-4k, which is about what you have to trade.
I still not seen a back pic of it, this will enable to see further flaws if its a fake.
sometimes its best in person to get the feel and look. The afore mentioned website was a key bit of info to learn on detecting fakes. My gut says to pass on this,unless the seller offers a gurantee/lets you grade it before completing the deal. It looks good to me as well..the back has characteristics that will help decide. Everyones conclusion seem spot on.
i was skeptic buying mine, and decided to go thru a reputable auction house.

[ATP]

I really don't think the card would grade higher than a 1. Although, a lot of the 1 grades have a major flaw like paperloss, writing, etc. This one has the spot in the middle but visually it still looks decent. I think $3500 is a pretty good estimate of what it would go for. I don't know those other cards well enough to know all the values, but like the previous post said them up and see how you do. My gut tells me that you might be overpaying slightly but if you don't really care for the cards you are trading, than you might be okay as it would be more effort to sell multiple cards to raise the cash, then have to wait for a Mantle to buy.

[Harliduck]

I would make the entire deal contingent on a PSA/SGC grading. Take that risk out, and isn't too much to ask for. I don't like graded cards, but a raw 52 Mantle will always be suspicious in my book and to many. That is one card I wouldn't even look at raw. My .02$.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by ATP

I really don't think the card would grade higher than a 1. Although, a lot of the 1 grades have a major flaw like paperloss, writing, etc. This one has the spot in the middle but visually it still looks decent. I think $3500 is a pretty good estimate of what it would go for. I don't know those other cards well enough to know all the values, but like the previous post said them up and see how you do. My gut tells me that you might be overpaying slightly but if you don't really care for the cards you are trading, than you might be okay as it would be more effort to sell multiple cards to raise the cash, then have to wait for a Mantle to buy.

I would put the value of the card at closer to $3400, and that is if it is graded. I have never had anything graded, but I believe it cost roughly $100 to have that done. So, I would add up the value of what you have and make sure it is less than or equal to $3300 before determining if it is a fair trade. I don't know values for non-Mantle cards so just can't help there.

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

I would make the entire deal contingent on a PSA/SGC grading. Take that risk out, and isn't too much to ask for. I don't like graded cards, but a raw 52 Mantle will always be suspicious in my book and to many. That is one card I wouldn't even look at raw. My .02$.

I agree ^^^ . Like i said and this guy...have it graded first and that should relieve the worry, otherwise the deal is good.

[tuckr1]

Thanks everyone and the deal is contingent on sgc grade of at least 10, just wasn't sure if I was giving to much ??

[Bestdj777]

I would highly recommend getting a one day subscription to VCP, which I believe costs less than five dollars. From there, you can pull the prices for all of the cards you have. Note that the SGC Mantle values are skewed a bit towards the lower side because there have been a couple of really abused ones switching hands. But, BVG or PSA should be a good comparison, just look at the pictures and find one as presentable as yours.

[pawpawdiv9]

cardtarget is good and free!!!

[Zach Wheat]

Yes that is right, Www.cardtarget.com and they track prices of 52 Topps as well. This site is one of my favorite sites. If there is a set that you want added Mike takes requests. He has been working hard on this site.

Z Wheat

[cardsfan73]

+1 for cardtarget. I use that site all the time!

[Harliduck]

Cool site...thanks for posting!

[Wymers Auction]

Should there be any white in the center of that logo bat or is that a crease?

[Volod]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Should there be any white in the center of that logo bat or is that a crease?

Under magnification, that doesn't look to me like the notorious white stripe that flags a fake Mantle. If you examine the other areas of black print nearby, like the bat handle, etc., there is similar whitish fraying of the paper surface, presumably from aging alone. I believe the well known white stripe that identifies fakery is much more defined and obvious.