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#51
10-07-2009, 05:50 PM
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Dave and Howard,
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It's just that I was burned on a couple of Clemente sigs early on, and I vowed never to let it happen again. I remember the name of Clemente's "alleged" ghost-signer, it was Phil Dorsey. It's possible this item was signed in the late 1960's by Dorsey and then the test could have been produced. I don't have the knowledge on Topps test issues that the both of you do, my opinion was only on the auto. Here are some more of mine to compare:     Here are some that are not mine, but I saved scans:     Note the differences in how Clemente formed the letter "T", also the "Best" in Best Wishes, the formation of "b" in Roberto, the legs in the "R" in Roberto,etc. I would not bet my life on it, but like I said I have seen A LOT of Clemente autos and although there are some variances in his legit signature, they still have the same characteristics. Mike Last edited by docpatlv; 10-07-2009 at 06:08 PM. 
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#52
10-07-2009, 05:56 PM
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Here's a link to my blog post on the 67 Poster Sticker (scroll down near the bottom for back scan) and a front scan for reference.
http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...Red%20Herrings Last edited by toppcat; 10-07-2009 at 05:59 PM.
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#53
10-07-2009, 06:20 PM
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Thank you to Mike and Dave for all the input trying to solidify an opinion. As much as I AM a self proclaimed expert on Clemente issued cards and memorabilia, I am NOT in the least bit qualified to offer an opinion on his signature. I decided years ago not to even try as the thought of forgeries was too scary. Scared to the point that I passed on an opportunity to purchase a 30+ year collection of over 100 signed Clemente items(about 18 years ago). That said, I am very familiar with Phil Dorsey ( A close friend of Clemente's )and the realtively universal thought that he signed many Clemente ghost signatures. I did not buy the pin up for the autograph. In fact, I bought it despite it. I wish it wasn't there - perhaps one day if I get a consensus of opinions that it is not good I will try to wipe it off
(Just kidding. Did I get you?) While some might disagree, imo the scarcity/potential unique status of the item far outweighs any value/added value the signature has. To end, a question, would there be some potential variation attributable to the style of pen and surface? And the conversation continues................
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#54
10-07-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Had one set graded, went from sheet to slabs with an 8.8 GPA...nothing below an 8. Global was the only one who would grade them (see below). Not sure I would feel very comfortable cutting another collectors cards though.  Kevin Saucier . . .
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#55
10-07-2009, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
What did you cut them with? How did you keep them from slipping? As you can see on the sheet I want to cut, I have a lot of room for error. Thanks.
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#56
10-08-2009, 07:36 AM
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1973 Topps test issue (of 1953)
Topps issued a limited production test issue designed in the style of their 1953 cards.
![[linked image]](http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1972toppspaige.jpg) Only these 8 cards are in this set........ 1......"Satchell" Paige 2......Jackie Robinson 3......Carl Furillo (picture actually Johnny Antonelli) 4......Al Rosen (picture actually Jim Fridley) 5......Hal Newhouser 6......Clyde McCollough (picture actually Vic Janowicz) 7......"Peanuts" Lowery 8......Johnny Mize I will post the other 7 cards later. TED Z
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#57
10-08-2009, 08:01 AM
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1953 Reprint
Ted
I have a set of these too. I have often wondered if there was not some sort of gag or joke involved in their production since 3 of 8 are wrong. Al
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#58
10-08-2009, 08:23 AM
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1973 test issue
ALR
This test issue has always been a quite a mystery to me. Why only 8 cards; and, (as you said said) how did they foul up on 3 of them ? My understanding is that less than 200 sets were issued. Perhaps, some one on this forum will chime in that has some knowledge of this issue. TED Z
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#60
10-08-2009, 10:14 AM
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I blogged this almost a year ago, based upon info from The Trader Speaks:
http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...opps%20Reprint
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#61
10-08-2009, 11:17 AM
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Dave
Thanks for posting the link regarding this 1972 Topps test issue......very informative.
I always thought this set was a 1972 issue. But, Krause's Standard Catalog identifies it as a 1973 issue.... So, which year was it issued ? ? TED Z
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#62
10-08-2009, 11:31 AM
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The whole thing is bizarre if you ask me, almost like they were sitting around having a few pops at the plant in Duryea and some had a "fun idea". Any why are they not referred to as "Baseball Stars", which appears to be the proper name for the set.
FWIW some people have questioned the accuracy of some items that appeared in TTS over the years, including this particular story. I think my explanation makes as much sense as anything else.
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#63
10-08-2009, 01:51 PM
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1972 Topps Fun Idea After A Few Pops Set
Maybe Dave's name will catch Bob L's fancy for the next edition
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#65
11-27-2009, 11:24 AM
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Here are some of my rare Johnny Bench issues....
   
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#67
11-27-2009, 08:55 PM
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I only have 3 Topps test issues - the 1968 Plak and Disc, and the 1969 Super of Harmon Killebrew. I used to own most of the Plaks, several 1955 stamps, a 1961 Dice Game of Earl Battey, some 1970 Cloth Stickers and Candy Lids, some Punchouts and full sets of some of the easier issues like the 1974 Puzzles and 1967 Boston and Pittsburgh stickers. I never dreamed when I sold everything off around 20 years ago that it would be so hard to find them again; as late as 1991 the scarcest things I had barely fetched $100. Oh well. I'm still looking for a 1968 single panel Killebrew Action All-Star Sticker, and a 1967 Giant Stand-Up...
  
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#69
11-30-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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#71
12-04-2009, 10:39 AM
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#72
12-04-2009, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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#74
12-09-2009, 09:52 PM
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Can any experts out there educate me on what Topps test issues are somewhat misnamed, in that they were probably never test-marketed?
It seems to me that the 1967 and 1968 discs are just proofs that never made it to the marketing stage - correct? How about the 1967 Giant Stand-Ups? Were the non-proof variety ever tested, or is this issue in all its variations just something from Gelman's closet? I know there was a wrapper, but I think I've only ever seen one example. How about the 1973 comics and pin-ups? I think I've only ever seen (a picture of) one example folded around gum - all the others I've seen have been fold-free. Any reason to think these were ever really tested anywhere as gum wrappers? Is it safe to assume the 1955 stamps, 1970, 1972 and 1976 cloth stickers and 1966 punch-outs never saw any kind of test distribution? I think there's some anecdotal evidence that the 1968 plaks and 1961 dice game may have been tested on some very limited basis? How about the 1970 candy lids? Are they ever found attached to a tub, or with bent tabs? All the ones I've seen have looked unused/unissued. Thanks.
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#75
12-10-2009, 05:13 AM
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I had 68 Plaks at one point
Which I bought at my local grocery store in New Jersey
Rich
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#76
12-10-2009, 07:17 AM
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I have an unopened 68 Plak pack and set and a set ot the 73 Comics and Pin Ups, plus an unopened 73 Comic pack. I have the 67 Discs, both Giants and All Stars, but they are on uncut sheets. I only have a handful of the 68 discs, all cut. I still need 4 of the 67 Stand Ups, but my partial set has a mix of proofs and the finished die cuts.
I have the 67 Punch outs, and a damaged package with 2 uncut strips. Do not have any of the 66s. I have all the Cloth sets, with the exception of the 70s....Bob is pigging all those :-). No Dice either --Larry and Bob are both pigging those :-) . I have only I one 55 stamp and unfortunately it is Don Mossi and the only thing you can see is ears. I can't argue with your conclusions other than I do not think the 61 Dice saw any real distribution to the public
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#77
12-10-2009, 10:59 AM
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Major Topps proofs (that would be a great name for a drunk soldier), never tested at retail IMO:
55 Stamps 61 Dice 66 Punchouts (not the ones with the lineups) 67 3-D (the Brooks Robinson prototype) 67 Stand Ups without die cuts 67 Discs 68 Discs (all types) 70 Cloth Stickers 71 Rookie All Stars 72 Cloth Stickers 76 Cloth 80 Coins
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#78
12-10-2009, 11:53 AM
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I have the 80 Coins, the 72 and 76 Cloths, and the 67 Discs.
Zip on the 61 Dice, 70 Cloth, 66 Punch Outs and 71 Artists Proofs. Have one 55 Stamp and 4 68 Discs. About half of my 20 67 Stand Ups are the proof, non die cut variety. I have a set of the 68 3Ds minus the Robinson prototype, but, Dave, there are two other proof cards involving that set that have surfaced that should probably be included with the Robinson...Can not recall the names, one was a no name Reds pitcher. Bob will remember. He remembers everything
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#80
12-10-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
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#81
12-10-2009, 10:06 PM
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I purchased my 73 Topps Comic Tom Seaver off of ebay still wrapped around the gum. It was hell to open it up to display it. But I think it's a safe bet this was in a store back in 1973.
I assume those crazy 1988 Topps cloth (paper towel) cards were never issued to the public, but don't really know.
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