Murray Chass slams Peter Nash

[Jlighter]

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=6099&u...On+Baseball%29

[cardaholic]

is a great way to know less than you did when you started. The highlights of Barry Halper's collection were primarily either stolen or fake. No amount of bashing on Pete Nash can change that.

Beatifying a dead scam artist is actually slightly less stupid (though somewhat more noxious) than Chass's regular comments on the game of baseball.

So, Murray, did Barry Halper ever give you any autographs or memorabilia?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Hard to grasp, but Chass and Halper make Nash look good.

[Exhibitman]

I disagree. Chass laid out the case against Nash quite well. Halper's sins are irrelevant--they do not change the fact that Nash is a cheat and a fraud. His screeds on Hauls of Shame cry out for heavy meds and a team of therapists.

[Jlighter]

Here's a link to a 2011 article mentioned in the current article.

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3644

[Ease]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

His screeds on Hauls of Shame cry out for heavy meds and a team of therapists.

"Pop goes the valium, the valium."

[travrosty]

yeah what a total jerk for saving collectors thousands upon thousands of dollars by outing stolen, fake and counterfeit merchandise from the hobby when they come up for sale.

[wonkaticket]

Anyone who buys into Peter Nash's good guy game is a fool plain and simple. Sorry but I will protect myself. I don't need a con-man and felon to look out for my best interests.

I don't want Jerry Sandusky watching the kids. I don't want to buy bonds from Michael Milken & Bernie Madoff. Not looking to invest in boy bands with Lou Pearlman and I don't need to take fraud and collecting tips from Peter Nash.

In terms of Halper's good name etc. I wish all the jack wagons that suckle at Pete's teat would come up for air and ask Pete to shine some light on his past doings and items vs. piling on a dead guy who no longer can answer anyone. However Peter can answer questions but what's that I hear oh wait....I know crickets.



Cheers,

John

[travrosty]

keep defending the halpers stuff. its hilarious. the baseball hall of fame caught on.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by travrosty

keep defending the halpers stuff. its hilarious. the baseball hall of fame caught on.

Keep defending Nash, you are even more hilarious!

[Rich Klein]

We're off --

Now all we need is Herbie to chime in

[slidekellyslide]

Peter Nash never made it as big as Vanilla Ice and you can still see the anger in him over this.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by travrosty

yeah what a total jerk for saving collectors thousands upon thousands of dollars by outing stolen, fake and counterfeit merchandise from the hobby when they come up for sale.

Seriously? How could anyone with an ounce of discernment lend any credibility to Nash's "findings?" It beggars belief.

[Cardboard Junkie]

"Eyes wide shut!" & "Ignorance is Bliss!"

[sago]

Waiting for Nash to out the Cooperstown forger.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I believe Stephen Carlton Clark forged Cooperstown.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Peter Nash never made it as big as Vanilla Ice and you can still see the anger in him over this.

Best...comment...ever.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

We're off --

Now all we need is Herbie to chime in

Yes, the ever omniscient Herbie Buck aka Peter Nash. Classic how he argues with himself.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Seriously? How could anyone with an ounce of discernment lend any credibility to Nash's "findings?" It beggars belief.

Nash found the ty cobb "signed" ball at heritage to be manufactured after cobb's death. brandon the baseball guy confirmed it and they got the manufacturer to confirm it. so what are you talking about?

why is this "finding" not credible because it is nash dong the heavy lifting and legwork instead of (who would you prefer?)

Where is Heritage in all of this? They have how many experts over there? Let's all just run it through the pope from now on so you can believe it.

It shows the shortcomings (putting it lightly) of these people and entities (not heritage of course) who keep foisting the same dubious items over and over but people LIKE them so they will find fault with the messenger no matter who reveals it. But we keep seeing the same things over and over again.

Stolen, fake, Stolen, fake, Stolen, fake, Stolen, fake. Does anyone here think the honus wagner added signature to the first hof class envelope was a figment of nash's imagination? he proved it got certified with an extremely washed out/erased wagner signature, then later was given a cert with a dark bold wagner signature. why bash nash for that? if he hadn't found it and reported it, we still wouldn't have known about it. but there are people who don't want you to know about it.

If I revealed it you would find out that I broke the tinker toys in kindergarten so who can believe that dastardly R0STE fellow?

It's all the same, has been and always will be until action is taken by those with authority, then the day will come when nobody knew these companies very well anyway, and it will all be arms length. just you watch. Who brags now that they are tight with Mastro and he was awesome? People still don't want to admit that Halper pulled one over them big time because doing so would mean nash is right, so they fail to admit halper couldn't tell the truth. halper looked right into the cameras and lied that he played ball for foxx at miami when we know he didn't.

But when the shoe drops, watch the devoted followers scatter. These places and people who now hold a place of esteem will be denied three times before the cock crows once it is no longer monetarily or socially acceptable to defend them.

Auction house who? and authenticator who? never heard of them. That's what it will be and those who have been here long enough will know that the rewriting of history by disassociating with these companies when people carry water for them all day long will be a bunch of baloney.

Again, most people know that the information he finds is damaging to a hobby where a few run the show and don't like dissenters and there is hell to pay for digging into a story when the names they find at the back of the closet are the same ones who hold power in the hobby. So even though they agree with most of what HOS reveals, they keep quiet out of fear they will be ostracized or blackballed.

They will then go and post that since the revealer is Nash, then the information he presents must be suspect. What a convenient "out". They then get their pat on the top of the head and their scooby snack from the status quo hobby machine that wants to pump out this stuff and not be accountable for it.

[glynparson]

I see parallels between Canseco and Nash. How did that turn out? Just cause the guy has done scummy things does not mean he is not right about a lot of this stuff. Its like the kid in school that gets caught cheating then rats on all the other kids who were cheating. Dont just automatically dismiss what he says because he has done a ton of scummy things of course dont necessarily justbelieve them on face value either.

[Bpm0014]

"Peter Nash never made it as big as Vanilla Ice and you can still see the anger in him over this."

Hobby-wise, I know nothing about Peter Nash. Musically, he was an unbeleivable talent. To mention him and Vanilla Ice in the same sentence is laughable. His group 3rd Bass was definitely not a "one hit wonder". No joke.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I see parallels between Canseco and Nash. How did that turn out? Just cause the guy has done scummy things does not mean he is not right about a lot of this stuff. Its like the kid in school that gets caught cheating then rats on all the other kids who were cheating. Dont just automatically dismiss what he says because he has done a ton of scummy things of course dont necessarily justbelieve them on face value either.

But if the kid is still cheating and ratting then what? Maybe the kid needs to get his own house in order before he snitches on others, no? Nash is brilliant but that doesn't make him clean..and it doesn't make what he says not true. It could be. But until the time he comes clean about all of his issues it will be difficult for a lot of people to take him seriously. Maybe his next article should be on what he has done in the hobby, good and bad. Now that would be a good read.

[MattyC]

Nash's credibility is greatly, greatly impaired, no question-- but to entirely dismiss what he illuminates might be a mistake. Just because someone has committed bad acts, has exhibited poor character, and may even still be doing so doesn't mean every single thing they say is a complete lie.

There could be some truth, even a modicum, in the things he points out. It is up to each individual to evaluate what Nash says and carefully weigh his points and evidence and of course account for his possible motivations. At the very least, though, it could cause collectors to more carefully scrutinize certain items, which is never a bad thing.

I understand the knee-jerk impulse to utterly dismiss the guy, but there's no harm whatsoever in mining his current observations for even a kernel of truth.

I personally agree with Leon's statement above; if Nash really does care about what he's doing and wants his words to be taken as seriously as possible given his past, a self-analytical article would help the matter.

[orator1]

Leon writes: "But until the time he comes clean about all of his issues it will be difficult for a lot of people to take him seriously."

Leon, is he banned from this board? If so, maybe it's time to lift his ban on Net54 to give him a chance to respond to all the negative comments against him.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by orator1

Leon writes: "But until the time he comes clean about all of his issues it will be difficult for a lot of people to take him seriously."

Leon, is he banned from this board? If so, maybe it's time to lift his ban on Net54 to give him a chance to respond to all the negative comments against him.

He is not banned. Never has been.

[wonkaticket]

Peter Nash has had the opportunity many times to come clean and enlighten folks on bogus items or dealings he’s been connected too or implicated in.

However every time he’s asked by anyone including lawyers and judges he magically pleads the fifth.



Does that tell you something…..it should.

[ctownboy]

If those that Peter Nash are ratting out don't like it, don't like Peter Nash and/or know that Peter Nash is ALSO doing illegal or shady things then they too can rat out Peter Nash. What is stopping them?

Honestly, I don't care WHO is ratting out WHOM, just as long as the bad stuff is having the light of day thrown on it, the roaches are being exposed and people are not getting ripped off.

I love my old baseball cards and memorabilia. I love the history behind the stuff. I love that the value went down some during the recession but that I could STILL go to the safe deposit box, pull some stuff out and hold and look at it and think about it (unlike stocks) and that since the economy is bouncing back, the value of my items are increasing also.

However, as I have said before, the more times that wealthy people, new collectors or young people are ripped off, the more chances that they will NOT come back to the hobby and our valued collectibles will lose that value and become nothing more than old things.

I do not want that to happen and am glad that somebody, ANYBODY, is willing to stand up and point out wrong doing in the hobby (business); whether they themselves are a rat or not.

If these people pointing fingers ARE rats then I am sure, in time, THEY will have fingers pointed back at them and they will get their due.

David

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

If those that Peter Nash are ratting out don't like it, don't like Peter Nash and/or know that Peter Nash is ALSO doing illegal or shady things then they too can rat out Peter Nash. What is stopping them?

Many are not pointing fingers they are taking him to court, slapping him with judgments, fines and garnishing wages in order to pay settlements owed etc. etc. etc.

Many folks were affected by this guy and those folks don’t have blogs or the time to start smear campaigns against Peter Nash…just because he has the time to do these things shouldn’t mean that others should play his game back.

[howard38]

[

[tschock]

While I would take what Nash says with a grain of salt, the simple question (in my mind) is: "Has he brought to light actual cases of fraud and bogus material in the hobby?"

It seems like those with an valid axe to grind against Nash conveniently choose to ignore this simple question and the cases where he has done this. It seems like those with a pro-Nash stance seem to point to this as a proof of his positive influence while avoiding all his own nefarious dealings. There IS a middle ground here.

Nash's writing is a lot like the National Enquirer. A lot of hot air and misinformation... except for the times when they hit the nail on the head and cover something everyone else wants to ignore and sweep under the rug.

I would question the wisdom of anyone expecting results from sending a saint into the den of thieves.

[frankb22]

Jose Canseco.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Dang! It's tuff to read this thread and get a good vein to show at the same time.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

But if the kid is still cheating and ratting then what? Maybe the kid needs to get his own house in order before he snitches on others, no? Nash is brilliant but that doesn't make him clean..and it doesn't make what he says not true. It could be. But until the time he comes clean about all of his issues it will be difficult for a lot of people to take him seriously. Maybe his next article should be on what he has done in the hobby, good and bad. Now that would be a good read.

Never going to happen. If you go to the 'about the author' link on 'Hauls of Shame', this is as close as he comes. Doesn't sound like someone even close to coming clean:

But from 1989 to 1995 Nash experienced the dark side of the baseball collectibles field as he discovered, with the help of his friend and world renowned handwriting expert Charles Hamilton, that close to a quarter million dollars worth of materials he’d purchased were either bogus or stolen goods.

[wonkaticket]

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ha ha ha! Now THAT'S funny!!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

"Peter Nash never made it as big as Vanilla Ice and you can still see the anger in him over this."

Hobby-wise, I know nothing about Peter Nash. Musically, he was an unbeleivable talent. To mention him and Vanilla Ice in the same sentence is laughable. His group 3rd Bass was definitely not a "one hit wonder". No joke.

Maybe true, I don't know...Hip hop and rap were not my cup of tea back then so I paid them no attention. I never heard of 3rd Bass or Pete Nice (Nash) until he was brought up in this forum. Vanilla Ice was bigger than 3rd Bass simply because people who did not listen to that music knew who he was. I could ask a dozen people on the street the question "who was bigger? 3rd Bass or Vanilla Ice?" What do you think the outcome of that poll would be?

As far as talent goes, I have no idea...I watched a few 3rd base Bass videos a couple of years ago and they were just as funny as Vanilla Ice. Were they supposed to be funny?

[howard38]

.

[Jlighter]

New article.

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=6116

[glynparson]

In my opinion he can be a big time scumbag forger and telling the truth about other forgeries. I am not defending the person just trying to point out that he could be exposing others work to throw some off his own. I do not believe everything he has pointed out to be lies. In fact I do believe some things have been shown to be correct. No doubt he has brought more harm than good to the hobby but that does not mean some of these allegations don't deserve some investegating. It sometimes amazes me at some of the people that would rather not expose the negatives of the hobby. I think many are afraid that if everything came to light their valuable collections would suffer huge financial losses. I do not think this would be the case. I tend to believe in the long run good real stuff would be worth more as there would be less items even if there were less participants/ collectors due to a major hobby shake up.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Bad guys can become good guys and vice versa. People change. I think many of Hall of Shames allegations warrant further investigation. What concerns me is the the Hall of Fame and the NYPL don't seem concerned about investigating missing items. If Nash is the Cooperstown Forger he should come clean. Dave

[bigtrain]

It is my understanding that the artifacts housed in the Baseball Hall of Fame and anything articles donated to the Hall of Fame are the property of the State of New York. Therefore, one would think that the State Attorney General's Office would be interested in investigating missing items.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

New article.

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=6116

A pure horse* response from Chass.

"2. Does any of this change the fact that so many of the ‘vintage’ jerseys Halper sold to MLB for them to donate to the HoF were fakes? (And that Halper’s stories of provenance could not possibly have been true?)" - Valid point.

"Reader No. 2 chose to ignore Nash and his crooked schemes and question the honesty of Barry Halper" - What reader 2 pointed out are facts (first sentence). While the implication might be there, the reader isn't claiming Halper intentionally did this. Halper's stories could be simply mis-rememberences? (benefit of the doubt)

"In the interest of full disclosure, I don’t know Nash, talked to him on the telephone once, and knew Halper, though I had no knowledge of his memorabilia activities."

Really? So what he is telling us is that he has no knowledge yet is going to "report" on it like he does? One would think at this point that Chass would then go on to investigate something he doesn't know anything about, but he doesn't do this. The rest of the article is fluff in an attempt to bolster Halper. Nothing wrong with backing someone you know/like, but don't offer what is presented here as hard-hitting proof of anything. It's just another way to "slam" Nash.

As questionable of a character as Nash is, he sure seems much better at reporting on fraudulent activities than Chass. Maybe it takes one to know one.

"People like Nash, however, make the memorabilia business more suspect." - Maybe it should be. And why again is that a BAD thing? While nothing to do with actual fraud, a good example on how the memorabilia business cannot simply rely on faith or even provenance. http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page...o-clemente-bat

[Cardboard Junkie]

Sports Collecting Blues

First Take Nash
Who lost some cash
through lawsuits
or so it seems.

Then there's Halper
A real scalper
with his bogus
memorabilia schemes.

Last there's Chass
a bonified JackA$$
for reporting his
wildest dreams.

[Rich Klein]

that Herbie Buck may actualy exist.

RIch

[MattyC]

There have been many cases throughout history in which a former criminal eventually became a valuable resource for exposing or helping authorities catch his own kind. Frank Abagnale comes to mind, who was the subject of Spielberg's film CATCH ME IF YOU CAN.

Chass' utter dismissal of his quoted "Reader #2" makes him look quite lazy, or at least not at all interested in delving deeper and perhaps finding things that might sully a late friend's reputation. All Reader #2 did was point out that Nash's issues are one thing, and other fakes are another thing.

[TexasLeaguer]

Originally Posted by MattyC

There have been many cases throughout history in which a former criminal eventually became a valuable resource for exposing or helping authorities catch his own kind. Frank Abagnale comes to mind, who was the subject of Spielberg's film CATCH ME IF YOU CAN.

The difference is that Abagnale and Canseco came clean first, and then started ratting out everyone else. Nash maintains his innocence, so it's harder to take him seriously.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by MattyC

There have been many cases throughout history in which a former criminal eventually became a valuable resource for exposing or helping authorities catch his own kind. Frank Abagnale comes to mind, who was the subject of Spielberg's film CATCH ME IF YOU CAN.

Chass' utter dismissal of his quoted "Reader #2" makes him look quite lazy, or at least not at all interested in delving deeper and perhaps finding things that might sully a late friend's reputation. All Reader #2 did was point out that Nash's issues are one thing, and other fakes are another thing.

Frank Abagnale spent 5 years in prison.

[Eric72]

I am a bit late to this discussion. Additionally, I do not know much regarding the principal players in this drama. Having said this, I am wondering something.

Since it seems, to me, that items of questionable authenticity have come into focus, what is the harm in verifying (or repudiating) their legitimacy?

Regardless of who puts a particular item in the spotlight, a genuine article will stand on its own merit and a fake should not withstand strict scrutiny, right?

Just curious here...not trying to stir the pot.

Best Regards,

Eric

[HRBAKER]

I think the point most are making is that until he comes clean or at least addresses his own transgressions (in the same area I might add), it's a little tough to embrace his crusade. It doesn't make anything he says necessarily false, it's just a little hard to take on some level.

[Yankeefan51]

I have had the great fortune of being a 30- year collector. I have had the opportunity to meet a plethora of world class collectors, some brilliant dealers and more than a few scoundrels along the way.

As I have started to wind down (for personal reasons). the number of low life
accusers who believe the web grants permission to write and say whatever they want about whomever they want is disappointing.

The guilty ones, like the dictator of North Korea, instill fear in all, and hope that no one will notice that the real purpose of their posts is to cover their crimes, bad debt and lies that are the canvass of their life. Perhaps, we need to return to the days of the Old West, and literally hang the scum of the hobby out to dry.

Like terrorists, these liars deserve no mercy. They will make good target practice for the NRA. Long live the hobby!


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List