New Forensic Autograph Authentication Company

[thetruthisoutthere]

I found the following on the FAQ section of their website:

How can third party authentication companies authenticate so many different autographs?

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess one of the forensic people over at GFA specializes in the signatures of Nana Visitor & Avery Brooks. The below Avery Brooks/Nana Visitor signed photo is presently on a auction site that I will not name.

AveryBrooks.jpg

AveryBrooks--Rocchi.jpg

[GrayGhost]

I don't want to sound stupid here, or w/e, but why n ot give this group a chance?

[HRBAKER]

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

supposedly, they give you your purchase money back, or replace with an authentic item...However, see the process in order to claim the guarantee that I just posted..

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

The FAQS indicate they send the questioned item to a third party FDE for determination. If found bad, they refund price or replace with similar item.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

I don't want to sound stupid here, or w/e, but why n ot give this group a chance?

a bunch of ex-cops with the founder of Global and a hot chick? With over 100 years experience, just like stated at Global..

Also check out their guarantee.

"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination"

Why does it have to be re-subbed to them, so that they can submit it to their own choice of 3rd party forensic examiner? Who exactly will this 3rd party be? Perhaps Global?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by novakjr

a bunch of ex-cops with the founder of Global and a hot chick? With over 100 years experience, just like stated at Global..

Also check out their guarantee.

"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination"

Why does it have to be re-subbed to them, so that they can submit it to their own choice of 3rd party forensic examiner? Who exactly will this 3rd party be? Perhaps Global?

Global is not a forensic examiner. Neither is PSA or JSA or Ted Taylor. Neither am I.
We know who is.
I guess we will have to wait and find out who is their authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator.

[RichardSimon]

Their team page lists the founders, the examiners and the investigators(?).
What are the investigators for?
And another point, in the real world, forensic examination implies hours of work to examine one document or signature. It also implies much higher rates when compared to what the TPA's charge if a true forensic examination is offered.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Their team page lists the founders, the examiners and the investigators(?).
What are the investigators for?
And another point, in the real world, forensic examination implies hours of work to examine one document or signature. It also implies much higher rates when compared to what the TPA's charge if a true forensic examination is offered.

The whole notion of a "forensic exam" and "forensic examiners" adding value for modern era collectibles is absurd. If the medium (ball, photostock, etc) is "of the era" and the signing implement is "of the era," what else is there to "forensically" examine? How are they "forensically examining" a Pete Rose signature in blue Sharpie on a Fuji Crystal Archive photo?

After that it is pure signature analysis, and I trust experienced collectors and dealers (and yes, PSA and JSA ) to be more in tune with that than some forensic examiner puffing their credentials with meaningless certificates.

[mschwade]

So from the Services page, am I to assume that to authenticate a Joe Dugan index card it will cost me the same as a Babe Ruth index card?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I found the following on the FAQ section of their website:

How can third party authentication companies authenticate so many different autographs?

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess one of the forensic people over at GFA specializes in the signatures of Nana Visitor & Avery Brooks. The below Avery Brooks/Nana Visitor signed photo is presently on a auction site that I will not name.

Attachment 55040

Attachment 55041

Are you implying this is a case of SSDFE?

[drc]

I didn't get out the subtle nuances of the joke, until I checked out the team.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by drc

i didn't get out the subtle nuances of the joke, until i checked out the team.

[J.McMurry]

Jackie looks to be about 28 at most,but says she's been collecting sports for 30 years. Nice trick.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by J.McMurry

Jackie looks to be about 28 at most,but says she's been collecting sports for 30 years. Nice trick.

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

Like! Absolutely true!!

[Big Six]

1. Does anyone think she's found Net54 yet?
2. If she has, do you think she's found this thread yet?
3. If she has, do you think she had the courage to read each post?
4. If she has read each post, do you think she has a sense of humor?
5. If she does have a sense of humor, that's great. But if she doesn't have a sense of humor, does anyone think she knows any martial arts?

Carry on...

[Mr. Zipper]

In all seriousness, it's one thing to comment on the woman's obvious good looks. However, let's not get too nasty... she is someone's wife, mother, daughter...

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

like

[RichardSimon]

I did a Google search for the forensic document examiner that is listed on the team page of GFA.

This is what I got:

"Your search - John Goraczyk forensic document examiner - did not match any documents."

A search for the other examiner Roger Fenton showed a number of listings for a man who was a photographer in the Crimean War. But no listing for the man listed on the GFA site, unless I missed it somehow.

[yardboy]

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by yardboy

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

Welcome back Pete!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Welcome back Pete!

I'm on it.....yardboy is "Ken Fraley" and if it is Ken, he and I will be having a nice chat today. If it isn't then I will take care of it......LL

[Mr. Zipper]

Anyone else suspect that "Ken" is someone who was tossed off eBay for selling fakes? In my experience, those are the types that tend to attack the TomTresh videos the most vigorously.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Anyone else suspect that "Ken" is someone who was tossed off eBay for selling fakes? In my experience, those are the types that tend to attack the TomTresh videos the most vigorously.

+1

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Welcome back Pete!

I don't think so.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by yardboy

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

I don't mind anyone bashing me for what I say, do or write, but at least be a man about it and show your true identity.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I don't mind anyone bashing me for what I say, do or write, but at least be a man about it and show your true identity.

Well, this gentleman's wife answered the phone, and once he got on the phone, he and I had a very nice 15 minute chat. He totally understands and appreciates trying to keep this place as "real" as possible. He also told me he had a personally signed Mantle autograph that PSA said was questionable and would not certify. I believe Ken is on the same team as us and feels the same way we do. He can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby. best regards

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Leon

He also told me he had a personally signed Mantle autograph that PSA said was questionable and would not certify. I believe Ken is on the same team as us and feels the same way we do. He can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby. best regards

So, another scorned submitter lashing out.

I'm frankly puzzled what people mean when they say stuff like, "can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby."

Were they around in the 90s when literally 80% of the stuff on ebay was fake? Did they go to any of the shows in the 90s when many of the show dealers were selling Marino Family forgeries and no one knew it? Have they forgotten the so-called reputable dealers like B&J Collectibles and Stans Sports selling forgeries by the truckload at shows and in big glossy magazine ads?

Admittedly, the hobby has its issues, but it's way cleaner now than it was a decade ago.

[David Atkatz]

According to Chris, 80% of the stuff on eBay is still crap.
(And 80% of the buyers and sellers don't know what they're doing.

Nice round number, 80%.)

[thetruthisoutthere]

I haven't made a video in about nine months and during that time Ebay has made tremendous strides with help from its members in eradicating forgeries. It will never be 100%, that would be impossible, but Ebay finally took a step forward to removing forgeries from their auction site.

During the last year Ebay added Nicholas Burczyk, TTA (Ted Taylor) and Chris Morales to the "Banned COA" list.

Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, on the "Banned List" and Ted Taylor (TTA and Stat Authentic), Philadelphia Athletics Historian, on the "Banned List" with his renamed authentication company. Congrats to both Taylor and Morales.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

So, another scorned submitter lashing out.

I'm frankly puzzled what people mean when they say stuff like, "can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby."

Were they around in the 90s when literally 80% of the stuff on ebay was fake? Did they go to any of the shows in the 90s when many of the show dealers were selling Marino Family forgeries and no one knew it? Have they forgotten the so-called reputable dealers like B&J Collectibles and Stans Sports selling forgeries by the truckload at shows and in big glossy magazine ads?

Admittedly, the hobby has its issues, but it's way cleaner now than it was a decade ago.

Admittedly I don't collect autographs. I have enough headaches on the card side and I "think" I know what I am doing over there. I did tell Ken, while on the phone, that I think the TPA's have probably helped the autograph part of the hobby "some".....I just don't have enough experience to really know how much. I will let you guys hash all of that out. Ken does collect some autographs and did make the statement I said, and in reading this board, it seems like he isn't the only one that feels this way. Now, there are also those folks that think TPG (the card graders) have hurt that side of the hobby. I disagree with them as I do know that part of the hobby and think they have helped. It still isn't perfect but, to me, is a lot better with them than without them. As one of the SGC guys and myself were chatting this morning, concerning a fairly obvious error they made and are trying to rectify....the overriding sentiment is, "you will never make everyone happy." That's the only thing I am certain of!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Admittedly I don't collect autographs. I have enough headaches on the card side and I "think" I know what I am doing over there. I did tell Ken, while on the phone, that I think the TPA's have probably helped the autograph part of the hobby "some".....I just don't have enough experience to really know how much. I will let you guys hash all of that out. Ken does collect some autographs and did make the statement I said, and in reading this board, it seems like he isn't the only one that feels this way. Now, there are also those folks that think TPG (the card graders) have hurt that side of the hobby. I disagree with them as I do know that part of the hobby and think they have helped. It still isn't perfect but, to me, is a lot better with them than without them. As one of the SGC guys and myself were chatting this morning, concerning a fairly obvious error they made and are trying to rectify....the overriding sentiement is, "you will never make everyone happy." That's the only thing I am certain of!!

It's funny that the same people who complain about the mistakes that PSA, JSA, BGS or SGC make, don't complain when their PSA 10 card/autograph, JSA card/autograph, SGC card or BGS 9.5/10 card sells for a tremendous amount of money because of that PSA, BGS, JSA or SGC high grade or authenticated autograph.

We are all human and we all make mistakes. Some complain because their in-person autograph wasn't authenticated; I don't blame any authenticator who errs on the side of caution as opposed to maybe certing a forgery.

Most collectors have their cards graded or autographs authenticated so that their card or autograph sells for a higher premium.

There was a discussion on the other side about a Ozzie Smith PSA 10 rookie card that sold for $20,000. The collector who got that card graded made a nice penny on that card and the buyer of that card now owns a rare Ozzie Smith PSA 10 rookie card. Both the seller and buyer got what they wanted.