Consignment/Auction House Question

[anchorednw]

Variations of this have been asked previously, however I am looking to auction/consign a good chunk of my collection and not sure where to start. I have purchased from every major auction house (and some not so major) and not sure who would be a better fir for my offering. All my items are prewar and include names such as Cobb, Wajo, Ruth, etc. Total value upwards of $50K spread amongst 15-20 items.

Obviously, I would like the best exposure, best terms and ultimately the best return. How does one decide?

Until recently, I have only consigned with REA, and am getting 10% commission taken out of hammer price.

What are everyone's suggestions, recommendations and advice on navigating something like this?

[tycobb]

Brian im glad you started this topic as i find myself in a similar dilemma. I too could use some advice . I plan to hopefully consign what i feel and hope will be a very nice and significant piece to the hobby ( black sox related ).
This would be my first time using an AH to sell. I look forward to the responses from the very knowledgeable and experienced members of this forum.

P.s. Good luck Brian with your items !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by tycobb

Brian im glad you started this topic as i find myself in a similar dilemma. I too could use some advice . I plan to hopefully consign what i feel and hope will be a very nice and significant piece to the hobby ( black sox related ).
This would be my first time using an AH to sell. I look forward to the responses from the very knowledgeable and experienced members of this forum.

P.s. Good luck Brian with your items !

It's a question I have wrestled with a bit of late.

Major AH vs smaller AH?
Consign to one AH vs spread out certain items?
Timing: Is Spring or Summer better? (Earlier?)
What can I expect/hope for in way of terms for a decent offering 50-75K worth of items (avg value 2-3K per card, some lower, some higher)?

Good luck to you as well and here's to hoping we get some good insight and direction.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by tycobb

Brian im glad you started this topic as i find myself in a similar dilemma. I too could use some advice . I plan to hopefully consign what i feel and hope will be a very nice and significant piece to the hobby ( black sox related ).
This would be my first time using an AH to sell. I look forward to the responses from the very knowledgeable and experienced members of this forum.

P.s. Good luck Brian with your items !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It sounds like it might be more memorabilia than cards. If that's the case I would urge you to talk to Al Crisafuli of LOTG

[Edwolf1963]

Hey Brian, good question. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of feedback from members here, a few random thoughts from my end …

- I’ve used many/most previously (smaller to larger). First thing is I would insist on a zero commission seller fee. If your items are worth what you’ve noted, you should be able to get that from most of them – especially if they are going to rake 12 1/2% to 23% or more off the hammer from the buyers. Some may offer a buyer premium share, or rebate back to you – again, depending on the value of your items and anticipated return. I’d say just like you would in most any other capacity where you’re looking for the best deal on a major purchase, shop around.

- Hard to say definitively whether you would do better at a smaller or larger AH. Obviously so much depends on exposure, timing, other similar items for sale within that AH or other auctions closing in/around the same time frame. Obviously conventional wisdom would say bigger AH - bigger exposure, but if you have one of many for sale within that AH at that particular timeframe, that’s going to dilute any return. If you’re the “bigger fish” in the smaller pond, great .. but if their reach/exposure is smaller, that of course limits return as well. Many of the smaller AHs will have lower buyer premiums which may make them more attractive to you and your potential return.

- If some of your stuff is ungraded, rarer/highly collectible – the larger AHs may submit to one of the grading companies on your behalf and cover the cost – especially if they feel that will gain more confidence, activity, and ultimately a higher price. That’s something I would ask about when you’re considering them/discussing consignment.

- Some members would suggest using Ebay and doing it yourself – largely because of the reach/exposure, no buyer fees and no commission to you beyond your general 10% final value fee. There are several that will list through eBay for you such Probstein, COMC, etc. - I haven’t used them for consignment, so I don’t know what their fees/services entail but they do have a pretty good following and market themselves pretty well.

- Seasonality .. there are so many different variables largely based off economy and the basic rule of economic supply/demand. Generally speaking, I’ve had better luck in the spring given tax season, refund checks, spring training/start of the baseball season and some of the interest/attention on it. “hope springs eternal”, etc. Again, that’s probably more on the perception side than reality – the only time I’ve seen some seasonality price softness is in November/December from time to time, particularly on some things I’ve been following longer-term.

Many of the AH owners/operators are members here on Net54 so they may reach out to you directly via message or email.

Not sure if any of this is already known, redundant, etc .. but I hope it’s helpful. Again, I’m sure other members will be able to offer up some of their thoughts and other suggestions which may also splash more into the fold here.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Hi Brian and anyone else interested in consigning,

I am always available to talk to about potential consignments and if they would be a good fit for Sterling. If not, I am more than willing to recommend an alternative.

If you are looking to consign I would love to hear from you and willing to talk about your consignment. In case anyone is not aware Sterling is a "one man show", if you contact Sterling you are contact me.

Thanks to all who have support Sterling in the past and allowed me to have a job in a hobby I love.

Lee Behrens
320-219-1372

[Snapolit1]

Definitely speak with Al. You will get straight talk, not pie in the sky mumbo jumbo, but honest opinions and a fair appraisal of what you have.

There are some real unscrupulous operators in this business. This board will direct you to the right folks.

Personally speaking, I've been shocked at the number of identical cards (different grades) selling lately in recent auctions. 8 of these. 9 of these. 7 of these. Did the AH call the consignors and tell them that the card they were excited to sell is buried on page 127 with 7 other of the same card. Man I would be pissed to find that out for the first time when I receive a catalog 4 months later.

[raulus]

I suspect that most of us don’t spend much time over on the postwar side of the site, but we recently had a modest discussion about this issue, which you can find here:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=342743

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

Hey Brian, good question. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of feedback from members here, a few random thoughts from my end …

...Not sure if any of this is already known, redundant, etc .. but I hope it’s helpful. Again, I’m sure other members will be able to offer up some of their thoughts and other suggestions which may also splash more into the fold here.

Appreciate the feedback, insight and well thought response to questions asked. Thank you!

[rand1com]

Most of the major auction houses have a large following so picking one can be a challenge.

With a $50K value and not a large number of items making up the total, you can certainly negotiate on seller commission. Zero should be no problem. Most tend to shy away from taking away from their 20% or so on the buyer premium on a value of this size but you might find one if you shop around.

The biggest problem I see with the largest houses is that they always have a multitude of the same high profile cards which can hurt all of them.

If there are (5) 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles in grade 5, likely all will wind up in the same ballpark while if there is only (1) it might do better.

There are some very good smaller auction houses that also get a lot of bidders.

But it is hard to rule out Heritage, REA, Lelands, Hunt, Memory Lane, Mile High, and many others.

If you find one you trust and get acceptable seller terms, you will likely do well with any of them IMO.

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Definitely speak with Al. You will get straight talk, not pie in the sky mumbo jumbo, but honest opinions and a fair appraisal of what you have.

There are some real unscrupulous operators in this business. This board will direct you to the right folks.

Personally speaking, I've been shocked at the number of identical cards (different grades) selling lately in recent auctions. 8 of these. 9 of these. 7 of these. Did the AH call the consignors and tell them that the card they were excited to sell is buried on page 127 with 7 other of the same card. Man I would be pissed to find that out for the first time when I receive a catalog 4 months later.

to your point, a great example is the last REA auction which had a 1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson as lot #900 and something! A $50k card buried on page 27.

Curious about which route you take and how happy you are with the outcome of your choice. Even tough I am always adding to my collection @ the same time I seem to be constantly thinking about selling my collection to put in a pool and a outdoor kitchen plus a family trip to climb Mount Kilimanjaro.

It sounds like you have some great stuff that would be wanted. Have you considered using BST, you could give it a shot while you're researching and whatever you sold you'd e getting 100% of it.

GLWS, again let us know where you end ups putting it.

I added a picture of my collection as every post should have a picture!

[rand1com]

Nice collection. I think you can cover the cost of your projects/vacation pretty easily if you decide to.

[Snowman]

It amazes me that anyone sends any cards worth less than $25k or so to any of these auction houses when eBay, Probstein, and PWCC are all willing to offer you MUCH lower selling fees AND bring more eyeballs. You're getting absolutely ripped off if you're sending 4-figure cards to places like Goldin, Heritage, Mile High, Lelands, LOTG, and REA. These guys are telling you they don't want your cards/business when they tell you you're not getting ANY of the buyer's premium back, let alone charging a selling commission on top.

This hobby has a serious problem with the rake paid for transactions. I'm blown away that someone hasn't come along and created a seriously competitive platform yet to put all these guys out of business. PWCC had a chance, but they sorta blew it by wasting their money and charging way more than they needed to.

If the company you're considering consigning to employs a sales team, then you're sending your stuff to the wrong place.

[Jewish-collector]

Remember Travis, it's an unregulated industry.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This hobby has a serious problem with the rake paid for transactions. I'm blown away that someone hasn't come along and created a seriously competitive platform yet to put all these guys out of business. PWCC had a chance, but they sorta blew it by wasting their money and charging way more than they needed to.

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

It does seem like plenty of other auction houses in potentially bigger markets charge just as much, and sometimes more. So it's hard to imagine that it can realistically be done for a lot less. That's part of the fun with capitalism - if you're overcharging, then you leave yourself open to competitors who will come in and take market share by charging less, and ultimately drive you out of business.

I suspect that operating an AH is harder than it looks. I also suspect that at lower fee levels, the margins to the AH start to look too skinny. And any market share you might pick up by charging less ends up not being worth it.

Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is the video of one of the industry's more outspoken auction operators bragging about the number of zeros in his bank account, and the location of his house on a golf course.

[Snapolit1]

If the guy living on the golf course made a mint in the last few years selling Zion refractors, Wander Franco rookie superfractors, and Trevor Lawrence relic cards, I suspect his business model ain't what it used to be.

Originally Posted by raulus

It does seem like plenty of other auction houses in potentially bigger markets charge just as much, and sometimes more. So it's hard to imagine that it can realistically be done for a lot less. That's part of the fun with capitalism - if you're overcharging, then you leave yourself open to competitors who will come in and take market share by charging less, and ultimately drive you out of business.

I suspect that operating an AH is harder than it looks. I also suspect that at lower fee levels, the margins to the AH start to look too skinny. And any market share you might pick up by charging less ends up not being worth it.

Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is the video of one of the industry's more outspoken auction operators bragging about the number of zeros in his bank account, and the location of his house on a golf course.

[sealmark41]

It's only my two cents worth but I have been dealing with Brockelman Auctions for years and have been very pleased with every aspect of our dealings from start to finish. Good material, fine communications as needed and very pleased with the results. Strange they have not been mentioned in this thread.
Sealmark

[bks14sr]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Definitely speak with Al. You will get straight talk, not pie in the sky mumbo jumbo, but honest opinions and a fair appraisal of what you have.

There are some real unscrupulous operators in this business. This board will direct you to the right folks.

Personally speaking, I've been shocked at the number of identical cards (different grades) selling lately in recent auctions. 8 of these. 9 of these. 7 of these. Did the AH call the consignors and tell them that the card they were excited to sell is buried on page 127 with 7 other of the same card. Man I would be pissed to find that out for the first time when I receive a catalog 4 months later.

I recently consigned in the REA fall auction, and exactly what’s mentioned in your last paragraph happened to me. Very pissed. I consigned my 54 Topps set (w/ Aaron and Banks broken out to a separate lot), 48 Leaf Robinson, 48 Leaf mid grade lot annd SPs, and 50 Bowman Robinson. Each had nearly 10 or more examples in this auction. This was glazed over when I asked prior to consigning of how they deal with similar offerings and whether or not we should hold until the next auction for better placement. Upon auction going live, sure enough, each card is flooded. My 10 lots sold for half to 3/4 of recent prices realized. View counts on my lots over the 3 weeks of the auction were lower than I’d get on BST here in a week. Essentially gave away my 54 Topps set. Expensive lesson to trust REA hype.

Unless you’re selling something that essentially markets itself, like some of the headliners, I see no reason to justify the 20% AH premium.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Go for it. People think auctions are just licenses to print money. They're wrong.

I'm not trying to belittle the amount of work you have to put in to sell cards for consigners. I've scanned, sold, packed, and shipped many thousands of cards myself. It's work. And a lot of cards is a lot of work. Building an auction house is a grind. Getting people to consign takes work, getting traffic to your site, taking scans, creating the listings, packing, shipping, dealing with annoying customers, I get it. Trust me.

For most of the smaller auction houses, you guys are earning every bit of what you bring in. People sending you boxes full of random commons and $10-20 cards is a grind. Even cards below $100 are hardly worth your time.

What I'm talking about primarily are the large auction houses that won't even accept any cards below $1,000 from anyone, and then want 20-30% of what they sell for. Goldin hiking up their fee to 22% is just a giant middle finger to the hobby. Taking cards that are worth 6 figures from consigners and keeping 15% of the price. That's the type of BS that we shouldn't put up with.

eBay caps their selling fees at ~$300 per item, regardless of what it sells for (plus a ~2% payment processing fee after that). Probstein charges just 5% for anything above $1k.

[sb1]

I am not sure you are aware of the bidders in the deep end of the pool, they don't frequent Ebay or PWCC or Probstein. Nor do they pay sellers commissions.

[Yoda]

I believe when it is really tough times in the hobby, Goldin and others like him will suffer. Economics will rule.

[hcv123]

Advantages of private consignment:

1) Significantly lower commissions 7.5%-10% all in (for items valued over $1K)

2) Price control - If I can't sell it for a price we agree to, it doesn't sell "to the highest bidder". I bring any bona fide offer to you for your consideration and ultimate ability to say yes or no.


I have plenty of references from previous "happy consignors".

My email is hcv123@att.net
My phone# is 516-991-5535

I invite you to reach out to discuss further details.

[anchorednw]

Funny enough, I had planned to send in something smaller to REA soon, but was dragging my feet as I was wrestling with selling a larger quantity and quite sure REA wasn't going to be the place.

The Sales Rep that I had worked with on a sale previously reached out and wanted to know why I hadn't sent anything in yet. I told him my concerns and that I was shopping around. He then proceeded to tell me REA was the way to go and what my concerns. were.

I told him about how my most recent consignment was buried amongst a sea of identical items with no warning. Plus, my agreed upon hammer price with one of their direct and closer competition.

He politely, in so many words, told me to have a nice *#%@ day!

I will NEVER consign material with REA ever again due to the obvious above-mentioned concerns and his lack of f***s given.

[etsmith]

You also have to consider that the largest auction houses may be in collusion with each other, we've seen it before.

Edw@rd Sm.ith

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by sb1

I am not sure you are aware of the bidders in the deep end of the pool, they don't frequent Ebay or PWCC or Probstein. Nor do they pay sellers commissions.

They will go to wherever the cards are listed. Countless high end deals are done in-person from BST listings here and from eBay postings that are worked out offline and at card shows. The only reason the high-end auction houses have a stranglehold on those cards is because we let them. But it doesn't have to be that way.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by etsmith

You also have to consider that the largest auction houses may be in collusion with each other, we've seen it before.

I guess that’s a possibility! At the same time, they seem to compete pretty fiercely against each other, so I have a hard time imagining them really colluding together.

But if collusion were occurring, it would also seem like a great opportunity for a smaller upstart to take market share. Or a new entrant to do it.

Of course, there are some decent barriers to entry that limit the ability of a new competitor to just start a new auction house and have it take off. The new operator would have to really want it, and would need to have a good chunk of change to finance the ramp up.

[Leon]

+1 AH's don't collude with each other.

Originally Posted by raulus

I guess that’s a possibility! At the same time, they seem to compete pretty fiercely against each other, so I have a hard time imagining them really colluding together.

But if collusion were occurring, it would also seem like a great opportunity for a smaller upstart to take market share. Or a new entrant to do it.

Of course, there are some decent barriers to entry that limit the ability of a new competitor to just start a new auction house and have it take off. The new operator would have to really want it, and would need to have a good chunk of change to finance the ramp up.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They will go to wherever the cards are listed. Countless high end deals are done in-person from BST listings here and from eBay postings that are worked out offline and at card shows. The only reason the high-end auction houses have a stranglehold on those cards is because we let them. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Personally on the mid tier items( $500-$10000) I find that I do better buying at auction houses than I do at eBay.
And I agree, there are many high end items that sell for good money on eBay , when the "juice and or seller fees " are factored in.

That being said, not sure I would risk a $100k card to eBay. Just not sure.

[Snapolit1]

I would not list a high end card on eBay and would be very hesitant to buy one there too. I’ve had too many shenanigans on eBay selling $50 cards. Too much anonymity.

Had an AH reach out to me a few years ago and tell me that the item I bought nearly a year earlier was a fake and how would I like to be reimbursed. Chances of that happening on eBay is exactly zero.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1 AH's don't collude with each other.

I don't know of any collusion among AH's in our hobby, but Christie's and Sotheby's were successfully sued for collusion to inflate consignor rates years ago. They got caught because consignors who were used to playing one against the other suddenly got stonewalled at the same rate by both companies.

[oldjudge]

Everyone has their own views on this; here are mine.

1. If you have a unique, important item consign it to the auction house that will have the most people see it. That means one of the big ones with a fancy catalog and a huge mailing list.
2. If you have good items but ones that will already be plentiful in the big auction catalogs consign it to a still solid but smaller auction house. Why add another mid-grade Aaron rookie to a catalog that will probably already have ten?
3. Consign lower value items to smaller auction houses, perhaps even those without catalogs. They will have smaller bidding pools but be realistic--small items are not worth the big boys time and you will not get the best service for these.The owners of these small auctions consign their own cards to the big auctions which should tell you all you need to know.
4. For good or great items not only should you not be paying a seller's premium, you should be getting back a portion if the buyer's premium. How much? That depends on what you have and the deal you can negotiate.
5. Read the contracts the auction houses send and if there are clauses you find troublesome try to get them eliminated. Those contracts are starting points, those words are not carved in stone.
6. Find an auction house whose staff you like and trust. Ask yourself, if my consignment is lost or damaged do I think the auction house will compensate me fairly. This last item pares the list down quite a bit for me.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

Funny enough, I had planned to send in something smaller to REA soon, but was dragging my feet as I was wrestling with selling a larger quantity and quite sure REA wasn't going to be the place.

The Sales Rep that I had worked with on a sale previously reached out and wanted to know why I hadn't sent anything in yet. I told him my concerns and that I was shopping around. He then proceeded to tell me REA was the way to go and what my concerns. were.

I told him about how my most recent consignment was buried amongst a sea of identical items with no warning. Plus, my agreed upon hammer price with one of their direct and closer competition.

He politely, in so many words, told me to have a nice *#%@ day!

I will NEVER consign material with REA ever again due to the obvious above-mentioned concerns and his lack of f***s given.

You will see more and more of this in 2024. Many of the same card being sold in auction. T206 Cobbs come to mind.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Everyone has their own views on this; here are mine.


3. Consign lower value items to smaller auction houses, perhaps even those without catalogs. They will have smaller bidding pools but be realistic--small items are not worth the big boys time and you will not get the best service for these.The owners of these small auctions consign their own cards to the big auctions which should tell you all you need to know.

As a part owner of a small auction house, I would never consign to another auction house, and would be shocked to find that others do. Nothing against bigger auction houses, I shop at other auction houses all the time (can't bid in your own auction for a number of reasons both obvious and obscure), but why would I expect anyone to consign good cards to my company, if I'm sending items from my personal collection somewhere else?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Everyone has their own views on this; here are mine.

1. If you have a unique, important item consign it to the auction house that will have the most people see it. That means one of the big ones with a fancy catalog and a huge mailing list.
2. If you have good items but ones that will already be plentiful in the big auction catalogs consign it to a still solid but smaller auction house. Why add another mid-grade Aaron rookie to a catalog that will probably already have ten?
3. Consign lower value items to smaller auction houses, perhaps even those without catalogs. They will have smaller bidding pools but be realistic--small items are not worth the big boys time and you will not get the best service for these.The owners of these small auctions consign their own cards to the big auctions which should tell you all you need to know.
4. For good or great items not only should you not be paying a seller's premium, you should be getting back a portion if the buyer's premium. How much? That depends on what you have and the deal you can negotiate.
5. Read the contracts the auction houses send and if there are clauses you find troublesome try to get them eliminated. Those contracts are starting points, those words are not carved in stone.
6. Find an auction house whose staff you like and trust. Ask yourself, if my consignment is lost or damaged do I think the auction house will compensate me fairly. This last item pares the list down quite a bit for me.

I agree with this 100%.

Brian, I am surprised by your interaction with REA. In my experience, there are few AHs (hell, companies) better at customer service.

I would never sell privately on eBay. That place is dogshit. eBay was once the greatest venue on earth. Now, for me, it’s the venue of last resort for buying and zero resort for selling. Also, there are non-eBay auction houses that I do not buy from and/or look at

[YazFenway08]

I really have to echo what Rhotchkiss said...

I am nowhere near the level as buyer OR seller as many on this Board, but REA has always gone above and beyond in terms of service for me. Responsive, fair, patient...

This holds true for Scott and Collector Connection as well...Buying from Love of the Game and Brockleman has also always been pleasant so I bet consigning would be as well

ebay still works for me as a buyer of modern stuff and some graded cards from reputable places...but almost every selling experience, even with modern "junk" has just been a hassle.

that's my view from the cheap seats...