1912 T215 Pirate-$800,000

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Posted By: Sean

Recently a 1912 T215 Pirate Cigarettes (96/97) Sold for $800,000 dollars
Does that mean it passes 1914 cracker jack as the most valuable set so far?

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Posted By: Chad

It's like Hall of Fame today on the board. When does the PSA vs. SGC thread start. I'm itching for a game of bingo.

--Chad

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Posted By: Sean

I'm only asking this... Because i want my mind settled on this topic

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Posted By: peter chao

Chad,

Where have you been? I don't know what happened. People are starting to behave. Leon must have spiked their drinks at the Net54 dinner.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Chad

Had a blast talking about cards and poking fun of the board and ourselves. (How can you collect baseball cards and not have a sense of humor about yourself?) The funny thing is, some of the stuff we were making fun of has popped up today in force.

By the way, Sean, I think a complete T206 with a mid grade Wagner would blow easily past a million. We may never know what the most valuable set in existence is because they may never be up for sale. Why worry about it? Why not just figure out which card you think is the best? That's the most important thing. For me it's a Billiken Oscar Charleston or Pop Lloyd or a Punch or Cabanas Pete Hill. I'd rather have any of those than a Baltimore News Ruth or a T206 Wagner or a Boston Garter Jackson (though those are all great cards, too.) Money is boring. Cards are better.

--Chad

edited for typos!

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Posted By: Cobby33

That was about $200K more than I had predicted. Amazing. Not sure if it ranks as the highest-price (partial) set, but I'm skeptical of seeing any of them, individually, on the open market anytime soon.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Nope those Pirates are off the market for a very long time.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Was that a Biliken's Pop Lloyd I saw at the show Chad? It was in an SGC slab I believe, around a 30, at a table showing lots of Cuban stuff.......It was a great contemporaneous card regardless, but I wonder how much of my open mouthed gaze was due to its $8000 sticker price as opposed to the card itself. Wish I knew more about the Cuban Leagues, but I think I may have found a new sub-interest in Japanese cards after buying my first card at the show....Ohh boy .



Daniel

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Posted By: Chad

Awesome card. You must have gone to Gary Engel's table for the Japanese stuff. I loved that stuff and for a while and even tried to learn to read the characters, but it was too much collecting Negro League and Japanese. Lots of cool stuff, though. I like the cards shaped like airplanes.

--Chad

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Posted By: Paul

Chad,

If you ever come across a Punch or Cabanas card of Pete Hill, I'll trade you my Billiken Lloyd or my Billiken Charleston -- your choice. I might even throw in a Dandridge or two.

Paul

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Posted By: Chad

In my dreams, man. In my dreams...

--Chad

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Posted By: Cobby33

Any more input on the Pirate horde?

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

with what I expected...........I figured close to a million with juice. About $10K per card. Didn't a lower grade one sell for $7K in Verkman auction recently? With the bevy of HOFers this one had, it was obviously a value at the price paid. Unfortunately, it was a BIG price paid. I don't suspect they will see the light of day again. They are tucked away in a collection of someone who values them very much I'm sure........

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Posted By: JimB

That set was not bought to be broken. It won't be on the market for a long time. Seems weird to say it was a good deal at that price, but it probably was.
JimB

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Posted By: Bob

$960,000 with the juice. One of the underbidders was supposedly going to break it up but the winning bidder has no intention of doing so according to those who talked with him.

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Posted By: Paul K.

Hey kid, you have a HUGE problem with this dollar fixation and cards...

The only things you keep posting are about extremely rare cards or big ticket items.

Do you really want to start collecting?

Why don't you bring your father to the board sometime?

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Posted By: jay behrens

You guys really need to cut Sean some slack. I remember when I first learned that there were baseball cards made before the 1950s (I was 16) I had serious fixation on values and rarity. If it wasn't for the fixation, I wouldn't have known about t208 Firesides and wouldn't have known what I was looking at a few years later when I find the ones I used to own.

Everyone's travel through this great hobby takes a different path. Why not let Sean follow his own and give him the occasional gentle nudge and stop being so harsh with him.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Joann

Sean,

I think that the question of most expensive set can get totally confused if we think in terms of POSSIBLE sets, and what they would sell for. Or what a set might sell for in mint condition compared to good condition.

To me, the only way to make sense of it is to think of sets that have actually sold. Or near-sets.

I think the Pirates near-set of $800,000 must be close to the top. Plus, by the time you add the required fees, it really sold for $960,000.

I don't know if any other set has sold for more than that. So to me maybe the Pirates is the most expensive set. I think that's the only way to decide. There may be a more expensive set someday - like a full T206 in mint, or whatever. But so far there hasn't been one.

Joann

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Posted By: Paul S

Re Sean, I tend to agree with Jay (and Peter C asks these kinds of questions all the time. ) What kid isn't fascinated with $$. His questions tend toward rare and/or scarce, often like our own questions, which usually = $$. Seems any-age appropriate to me. At least he's not posting in the Mastro thread and flaming.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Mastro had a near set of e107s about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it was missing 4 cards. It would be interesting to see what that lot would go for today. I think went for a little over $30k at the time and I told people that was a steal. Most thought I was crazy

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: MikeU

Actual Public Auction Results for Highest Relized Set Prices Ever:

1. SGC Pirate Set = $960,000
2. SGC Cracker Jack Set = $800,000
3. Everyone Else = Below $400,000

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

There is no way that an E107 near set sold for anywhere near $30,000 in the past five or six years. Even if the set was in horrible condition and the four missing cards were Wagner, Mathewson, Young and Delahanty, it would have gone for considerably more than that.

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

I do not remember ever seeing it in a catalog.

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Posted By: Sean

So am i right

Most Valuable (Full Set) is 1914 Cracker Jack

Most Valuable (Partial Set) T206 with 2nd be t215

am i in the ballpark?

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Posted By: Marc S.

I'm sure a "Complete" N172 set, with all known poses, would easily eclipse $1 million. But since such a set does not really even exist...it is probably a bit of a moot point.

To some extent, you are confined by what has actually happened, as opposed to what could plausibly happen.

Imagine a complete run of N173 cabinets, for example.

~ms

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

The CJ set was not in auction and it was a private sale. I don't think it was a complete set so there goes Sean's deal.

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Posted By: Marc S.

the CJ set was transacted pre-grading. Given some of the grades SGC gave to that set, I think it is fairly safe to assume that Randy's CJ set is now worth at least 50-100% more than he originally paid. It is one thing to buy a raw CJ set. It's quite another to purchase a raw CJ set where the Jackson card grades out as 98 GEM MINT

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Posted By: jay behrens

I believe KO won the near e107 I mentioned and I clearly remember that it went for $300 or less per card. At that time I remember a e107 Plank selling for less than $450 and you could get a common for around $200.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- if memory serves, Keith won Bill Haber's E107 set that was auctioned by Sports Collectors Store in Chicago. It was about 15 years ago. Does that ring a bell?

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Posted By: MikeU

"The CJ set was not in auction and it was a private sale. I don't think it was a complete set so there goes Sean's deal."

Bobby, that CJ set was sold publicly by Mastro. It was not a 100% set. So from a 100% complete point of view, both sales (Pirate and CJ) are the highest ever nearly complete set sales. Do not know what the highest price for a 100% complete set sale would be, except that is would be under $400K.

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Posted By: MikeU

"So am i right

Most Valuable (Full Set) is 1914 Cracker Jack

Most Valuable (Partial Set) T206 with 2nd be t215

am i in the ballpark?"

The CJ set was also not 100% complete. As far as actual sales (not theoretical), the most paid in public auction for nearly complete sets are 1. SGC T215 2. SGC CJ.

All real auctions of T206 sets have not come close to the prices realized for the for the T215 and CJ set.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Barry, 15 years ago, I was completely out of the hobby, so that doesn't ring a bell at all. I was told that the group that Mastro sold went to KO. If your memory is right, then maybe he bought it to upgrade his grade. But what do I know, I'm just part of the armpit of collecting.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Anonymous

but wouldn't the harris t206 set be more than the t215 and cj
when it sold for 1.1 million

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Posted By: JimB

Mastro auctioned an E93 set that averaged ex/mt + for 330k a couple of years ago.
JimB

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Posted By: MikeU

"but wouldn't the harris t206 set be more than the t215 and cj
when it sold for 1.1 million"

The Harris near set was sold as individual cards and not as a set.