Jello/Post--Hostess/Twinkies

[Jim65]

How do you guys view Jello/Post and Hostess/Twinkies sets? Are they completely different sets or the same set with size variations?

I guess I always viewed them like 1975 Topps regular and Minis, completely different sets.

[Bestdj777]

I've always considered the Jello and Post separate sets. I could see just going for a combination of the two though.

[hysell]

From that years sets?I think the prices are low end to,with the cutting problems & keep in mind,the food products these came on wouldn"t last a few months setting there for some one to buy them?Real close on the 1975-1977 hostess card sets!Post cards were before my time,but do collect them?

[brian1961]

Completely different sets, for sure.

The differences between the '62 JELL-O and Post are stark. The difference between them in '63 is apparent, but does nothing to make the JELL-O more appealing with a distinctive visual contrast. A few gents really go after the '63 JELL-O because some of the cards are very challenging due the fact they were only issued on box flavors that were not very popular, or larger boxes that were not purchased as often by thrifty mothers.

As for the Hostess, I loved them. As for the individual Twinkies packages, I hated them. Every one I ever saw at the store was stained, often badly. If I couldn't get it in MINT condition at the time it was issued, I simply didn't want it. If it was more scarce than the Hostess, so what. In my mind, if it was stained, it was ruined. Now, if I had had an "in" at the printing facility who did the Hostess cards, that would have been an entirely different matter.

For many of the cards I lovingly wrote about in my recently-released book on postwar regional / food issues, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN, the existing ultra-high grade PSA and SGC specimens may be traced to an adult collector who ravenously pursued a given set back in the day, or a pack rat who squirreled away left-over prizes that were later to be brought into the marketplace as major hobby finds. I wrote of the provenance, for instance, of the find of a mint 1954 Wilson Franks set back in the mid-70s, from whence came the sole PSA 9 MINT Ted Williams specimen. The card sold through a Mastro Auction early in this millenium for about $109,000! A whopper of a price, indeed.

Getting off the subject. You are not alone to regard the great Post Cereal cards, and their beautiful JELL-O counterparts, as separate sets. Another germane example. Very, very, very frequently you will run across an example of the 1963 JELL-O Mickey Mantle, but seldom will you encounter the Post Cereal. Especially an ultra high-grade PSA / SGC - graded specimen. There is a good reason for this, to be found in my book. My book doesn't cover the Hostess / Twinkies, as they appeared from 1975 - 1979. The era for my book is 1947 - 1971.

Nice topic. Hope you get lotsa responses. ---Brian Powell

[David W]

The Hostess vs. Twinkie are definitely different sets, although the front photo is essentially the same.

Here is Lou Brock showing the differences in fronts and backs. I am sure this is not all the possibilities
that exist.

To get a "Master Set" based on all the package sizes, and location of the photo and stats on the packaging would be a daunting task

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Completely different sets, for sure.

....As for the Hostess, I loved them. As for the individual Twinkies packages, I hated them. Every one I ever saw at the store was stained, often badly. If I couldn't get it in MINT condition at the time it was issued, I simply didn't want it. If it was more scarce than the Hostess, so what. In my mind, if it was stained, it was ruined. Now, if I had had an "in" at the printing facility who did the Hostess cards, that would have been an entirely different matter.....

....My book doesn't cover the Hostess / Twinkies, as they appeared from 1975 - 1979. The era for my book is 1947 - 1971.

Nice topic. Hope you get lotsa responses. ---Brian Powell

Agree with Brain, they are completely different sets. ITT Continental - maker of Hostess products actually developed the 2 sets as a result of rising prices according the Ray Faccenda, General Sales Manager of Hostess in Southern Cal. ITT Continental made the set - spurred on by the success of inserts in Wonder Bread. They actually used some of Topps photos with their collaboration - but did not use the same pictures as in Topps sets - according to Sy Berger, in an article contemporary to those sets in 1975. Sy hinted the set was inferior to Topps products because of the errors and choice of photos. It is these same errors that make the set interesting to collect for modern collectors.

The 1975 Twinkies have the same number on the card back as the Hostess set - but were skip numbered - meaning the Twinkies set actually had fewer cards. The 1975 Hostess set had 150 cards while the same "Twinkies" set has only 60. The 1975 Twinkies set was printed on a 60 card layout - meaning there were no short prints and oddly, unlike its Hostess counterpart, the errors were never corrected in the Twinkies set. The population of early Twinkies cards (ie 1975) is somewhere in the 5-10% of its Hostess counterpart.

At the end of the 1975 production the Cinncinati based printer experimented with different ink giving rise to some interesting variations. Due to the scarcity of Twinkies cards, most will probably never be actively followed.

Z

[brian1961]

Thanks, Zach, top notch reporting on your post response. Bravo, bro.

The number of cards in the 1975 Hostess Twinkies set as 60 was what I thought I recalled, but could not definitely remember. You know, if you don't mind the stains, they would be a neat set to collect. There's something special about one free prize card to a purchase product; however, with the Twinkies, you were buying a pair of the Twinkies. With the box of Hostess, you were getting a bunch of the product, and three cards. Reminds me of the Bazooka baseball and football cards of the 60s -- 1971. Their first year of 1959 is an entirely different scenario, and much more rarely seen, today.

As some know, I really love those postwar regional / food cards, coins, and premiums.

'Nuf said. Thanks again, Zach. ---Brian Powell

[steve B]

If I recall it right, the tall thin "twinkie" cards actually came with the cupcakes.

So..........Three sets

Steve B

[darkhorse9]

Originally Posted by steve B

If I recall it right, the tall thin "twinkie" cards actually came with the cupcakes.

So..........Three sets

Steve B

Actually there are four different sizes of "Twinkies" cards depending on the product it went with. The traditional size, the tall narrow ones, larger ones and larger ones with flaps.

Some of the cards can be found in more than one "size" In all cases the card itself was the same size, just the border around it differed. The exception to that was the narrow "cupcake" cards where the print on the back is noticeably smaller.

So....are we talking FOUR sets?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Thanks, Zach, top notch reporting on your post response. Bravo, bro.

The number of cards in the 1975 Hostess Twinkies set as 60 was what I thought I recalled, but could not definitely remember. You know, if you don't mind the stains, they would be a neat set to collect. There's something special about one free prize card to a purchase product; however, with the Twinkies, you were buying a pair of the Twinkies. With the box of Hostess, you were getting a bunch of the product, and three cards. Reminds me of the Bazooka baseball and football cards of the 60s -- 1971. Their first year of 1959 is an entirely different scenario, and much more rarely seen, today.

As some know, I really love those postwar regional / food cards, coins, and premiums.

'Nuf said. Thanks again, Zach. ---Brian Powell

Hey thanks Brian, and good efforts on your book. I think the '60's & '70's era will be known as the "Age of the Regional" sets. It is surprising to me that "regionals" aren't more widely followed.

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

Actually there are four different sizes of "Twinkies" cards depending on the product it went with. The traditional size, the tall narrow ones, larger ones and larger ones with flaps.

Some of the cards can be found in more than one "size" In all cases the card itself was the same size, just the border around it differed. The exception to that was the narrow "cupcake" cards where the print on the back is noticeably smaller.

So....are we talking FOUR sets?

No just 2 sets, at least in 1975. The initial advertising for the Hostess set started on April 28, 1975 with the set being released in all likelihood a little earlier - sort of late for a baseball set. Six weeks later the Twinkies set was introduced as a "test" set in the South. Cal market. It was then that ITT decided to go national with both sets, introducing all cards to all areas. They may have had product distribution issues - but this was directly counter to what ITT initially intended. In July-ish 1975 Ray Faccenda, Regional Sales Manager for Hostess - noted that unlike the 1961-63 Post issues - they wanted all cards to be issued in all products equally. I am unclear if this actually happened - as it appears certain that some panels had to be re-configured for various products. It is probable that panels were product specific. This is probably due to the effort required to re-configure every panel to handle the unique packaging needs for some products as previously noted.

In 1975, Twinkies (1 card) could be found in a twin pack. To counter some of the earlier production issues noted - ITT coated one side of the card with wax to prevent the oil from soaking through (as well as changing 1 of the fonts as you noted)....which is why the pictures are often of poorer quality than Hostess cards....also meaning that it is incrementally more difficult to obtain a high grade Twinkie than its Hostess counterpart.

Z

[Rich Klein]

When I was in active collecting mode back in the day -- I combined 63 Post and Jello -- otherwise they were always separate sets.

[skil55voy]

I agree that the Post and Jell-o are separate sets. Attached are the Mickey Mantle cards from each set. The 63 Post Cereal Mantle picture is a little bit different than the Jell-o photo.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

No just 2 sets, at least in 1975. The initial advertising for the Hostess set started on April 28, 1975 with the set being released in all likelihood a little earlier - sort of late for a baseball set. Six weeks later the Twinkies set was introduced as a "test" set in the South. Cal market. It was then that ITT decided to go national with both sets, introducing all cards to all areas. They may have had product distribution issues - but this was directly counter to what ITT initially intended. In July-ish 1975 Ray Faccenda, Regional Sales Manager for Hostess - noted that unlike the 1961-63 Post issues - they wanted all cards to be issued in all products equally. I am unclear if this actually happened - as it appears certain that some panels had to be re-configured for various products. It is probable that panels were product specific. This is probably due to the effort required to re-configure every panel to handle the unique packaging needs for some products as previously noted.

In 1975, Twinkies (1 card) could be found in a twin pack. To counter some of the earlier production issues noted - ITT coated one side of the card with wax to prevent the oil from soaking through (as well as changing 1 of the fonts as you noted)....which is why the pictures are often of poorer quality than Hostess cards....also meaning that it is incrementally more difficult to obtain a high grade Twinkie than its Hostess counterpart.

Z

For my own collection I'd probably call them four sets. Boxes, Twinkies singles, Cupcake singles and the test cupcake singles. The Twinkie size differences are probably regional packaging differences, so a collectable variety, but not a different set (maybe. did they do any 3 for the price of 2 packs back then? I don't recall them. )
The boxes are slightly different from different packing plants, but the differences are usually pretty well hidden in the codes on the end flaps.

The singles were distributed evenly, but the box cards I'm pretty sure weren't just because some products sold well while others didn't.

But I can see why someone would call it two sets, either way they're cool sets.

Steve B

[Kenmarks]

I agree with Brian and others related to Post Cereal and Jell-O sets of the same year. While (especially in 1963) similar, they are two different sets. And believe that is generally the accepted practice in the hobby.