How much should I spend on a 1952 topps psa 1 Mantle?

[vic84]

I'm in the hunt for mantle RC and seems like the psa 1 and below is all I can afford. How much should I pay on a psa 1 ? I seen a lot but all are different prices.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vic84

I'm in the hunt for mantle RC and seems like the psa 1 and below is all I can afford. How much should I pay on a psa 1 ? I seen a lot but all are different prices.

When buying a PSA 1 it really depends on eye appeal so the prices will vary a lot. A 1 could look like it went through the washer/dryer or could look like a 5 but have damage on the back and they would command very different prices. Good luck on your search.

[vic84]

Thanks for the info

[pawpawdiv9]

Good luck in your search, i seen some fugly ones and some decent ones...but eye appeal can probably cost north of 7500 i expect, and some of those ugly ones are even asking that and up to 9-10k, but dont sell on Ebay. You might have a good chance at better quality ones, that are Auth, but altered. But thats your choice to decide.
Hunt had one that eneded yesterday that was very nice, but had a very small re-glue damage on the number on the reverese, but it looked nice for 5,445.00 bid
http://huntauctions.com/phone/imagev...=137&lot_num=3
Now is that something you like???

[Brianruns10]

In these types of situations, I like Card Target. It aggregates sales data for cards sold on ebay, and the various auction sites, and more often than not has photos as well, so you can compare price trends, by grade, and within those grades see which cards fetched higher prices. I find it tremendously helpful when I'm trying to decide how much over SMR I want to pay when I'm bidding on a particularly well centered example of any given card.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

In these types of situations, I like Card Target. It aggregates sales data for cards sold on ebay, and the various auction sites, and more often than not has photos as well, so you can compare price trends, by grade, and within those grades see which cards fetched higher prices. I find it tremendously helpful when I'm trying to decide how much over SMR I want to pay when I'm bidding on a particularly well centered example of any given card.

Agreed. Just note that this particular card has seen a bit of a price increase over the last year when looking at any of the older data/price points on there.

Personally, I'm a fan of the authentic examples and paid more for my authentic example than I did for my PSA 1 given the much better eye appeal.

[vic84]

Nice pics ...Yea there is one on Ebay a PSA1 that I can get for 9400 but that's too much I ..Ill just sit and wait to snatch one at a better price...Is SGC 10 poor 1 worth the money?

[MattyC]

All depends on the card in question and its eye appeal. Within any grade there can be huge price differences.

[ls7plus]

I understand the urge to own a '52 Topps Mantle, but please, please don't call it his rookie. That card is in the 1951 Bowman set!

Regards,

Larry

[pokerplyr80]

I would think you could find a decent looking psa or sgc 1 in the 7-8k range and a not so decent looking one in the 5-6k range.

[vic84]

Thanks for the feedback Gentlemen

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by vic84

I'm in the hunt for mantle RC and seems like the psa 1 and below is all I can afford. How much should I pay on a psa 1 ? I seen a lot but all are different prices.

psa 1s can be had for $900 - $2500 depending on eye appeal, of course im talking about the rc you referenced and the 51 bowman. a much better looking card in my opinion and you're not really paying for the hype.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

I understand the urge to own a '52 Topps Mantle, but please, please don't call it his rookie. That card is in the 1951 Bowman set!

Regards,

Larry

Call it whatever you want. You would have company either way....and it annoys the Bowman guys . If you want to be politically correct you can call it his Topps rookie card and the Bowman his "real" rookie card, or, go for both cards and then be indifferent to this recurring discussion

Good luck in your quest

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

psa 1s can be had for $900 - $2500 depending on eye appeal, of course im talking about the rc you referenced and the 51 bowman. a much better looking card in my opinion and you're not really paying for the hype.

But will the savings between the Bowman compared to Topps translate into better returns in the future? The prices for the 52 Topps Mantle continue to go up, can the same be said for the 51 Bowman and expect that card to keep pace with Mantles Topps card? I'm not sure the hype behind the 52 Topps Mantle will ever go away, really don't see much hype behind the Bowman card though. ROI for the Topps card seems greater than the Bowman card. Or am I missing something?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Call it whatever you want. You would have company either way....and it annoys the Bowman guys . If you want to be politically correct you can call it his Topps rookie card and the Bowman his "real" rookie card, or, go for both cards and then be indifferent to this recurring discussion

Good luck in your quest

I have no clue why SGC calls it his rookie card. It isn't by any definition.

[begsu1013]

i wasn't clear that he was buying for investment purposes.

as for investment purposes though, we have to establish time frames here for a proper debate...

we talking 6 months or are we talking 10 years?

and we are only talking about psa 1's, correct?

do psa A's count as psa 1s? they do on the registry...

and then are we talking ROI in percentages or are we talking dollars?

are we establishing the overall risk of the investment? $2K is a much easier hit vs $20K.


not only that, I can not say w/ any certainty that we are in a bubble on the 52. some can argue that fairly easily.

as a owner, i certainly hope the strong prices continue to rise.

however, as a buyer i sure hope they plummet.

i'm honestly good either way.

and one good asteroid could make the whole thing moot, anyways.

[Laxcat]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I would think you could find a decent looking psa or sgc 1 in the 7-8k range and a not so decent looking one in the 5-6k range.

Great info guys. I'm in the same boat. Just curious what I should look to spend for, let's say, not quite fugly 1. 4.5-6k?

[KCRfan1]

Bob, I'm not sure he's buying for investment purposes, but I think it needs to be taken into account as part of the decision process.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Laxcat

Great info guys. I'm in the same boat. Just curious what I should look to spend for, let's say, not quite fugly 1. 4.5-6k?

For that range you will be lucky to find one with decent eye appeal. If you're ok with an altered card you should be able to find a better looking card for somewhere around the 6k range.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

For that range you will be lucky to find one with decent eye appeal. If you're ok with an altered card you should be able to find a better looking card for somewhere around the 6k range.

Are they really that steep right now? That makes me so thankful I picked up mine when I did.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Are they really that steep right now? That makes me so thankful I picked up mine when I did.

Actually based on the last couple VCP reported sales and the asking prices on ebay my estimates may have been on the low side.

[cammb]

I would wait for a better one. Sooner or later the bottom is going to fall out on this highly overated card.

[MetsBaseball1973]

Sounds like some real sour grapes there, LOL! The sun is rising tomorrow, no matter what.

Demand for this icon far outstrips supply. And always will. Some of the people who want a nice one but can't afford one (of which I am admittedly one) make futile attempts to blind themselves to the decades of history this amazing card has. I find it funny. I'm just going to work hard to get one, one day. OP hope you get a winner that makes you happy to spend time with every day!

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Bob, I'm not sure he's buying for investment purposes, but I think it needs to be taken into account as part of the decision process.

lou,

I agree 100% and wholeheartedly. but i think we all have certain cards in our collection that we paid well over the norm because of certain sentimental reasons behind that particular card/year/player and the avg price/investment side wasn't really of concern.

i also think there's been a little more focus by collectors on the actual card these days vs the actual flip. which is a good thing, imo.

we are seeing nice 52 4's selling for $35K+ and crap 5s still not breaking $30K, however a few years ago it'd almost be taboo to pay more for any 4 than what a 5 had previously sold for.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by cammb

I would wait for a better one. Sooner or later the bottom is going to fall out on this highly overated card.

If the price does start falling all the people who keep saying this and advising others to follow this advice will help drive the price right back up. You all are serving as our market diversification.

[KCRfan1]

Nice insight Bob.

About a year ago, I remember someone posting the comment, " The only people who believe Mantle cards are overvalued are people who don't own them. "

[begsu1013]

I would certainly agree w/ that quote as well!

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

lou,

I agree 100% and wholeheartedly. but i think we all have certain cards in our collection that we paid well over the norm because of certain sentimental reasons behind that particular card/year/player and the avg price/investment side wasn't really of concern.

i also think there's been a little more focus by collectors on the actual card these days vs the actual flip. which is a good thing, imo.

we are seeing nice 52 4's selling for $35K+ and crap 5s still not breaking $30K, however a few years ago it'd almost be taboo to pay more for any 4 than what a 5 had previously sold for.

I agree with this post 100%. Especially when it comes to collectors being all about the specific, actual card, which is increasingly the case these days.

I feel that when it comes to iconic key cards especially, it's almost as if the population of all examples can be parsed into two discrete pools: the really nice ones for any grade and the "average" ones. The cards that fit in the former category are in effect rare, in terms of how nice they look, the eye appeal they provide their owners, and these cards have their own unique behavior, selling for large premiums.

As Bob said, a dead centered 3 will sell in a blink for 24k with people clamoring for it. A "meh" 3 won't move at 17k. Same goes proportionately across all grades. This is personally always how I have shopped.

When it comes to the 1952 Topps Mantle, how many of the existing graded population are actually really great looking-- in terms of not tilted, or nicely centered, or no blemishes in the blue background? 1 in 10? 1 in 20? Fewer than that? (Even some of the very high graded examples have tilt and their centering is right on the edge for the technical grade assigned.) Then let's compare the amount of really nice ones to the demand for such examples...

For those seeking a lower graded #311, say in the technical grade and thus price range of 4 and below-- how many of the #311s in grades 1 to 4 do we really think are those "special" or freakishly "high-end" cards like that famous 3 that sold a little ways back? Probably only a handful of gorgeous examples in that grade range, which makes those cards very unique, to me. I'd expect the competition for a gorgeous 1 or 2 at auction to be outrageously fierce.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

"The only people who believe Mantle cards are overvalued are people who don't own them."

+ Infinity.

Doubly so if they are centered

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by MattyC

+ Infinity.

Doubly so if they are centered

Centered cards are overrated

[GregC]

To expand on what Matt said, when you get down to the grade level the op is considering the pool of truly good looking examples gets even more shallow. Assuming you don't want to explore the Authentic/Altered market and are looking for a numerical grade, a centered, relatively clean psa/sgc 1.5 or lower becomes something of a unicorn.

I was shopping in this range last year and it was tough to find a centered card. Luckily I stumbled across one privately and avoided any competition for it. Considering that higher grades are out of many collectors budgets I would think demand for this range would be fierce.

[begsu1013]

here's a fun lil test for the op.

both cards are psa graded and "X"represents your budget.

both cards have creases and staining. and both are available for the same amount of $X. which one would you pick...

A:





OR



B:

[Jdoggs]

A looks better. The background is very faded blue on B and the card looks obviously altered.

[Donscards]

A. I love the colors

[begsu1013]

keep'em coming...

[pawpawdiv9]

First off. those are two different variations, type A (complete logo box) and type B (squiggly signature box)
I however like the bold rich colors in the A. both have the crease across the face, tho A shows up more prevailant in the bolder color. I was tempted to go with B, but the big stain at the hat disturbs me, the right edge border on B, i could live with on it.

[pokerplyr80]

I think the second card looks better. Less staining and the creases aren't as severe. And I can't tell if the white dots on the first are some kind of residue or paper loss. But either way they don't do much in terms of eye appeal for me. I'm assuming the second is the altered card due to the right border, but it's clearly the nicer of the two.

[KCRfan1]

I love the color in example A. The colors pop so much more in example A than example B, inwhich the colors look washed out.

[egri]

I can live with the stains in A, not the muted colors of B.

[begsu1013]

pretty strong finish for a 1951 psa 4.5!

sounds like it "mighta" been a 6 at some point, but the guy cracked it out and resubmitted and lost (maybe). if not, brilliant marketing strategy!

but get's back to the point where people are appreciating the cards vs the flips. gotta be a new high for the grade!

(apologize, used to be able to do links properly, but something is messed up)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...vip=true&rt=nc

EDIT: AND HE INITIALLY THREW IT UP W/ A BIN @ $6500.

[CW]

I think that may be a record for a PSA 4.5, although an SGC 55 sold at REA last summer for $7800.

The auction did have a few red flags, too, like the fact that he had it graded this year yet the holder had no front hologram (I guess early this year they still weren't out?). The seller mentioned he pulled the card from a pack at age 8, and the photo made the holder appear to possibly have some frosting on the right edge. Just seemed like a weird auction. I had a snipe placed and was somewhat relieved it was blown out of the water.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

pretty strong finish for a 1951 psa 4.5!

sounds like it "mighta" been a 6 at some point, but the guy cracked it out and resubmitted and lost (maybe). if not, brilliant marketing strategy!

but get's back to the point where people are appreciating the cards vs the flips. gotta be a new high for the grade!

(apologize, used to be able to do links properly, but something is messed up)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...vip=true&rt=nc

EDIT: AND HE INITIALLY THREW IT UP W/ A BIN @ $6500.

I really doubt the card was real, he said he had paperwork to prove the submittal and then wouldn't provide it ...if trying to sell a high dollar card why say you have something and not provide it...big red flag

..Q: Kind of strange that you re-submitted the card this year yet it doesn't have the new PSA Hologram on the flip. Also I've never heard of a company downgrading a card 1.5 points on a re-submit. If this occurred I assume... Continue reading
A: DAN, THIS CARD IS EXACTALLY AS I GOT IT BACK FROM PSA. I HAVE THE PAPERWORK TO PROVE IT.AND I ALSO HAVE THE ORIGINALGRADING STRIP FROM THE FIRST TIME IT WAS GRADED. AND NO..I DID NOT GET ANY MONEY FROM PSA. THEY EVEN CHARGED... Continue reading


aside from there being a long back story on a key card ie. (found in the attic, got from a storage locker...had it regarded'.....

[begsu1013]

I read that prior to posting which makes me assume it was a crack-out resub, hence the pic of the old flip. psa would never give the flip back.



as for the hologram. I just got cards back yesterday from psa via fedex that didn't have the new label/barcode on the back...

am i missing something on where he never produced paperwork?

and not much recent feedback but looks like he did sell another 51 mantle about a year ago and posi fb left.

hell, who knows.

[MattyC]

Real or not, we are really starting to see the 51B grab some props. What impresses so much about the difficulty of the 51B Mick is the registration problems-- if the Yankee cap isn't blurry, it's the outline of the bat. Then there's the centering. Then there's those two, or sometimes one, vertical lines. It's a major card and also so hard to find a nice one, despite the very misleading overall pop number.

[pokerplyr80]

I actually discussed this one while it was up with another member who was considering it. My thought was that the answers to the questions, will possibly true, were strange to say the least. And I didn't like the face that the only other card he had sold was another 51 Mantle a year ago. Given the uncertainty I'm surprised it closed as high as it did.

Nice card though and certainly an unfortunate downgrade if the story is true. That one probably goes for 4-5k more in a 6 holder.

[begsu1013]

we all agree that there was a degree of shadiness to the seller / listing. maybe it was legit. maybe it wasn't.

BUT...

imagine if there wasn't the slightest bit of doubt and what this card really woulda sold for...

let's not lose sight that it garnered $7700 w/ a questionable seller. couple that w/ the referenced sgc card that sold @ $7800.

definitely some nods to the 51 and good to see!

it may be the 51's proverbial turn at bat since just about everybody is getting pushed outta the 52 market.

...would be just plain impolite to call it the "trickle down effect", but it looks like that's exactly what could be happening

and brings this thread around full circle.

[pokerplyr80]

I can't argue with that. For the price of a beat up 52 PSA 1 that the OP was asking about someone bought Mantle's true RC dead centered in a PSA 4.5. I think the gap will narrow eventually between the two. The 51 is one of the most under valued cards, and certainly the highest profile card that's under valued, if by no other standard than when compared to the 52, in my opinion.

[MattyC]

I agree with the two posts above. As someone who's been collecting mostly Mantle for over a year now, always looking to acquire pretty cards, I see it happening to all his basic issues lately. Last year we saw the 62 pop. Now the 56. Recently the 57 went nuts at auction. That 53T in 8 went crazy high on eBay, great card that was. Come to think of it the 59 also has a few very high sales lately.

The 52B, 53B, and 54B are so hard to find with great eye appeal, I think the next pretty one of each and every of those will turn heads with auction results. I look like a madman for those and can't find them. The one time I saw a nice 52B and 53B, I made sure to reel them in. Love the man's cards!

[begsu1013]

love all the bowmans as well.

high graded mantles have always done well but as for the above mentioned 4/4.5s and all lower grades:

no statistician here but w/ the 52t outta sight, i expect to see the lower grade 51b's start to take precedence as the "achievable goal". once they exit the orbit then we'll see the shift towards post 52 cards. of course, the other 52 card suffers from middle child syndrome. he's got big brother topps and lil baby 51b to compete with. 52b just kinda get's lost in the shuffle and its a shame, as she's a gorgeous card!


i am only talking the lower graded and somewhat obtainable ones....as matt said, it's simple supply and demand and demand is through the roof right now. all of these record prices and news coverages and headlines are bringing in more eyes. there's gold in them there man-tle's

it's good for certain reasons, bad for others.


in the end, it is what it is. seeing a sketchy 4.5 reach nearly $8K and reading about another sgc doing the same is utterly eye opening to me. just wish i woulda snagged up a few more examples which i'm sure rings true w/ the rest of the collecting world...

you kick me, i'll kick you?



.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

pretty strong finish for a 1951 psa 4.5!

sounds like it "mighta" been a 6 at some point, but the guy cracked it out and resubmitted and lost (maybe). if not, brilliant marketing strategy!

but get's back to the point where people are appreciating the cards vs the flips. gotta be a new high for the grade!

(apologize, used to be able to do links properly, but something is messed up)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...vip=true&rt=nc

EDIT: AND HE INITIALLY THREW IT UP W/ A BIN @ $6500.

the fact the no one bought it at a bin for 6500 still says somethings...I wouldn't be assuming all 4.5s go for 7k now...