Notes from the National

[xcgrammer]

Here is a shot of the flyer that went out with the program picturing the Kendrick Collection. The Wagner was not there, but pretty much everything else was.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by travrosty

we could all have these it just takes $$, it's not some great collecting feat.

What amazing collectibles, art, automobiles, properties, planes, food, clothing and other items that carry price tags can simply be purchased with money? When did this happen?

I’m noticing a trend here it seems people of significant net worth are able to build massive collections. Even in some cases the world is better for it because these folks leave these collections to open or seed great museums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Johnston

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...rt-collection/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phillips_Collection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lang_Freer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lehman

http://www.ralphlaurencarcollection.com/

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/

http://www.pcgs.com/News/The-Eliasberg-Collection/

They probably leave the stuff because it wasn’t anything special they did. After all they only did it because they had money…

[conor912]

Originally Posted by xcgrammer

Here is a shot of the flyer that went out with the program picturing the Kendrick Collection. The Wagner was not there, but pretty much everything else was.

I consider this more of a portfolio than a collection. I agree that there's nothing terribly impressive here. The rarity with his hoard lies in the condition and not the cards themselves. This guy is an investor who happens to have a fetish for baseball cards....not a collector.

[CW]

Originally Posted by conor912

I consider this more of a portfolio than a collection. I agree that there's nothing terribly impressive here. The rarity with his hoard lies in the condition and not the cards themselves. This guy is an investor who happens to have a fetish for baseball cards....not a collector.

That is a valid assumption. Many here also thought the same thing, until a video was posted of Mr. Kendrick talking about his collection with the passion of... a true collector. It left the viewer with the sense that this man truly loved baseball cards, despite having a large bank account.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by CW

That is a valid assumption. Many here also thought the same thing, until a video was posted of Mr. Kendrick talking about his collection with the passion of... a true collector. It left the viewer with the sense that this man truly loved baseball cards, despite having a large bank account.

Fair enough. Not trying to dog on the guy.....he can spend his money however he wants. I've just seen it too many times to be impressed by it.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by conor912

I consider this more of a portfolio than a collection. I agree that there's nothing terribly impressive here. The rarity with his hoard lies in the condition and not the cards themselves. This guy is an investor who happens to have a fetish for baseball cards....not a collector.

What does it matter in the end if Mr. Kendrick is a passionate collector or a total D-bag? I have always found this whole discussion hard to wrap my head around. He’s buying things in a free market that are publicly offered for sale.

I often wonder if many of the folks who stand on this soapbox about ”is he a real collector?” would have such an opinion one way or the other if it was their Gem Mint 52 Topps Mantle on the auction block for sale? Would they stop the sale, or only let “qualified” collectors bid on the card?

I get it, it’s a bonus if the guy digs the stuff you have common ground with somebody. But the real common ground is somebody is putting money into the hobby of which we all have a vested interest in to some degree shouldn’t that be enough?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

What does it matter in the end if Mr. Kendrick is a passionate collector or a total D-bag? I have always found this whole discussion hard to wrap my head around. He’s buying things in a free market that are publicly offered for sale.

I often wonder if many of the folks who stand on this soapbox about ”is he a real collector?” would have such an opinion one way or the other if it was their Gem Mint 52 Topps Mantle on the auction block for sale? Would they stop the sale, or only let “qualified” collectors bid on the card?

I get it, it’s a bonus if the guy digs the stuff you have common ground with somebody. But the real common ground is somebody is putting money into the hobby of which we all have a vested interest in to some degree shouldn’t that be enough?

You are overanalyzing it. nobody said he was a jerk but he didnt do anything particularly difficult.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by travrosty

You are overanalyzing it. nobody said he was a jerk but he didnt do anything particularly difficult.

I think it’s you who is perhaps over complicating it. Travis why does anything he has done need to be deemed “special” or have to have some level of perceived difficulty ?

Mr. Kendrick isn’t claiming to have cured cancer. He’s just showing off his collection which everyone on this forum does to a degree. Have any of us really done anything amazing? I mean how do you buy your baseball cards? Do you do it by hanging from a wire over a pit of cobras, while saving children from a burning bus and reading to the homeless?

We all collect on some sort of budget, and buy from pretty much the same places it’s all relative.

[drcy]

I'm not sure I understand. Would the homeless guys be in the pit with the cobras?

[Matthew H]

All of my baseball cards are organic and come from a fair economy. Plus, for every card I buy, a starving child gets one card for his collection.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

All of my baseball cards are organic and come from a fair economy. Plus, for every card I buy, a starving child gets one card for his collection.

Show off.

[CharleyBrown]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Do you do it by hanging from a wire over a pit of cobras, while saving children from a burning bus and reading to the homeless?

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by travrosty

You are overanalyzing it. nobody said he was a jerk but he didnt do anything particularly difficult.

How difficult is it for somebody to sit in front of a computer at two o'clock in the morning, press a few buttons, and then write a big check in the morning? Doesn't seem like what Mr. Kendrick does is any more or less impressive than what any other collector does. If you have a lot of money the hobby is very easy to navigate.

[Big Ben]

Just a couple of observations. A friend of mine and I attended The National two years ago in Chicago. That was the first National that both of us attended. Like 2011, Sunday was the only day that we could attend the show so this is the basis for our observations.

I thought that the attendance was higher this year and that there were more dealers.

As a rule, we thought that the dealers whom had price tags on the front of their cards were easier to negotiate. Not all, but some dealers who did not have price tags on their cards seemed like we were bothering them when we inquired about the price of a card.

Compered to 2011, I thought that there were a lot more newer cards on display. Maybe that was because I started out only looking for vintage cards.

There were a couple of dealer tables in the Olympic Pavilion that were very cool! One dealer displayed an Olympic medal from the 1960 Rome games that was amazing.


As usual, the show is/was amazing and we will be back the next time The National is in Chicago!

[CharleyBrown]

It seems like more so than in previous years, people made note of the number of kids in the crowd. Did you all find that there were more kids/teenagers this year?

I'm wondering if it is because many of those that got into the hobby in the 80s are starting to have kids, and getting them involved in the hobby?

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by e107collector

$1.2M for a PSA 2 Wagner?? Wow!! Did it sell?

Also, did anyone notice any E-107 HOFer's at any tables coming up for auction, or for sale?

Thanks again for all the pics.

Tony

Legendary had their next batch of e107s that were going up for auction next. 12-14 cards or so, they all looked nice including the HOFers but you couldn't see the backs of course. Others than that I saw a couple beat to sh!t e107s, but slim pickins as usual.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

How difficult is it for somebody to sit in front of a computer at two o'clock in the morning, press a few buttons, and then write a big check in the morning? Doesn't seem like what Mr. Kendrick does is any more or less impressive than what any other collector does. If you have a lot of money the hobby is very easy to navigate.

The difficulty is earning the ability to write a big check.

[olrac44]

I saw a lot of great items throughout the show although I think the most impressive piece was Joe T's Shadow Box with single signed baseball of the original 5 members of the baseball hall of fame.

Probably something I will never see again.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

The difficulty is earning the ability to write a big check.

That's part of what Travis is missing. Some people assume that such people all of a sudden get stupid once they have money, and just start spending whatever it takes to get whatever they want. Only professional football players do that.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown

Classic! Love it.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

How difficult is it for somebody to sit in front of a computer at two o'clock in the morning, press a few buttons, and then write a big check in the morning? Doesn't seem like what Mr. Kendrick does is any more or less impressive than what any other collector does. If you have a lot of money the hobby is very easy to navigate.

Correct Barry and in a society that tends to vilify the success and wealth of some. We tend to forget how many of these wealthy collectors have left behind great collections for the public to enjoy via a variety of public venues.

[Leon]

Kendrick is a passionate collector, no doubt. The fact he has the resources to acquire great cards is not of concern to me. More power to him.

Also, most of us that have been collecting for 10+ years have collections that can't just be bought. It takes time, energy AND money. I doubt anyone, with any size pocketbook, could go out and buy Wonkas (hi John) collection by just writing a check, unless he is willing to sell it. And I am quite sure they couldn't buy a collection like mine either, if I wasn't selling it.

The National was great overall and I will probably give some more thoughts on it over the next few days.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

Kendrick is a passionate collector, no doubt. The fact he has the resources to acquire great cards is not of concern to me. More power to him.

Also, most of us that have been collecting for 10+ years have collections that can't just be bought. It takes time, energy AND money. I doubt anyone, with any size pocketbook, could go out and buy Wonkas (hi John) collection by just writing a check, unless he is willing to sell it. And I am quite sure they couldn't buy a collection like mine either, if I wasn't selling it.

The National was great overall and I will probably give some more thoughts on it over the next few days.

but thats the point, you probably COULD get a collection like kendricks, minus the wagner, if it's even legit, - because these high grade REGULAR cards come up for auction occasionally to regularly , (dmitri young collection), that was the only point I was making. i know you think i am not right, well, we disagree,

the high grade Goduey lajoie comes up at auction and kendrick could buy it, big deal. What's to search? They come to you.

[frankbmd]

$200,000 opening bid for my whole enchilada.
Book Value - Priceless
Local pickup only.
Trailers available in town. Your dime.
Auction ends September 31st.
LMK

[nolemmings]

I don’t believe the Kendrick issue is necessarily one of wealth. While some claim that the have-nots should fully appreciate how the haves got where they are, that doesn’t mean all that much here, at least to me. I like Ken Kendrick–he is the owner of my local team who gives a lot to the fans and the community. His only grievous mistake this year is not using his supreme power to fire Matt Williams as third-base coach.

Still, I can agree with those who state that they are not wholly impressed with Kendrick’s collection, at least that part of it that was on display. It is impressive as a portfolio, no doubt, and as long as he’s happy with it, more power to him. However, I still see the argument that it does not contain anything particularly scarce, other than for being consistently high grade, which itself is largely a non-factor to many collectors. I am more impressed by the E107 set that was put together, for example. Although I do not collect T206, I can even appreciate a player back run or a nice grouping of scarce backs–something that almost certainly took a great deal of time and effort to accumulate regardless of cost. These things resonate more with me as a collector than the mere acquisition of pieces that appear for sale with some regularity.

Again, I don’t doubt Kendrick’s passion for the game and I think it’s extremely cool that he is a fellow collector, but I would much rather hear him talk of how hard it was to find that ‘14 CJ Pratt in nice shape, or how he’s still hunting for six more Carolina Brights commons to complete that back sub-set/set. Maybe a story about how he always liked that ‘54 Topps O’Brien brothers card or shunned buying Connie Mack All-Stars because they weren’t as nice as those Red backs in 1951. While a sterile display case can only convey so much of a person’s hobby involvement, I can’t help but believe that those kinds of intangibles would turn just as many heads.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

The difficulty is earning the ability to write a big check.

Not a whole lot different than any one of us writing a big check for a card, relative to our incomes. I agree with the others who are only impressed by quality of the cards themselves not the value or the ability of the owner to purchase them.

Having said that, if the guy is a true collector the only difference between him and myself for example is the means to purchase extremely high graded copies and the rarest of the rare cards that are out of reach to the average collector.

Hell, if I had the funds, I'd own them too so I don't disrespect him for doing it if he truly loves the hobby.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Correct Barry and in a society that tends to vilify the success and wealth of some. We tend to forget how many of these wealthy collectors have left behind great collections for the public to enjoy via a variety of public venues.

John,
I am not now, nor am I ever looking to start or enter an argument on this board, nor am I trying to "vilify" success. That is ridiculous. All I meant was that I am way more impressed by collections I have seen on this board (most certainly including yours) than I am by a bunch of PSA 10 RCs.

I obviuosly touched a nerve, but forgive me if my idea of a collector is different than yours.

[barrysloate]

Maybe Mr. Kendrick is collecting exactly what he wants to collect. Maybe an E107 or a T206 with Drum back are of no interest to him, but he absolutely loves his PSA 10 1952 Mantle. Maybe he finds Drum backs boring. Who knows.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Maybe Mr. Kendrick is collecting exactly what he wants to collect. Maybe an E107 or a T206 with Drum back are of no interest to him, but he absolutely loves his PSA 10 1952 Mantle. Maybe he finds Drum backs boring. Who knows.

It's all relative...People collect what they like and can afford. That said his collection IMO is boring as I much prefer to see collections that have real rarity over condition rarity. And there is an argument to be made that it was no real feat for him to put the displayed collection together. All it took was money, and every single one of us here could put that collection together with very little effort if we had his money. It's an impressive array of cards to be sure, but my guess is that it took less effort than pretty much every Net54er puts into his own collection.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

I consider this more of a portfolio than a collection. I agree that there's nothing terribly impressive here. The rarity with his hoard lies in the condition and not the cards themselves. This guy is an investor who happens to have a fetish for baseball cards....not a collector.

Reverse snobbery?

[nolemmings]

Reverse snobbery?

Are you Net54's Reggie Jackson-- the straw that stirs the pot?

[glchen]

For some reason, there is a real bias against wealthy collectors on this board. Sure, Kendrick is wealthy, but there is a lot of other things that he could have chosen to spend his money on. From what I've read, it seems like he genuinely enjoys collecting cards. What's wrong w/ that? Some people may say that he's only looking at it as an investment, but I thought that I read somewhere that he said he doesn't plan on selling any of the cards he's purchased in the past. It's a pretty rare investor that says that I have 1000 shares of Apple stock that I never plan on selling, but I just want to display the certificates in my office to look at every day. Another criticism is that he displays his collection so much, he's obviously bragging about it. So what? It's nice to see the cards of wealthy or long time collectors. I wish that the owner of the T215 Pirates near set would display his collection at National someday. It'd be nice to see the Just So Cy Young at some event. There are plenty of iconic cards in the hobby that I wish their owners would display more often, so I don't think Kendrick deserves the backlash for showing his collection.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Are you Net54's Reggie Jackson-- the straw that stirs the pot?

I just find it ridiculous that someone with no knowledge of the man is making pronouncements that he is not a true collector, whatever that means.

EDIT TO ADD I think Gary stated it very well above.

[nolemmings]

For some reason, there is a real bias against wealthy collectors on this board.

I couldn't disagree more.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by glchen

For some reason, there is a real bias against wealthy collectors on this board.

How so? What have you seen that brings you to that conclusion? There may be a bias against jerks and trolls, but I don't see what you're seeing at all. There are many obviously wealthy collectors on this forum who seem to be getting along fine here with everyone.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by glchen

For some reason, there is a real bias against wealthy collectors on this board. Sure, Kendrick is wealthy, but there is a lot of other things that he could have chosen to spend his money on. From what I've read, it seems like he genuinely enjoys collecting cards. What's wrong w/ that? Some people may say that he's only looking at it as an investment, but I thought that I read somewhere that he said he doesn't plan on selling any of the cards he's purchased in the past. It's a pretty rare investor that says that I have 1000 shares of Apple stock that I never plan on selling, but I just want to display the certificates in my office to look at every day. Another criticism is that he displays his collection so much, he's obviously bragging about it. So what? It's nice to see the cards of wealthy or long time collectors. I wish that the owner of the T215 Pirates near set would display his collection at National someday. It'd be nice to see the Just So Cy Young at some event. There are plenty of iconic cards in the hobby that I wish their owners would display more often, so I don't think Kendrick deserves the backlash for showing his collection.

+1!

[Matthew H]

I don't think people are having bias against the wealthy, I think the fact that Kendrick has the highest graded versions of the same generic cards that everyone else has (minus Wagner and a few others) is the reason some aren't that impressed.

I, too, think its cool that he's willing to display his collection, and I wish others with great stuff would do the same.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

How so? What have you seen that brings you to that conclusion? There may be a bias against jerks and trolls, but I don't see what you're seeing at all. There are many obviously wealthy collectors on this forum who seem to be getting along fine here with everyone.

Here's another thread. Link. I could look for more, I guess, but it's a theme I've seen before.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by glchen

Here's another thread. Link. I could look for more, I guess, but it's a theme I've seen before.

Ah, I see what you're referring to now...I think the bias is against wealthy collectors entering our hobby and putting together a collection at breakneak speed...I agree there is a bias against that, but I don't think it has anything to do with their wealth but rather how they approach the hobby that most everyone here has spent years dedicated to. It's more of a question of their dedication IMO.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Mr Kendrick's collection other than I find it boring for reasons I already stated in this thread.....of course if he were a member here I wouldn't say that publicly.

[MattyC]

So if a collector prefers a 52 Mantle or the like to a CJ Pratt or other rare, relative common, then he's not a "collector?" Says who-- maybe I missed the memo that specified what cards constitute a collection over a mere portfolio.

If I track down a Frederick Foto Ruth I guess I'm a collector-- but if I add a PSA 9 Schmidt or PSA 10 Brett, where do I go to forfeit my collector badge?

Some guys like both cards that are tough in any grade and cards that are just pricey in higher grade. Some guys enjoy spending money on a common player that other guys would have trashed right out of the pack. Some guys collect plastic holders and grades and don't compare the cards within said holders, just choosing the uglier yet higher graded specimen. Some guys will only buy from one TPG and blind themselves to great cards. Some collect to compete with other collectors over arbitrary GPAs of sets on a website. Some like to buy unopened. Some like freakish errors even if the player featured was a scrub. Some just like the most popular images of the most accomplished players ever.

Some of that seems very silly and foolish to me, some is the way I go, but I say live (collect) and let live (collect). If a guy is happy no need to rain on any parades. Almost always, there will be others out there somewhere who likes what another guy likes, so there will be a group of some size to appreciate any card and make a market for it.

Above all I'd hazard the opinion that collectors of cards-- no matter what cards-- have more in common than not, and should therefore be collegial toward one another as opposed to catty (like chicks). Reminds me of how silly it seems when sports fans of rival teams pummel each other in a brawl; meanwhile these combatants are probably both passionate fans of their sport, and would likely help each other if caught in some crisis. But perhaps that's the human condition, to look for reasons to divide rather than come together.

Hence my constant, raging misanthropy

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by glchen

Here's another thread. Link. I could look for more, I guess, but it's a theme I've seen before.

I just checked that out, the guy built a t206 set then sold it... Who cares? That's not a very good example Gary,

[travrosty]

He was just collecting numbers, not cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

If I track down a Frederick Foto Ruth I guess I'm a collector-- but if I add a PSA 9 Schmidt or PSA 10 Brett, where do I go to forfeit my collector badge?

)

Conor will take it from you and give you a fetish badge to replace it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

He was just collecting numbers, not cards.

And you know this how? Maybe he's collecting his favorite cards in the best condition he can find...nobody here knows his motive for collecting. The guy can afford to best so he buys the best.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To Gary's point, as I recall Jim Crandell got a lot of grief for not being a "true collector" despite his 20,000+ cards because he collected high grade ones.

[CharleyBrown]

Originally Posted by MattyC

So if a collector prefers a 52 Mantle or the like to a CJ Pratt or other rare, relative common, then he's not a "collector?" Says who-- maybe I missed the memo that specified what cards constitute a collection over a mere portfolio.

If I track down a Frederick Foto Ruth I guess I'm a collector-- but if I add a PSA 9 Schmidt or PSA 10 Brett, where do I go to forfeit my collector badge?

Some guys like both cards that are tough in any grade and cards that are just pricey in higher grade. Some guys enjoy spending money on a common player that other guys would have trashed right out of the pack. Some guys collect plastic holders and grades and don't compare the cards within said holders, just choosing the uglier yet higher graded specimen. Some guys will only buy from one TPG and blind themselves to great cards. Some collect to compete with other collectors over arbitrary GPAs of sets on a website. Some like to buy unopened. Some like freakish errors even if the player featured was a scrub. Some just like the most popular images of the most accomplished players ever.

Some of that seems very silly and foolish to me, some is the way I go, but I say live (collect) and let live (collect). If a guy is happy no need to rain on any parades. Almost always, there will be others out there somewhere who likes what another guy likes, so there will be a group of some size to appreciate any card and make a market for it.

Above all I'd hazard the opinion that collectors of cards-- no matter what cards-- have more in common than not, and should therefore be collegial toward one another as opposed to catty (like chicks). Reminds me of how silly it seems when sports fans of rival teams pummel each other in a brawl; meanwhile these combatants are probably both passionate fans of their sport, and would likely help each other if caught in some crisis. But perhaps that's the human condition, to look for reasons to divide rather than come together.

Hence my constant, raging misanthropy

+1

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To Gary's point, as I recall Jim Crandell got a lot of grief for not being a "true collector" despite his 20,000+ cards because he collected high grade ones.

Jim Crandell got a lot of grief for a lot of things and deservedly so for many of them...I don't agree that he is not a true collector though, his passion for collecting is pretty obvious. I think there is some bias against the registry guys because a lot of people don't view collecting as a competition. I still don't think it has anything to do with their wealth.

[CharleyBrown]

If he has the money, then I say by all means get the cards he enjoys. I don't see why so much animosity/hate is being directed at Kendrick. To me, it seems like there is some serious envy going on here.

In all reality, how do you know that all he has are those generic cards?

TBH, I can understand him and ML displaying those cards because they are the most widely recognizable. Someone who doesn't know pre-war that well is not going to stop in awe at an unrecognized card. They want to see the Ruth, the Joe Jackson, the t206s. Sure, they could have mixed in a few oddball issues, but how do you know ML didn't come out and say, we'd like to display these specific cards?

Generic or not, I'd love to own a '52 Mantle, a Ruth RC, a t206 Plank, etc.

[nolemmings]

I never said Kendrick was not a collector. I couldn't care less if he collected 1889 Old Judge or 1989 Donruss. As I stated, more power to him, particularly if it gives him satisfaction. He can call himself a collector all day every day for all I care.

By the same token, I do not have to be impressed at all by his collection, much less to the same degree as someone else. It is nice and I am somewhat impressed, but points about it containing no real scarcities other than through high-grade are valid. Such points are made all the time on this forum--some just couldn't care less about the slabbed grade and/or aren't impressed by what they consider mainstream sets/cards. C'est la vie and to each his own. To turn this into a discussion about how some are just jealous of other's money misses the mark, IMO.

[Howe’s Hunter]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I, too, think its cool that he's willing to display his collection, and I wish others with great stuff would do the same.

They do, here, everyday. Because of my bias towards T206s, there are two individuals whom I greatly appreciate when they post something new from their collections. I can only marvel at what they must have in their homes or safety deposit boxes, or somewhere. But they often show the stuff here, and don't make a deal out of calling it their collection. Its just stuff they happen to have, and a lot of us wish we had.