What is Carlos Beltran's rookie card?

[Peter_Spaeth]

What a mess LOL. He is in 1995 Topps Traded, but it isn't his picture, it's Juan Lebron. He's pictured on Lebron's card. He has a 1995 SP Prospects but it's a minor league card. He next appears in some 1997 Bowman issues. So?

[swarmee]

1995 TOPPS TRADED CARLOS BELTRAN 18T according to the PSA Future HOF set registry. I tend to agree. He's the one labeled on the card, even if the picture isn't him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

1995 TOPPS TRADED CARLOS BELTRAN 18T according to the PSA Future HOF set registry. I tend to agree. He's the one labeled on the card, even if the picture isn't him.

I guess that's right but it seems stupid to buy a card with someone else pictured.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guess that's right but it seems stupid to buy a card with someone else pictured.

I’m sure Johnny Ray is nodding in agreement somewhere...


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[Yastrzemski Sports]

You can always get both the Beltran and the Lebron cards and keep them as a pair. But I agree that the one with his name is his rookie.

As far as the future HOF registry, I don’t think his career numbers are as good as Harold Baines. And we all know what people think of his induction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

You can always get both the Beltran and the Lebron cards and keep them as a pair. But I agree that the one with his name is his rookie.

As far as the future HOF registry, I don’t think his career numbers are as good as Harold Baines. And we all know what people think of his induction.

Sabrmetrics would violently disagree.

Beltran
JAWS
Center Field (9th):
69.6 career WAR / 44.4 7yr-peak WAR / 57.0 JAWS

Baines
JAWS
Right Field (74th):
38.7 career WAR / 21.4 7yr-peak WAR / 30.1 JAWS

[KingFisk]

The 1995 traded is considered his primary rookie, even with someone else pictured. It was dirt cheap about three years ago when I got mine. Once it went into pre HOF registry, I imagine it picked up.

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[Yastrzemski Sports]

As a shop owner, I have considered it misleading (at best) to label someone as a future HOF. I don’t think there is any place for that in the hobby. Some of the people on the list have very little chance of getting in and haven’t gotten much support. I feel bad for anyone buying a Miguel Tejada, Juan Gonzalez, Todd Helton, Gary Sheffield or even Gil Hodges Rookie with the thought he is going to be in the hall some day because PSA said so.

[HRBAKER]

How can someone's RC be a card with someone elses pic on it? Just bc Topps made an error and PSA anoited it so with its magic registry wand?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

How can someone's RC be a card with someone elses pic on it? Just bc Topps made an error and PSA anoited it so with its magic registry wand?

I think the market would have made that choice irrespective of PSA. I want no part of that card, but I think the name controls the picture.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the market would have made that choice irrespective of PSA. I want no part of that card, but I think the name controls the picture.

It's the card I bought years ago, as it is the flagship rookie, despite the huge error. It never bugged me all that much, because it's just Carlos Beltran, not an all time great.

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[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the market would have made that choice irrespective of PSA. I want no part of that card, but I think the name controls the picture.

So we are really collecting words in this instance.

[KingFisk]

Who else are you buying? I did this a few years ago, ticking all of the guys in the Hall of Stats and guys destined for it. Grabbed Lofton, Edmonds, Abreu, etc. Fun to collect for sure.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Who else are you buying? I did this a few years ago, ticking all of the guys in the Hall of Stats and guys destined for it. Grabbed Lofton, Edmonds, Abreu, etc. Fun to collect for sure.

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In that spirit I've bought, let's see, Vizquel, Moyer, Sheffield, Walker, Belle, Mattingly, Gooden, Canseco, Schilling, off the top of my head. Nomar. Dwight Evans. Tiant. Munson.

[KingFisk]

Nice! I don't have a Moyer yet but would like one. Actually it's because of this second and third tier rookie hunt, I bought Harold Baines in PSA 9 for ten bucks....

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[Peter_Spaeth]

More non HOFers (leaving roids out of it) I have -- Maris. Dave Parker. Strawberry. Oliva. Dick Allen. Kaat. Tommy John. May add a Lou Whitaker and Bobby Grich.

[KingFisk]

Spend enough time on here and you'll end up hunting for Sal Bando, Ted Simmons, Reggie Smith...

http://www.hallofstats.com/

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Spend enough time on here and you'll end up hunting for Sal Bando, Ted Simmons, Reggie Smith...

http://www.hallofstats.com/

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Yeah that site as I recall rates Lou Whitaker and Scott Rolen in their top 100, dunno about that.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah that site as I recall rates Lou Whitaker and Scott Rolen in their top 100, dunno about that.

If you like WAR as a stat Lou is at 75.1 and Rolen is at 70.2.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

If you like WAR as a stat Lou is at 75.1 and Rolen is at 70.2.

Damn, I may have to reconsider then. I guess there's something to consistency?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Damn, I may have to reconsider then. I guess there's something to consistency?

And terrific defenders at premium positions. I am curious how much of their WAR relates to defense.

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[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah that site as I recall rates Lou Whitaker and Scott Rolen in their top 100, dunno about that.

Both Whitaker and Rolen have been underrated during their careers. Rolen is actually considered a good HOF candidate and will probably get in as a Veteran's committee player and frankly Whitaker should have gotten a chance to run out the ballot. He is certainly as good if not better as a HOFer than most of the Frankie Frisch clique which all got in during the 1920's (Bancroft, Youngs, Lindstrom, etc.)

Regards
Rich

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Both Whitaker and Rolen have been underrated during their careers. Rolen is actually considered a good HOF candidate and will probably get in as a Veteran's committee player and frankly Whitaker should have gotten a chance to run out the ballot. He is certainly as good if not better as a HOFer than most of the Frankie Frisch clique which all got in during the 1920's (Bancroft, Youngs, Lindstrom, etc.)

Regards
Rich

I think Whitaker should have gotten in before (or at least the same time) as Trammell.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Spend enough time on here and you'll end up hunting for Sal Bando, Ted Simmons, Reggie Smith...

http://www.hallofstats.com/

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I agree those names are unlikely to get elected. But I also think that we could easily list 20+ (or more) Hall of Famers who are less deserving.

Full disclosure: My brother built and runs that site.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I agree those names are unlikely to get elected. But I also think that we could easily list 20+ (or more) Hall of Famers who are less deserving.



Full disclosure: My brother built and runs that site.

Oh awesome! I love that site. Your brother does great work.

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[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Oh awesome! I love that site. Your brother does great work.

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Thank you. He got the brains in the family, and I all I got were these darn good looks

On the bright side, I can say I'm only the SECOND biggest baseball geek in my family!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Harold Baines fares extremely poorly on Hall of Stats.

[KingFisk]

Rick Reuschel and Kevin Appier never passed this sniff test for me.

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