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  #1  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:34 PM
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KEVIN MIZE
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Default T206 players who should be in the Hall of Fame, but are not

If you only had 2 votes...Mine would be Ed Reulbach (Chi.) and Bill Dahlen (Brooklyn/ Bos.) Reulbach had incredible stats, and pitched 2 one hitters in the same double header. Dahlen hit safely in 72 of 73 consecutive games and was a great player and competitor....
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:55 PM
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Dahlen came to mind as soon as I read the question.
My other choice is Mike Donlin, but he's my favorite player from this era, so I'm biased.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:04 PM
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Wild Bill Donovan
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:37 PM
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Default t206'ers who should be in the hall

Gavvy Cravath and ed reulbach come to mind...
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:10 PM
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george mullin put up some very nice numbers, and if i remember correctly threw a no-no on the 4th of july
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:19 PM
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I agree with Kevin that Bill Dahlen should be in the hall.
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:26 PM
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Is there a time limit after which a player can no longer can be considered for the HOF? Dahlen for sure, not sure on second choice yet
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:39 PM
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Any common player I own with a so called "rare" back should be put into the HOF.
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:50 PM
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Dahlen was very close on the last vote of the pre-integration veterans committee. I think he only missed by a couple of votes. He could make it next time that committee votes-- which is in 2015 I think.

Ginger Beaumont also deserves consideration. He was one of the very top hitters of the first decade of the AL.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:37 PM
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I'd go with Bill Dahlen also. There's no real clear cut 2nd choice. I agree with Ginger Beaumont being a decent candidate. If Nap Rucker pitched for the Giants rather than the Dodgers he might already be in as well.
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2013, 07:15 PM
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How about Wilbur Cooper? Not sure if he is part of the set, but he was the
1st lefty in the NL to win 200 games and he is probably the best pitcher that the Pirates have ever had.
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:03 PM
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Dahlen and Rucker
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:08 PM
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Deacon Phillippe

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...hillde01.shtml

Won 20 games 6 times...2.59 ERA

Last edited by MVSNYC; 07-24-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:21 PM
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Reulbach and Dahlen. Beaumont - maybe.
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  #15  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:09 PM
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Chase

Rucker.
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:20 PM
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Larry Doyle.
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:33 PM
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Hal Chase here, other then gambling from what I read he was the best of his time
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:04 AM
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None. It is not the Hall of "Very Good."
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:38 AM
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Steven,

Take a look at some of the T206 hofers. Many are just "very good."

Dahlen was better.

Rob
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOF Yankees View Post
Hal Chase here, other then gambling from what I read he was the best of his time

Sure. And other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:32 AM
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Johnny Kling, the Cub catcher, was a winner and his stats match up pretty much with Bresnahans.
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:16 AM
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We probably could do a better thread on players in the T206 set who are in the hall of fame but shouldn't be...but that wouldn't be nice. I always though Turkey Mike Donlin was worthy and I definitely could see Larry Doyle.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:47 AM
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I would say the most likely future HOFer is Bill Dinneen. It would be as an umpire but it counts! Umpired 8 WS tying Connolloy's AL record, first AS game.
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:48 AM
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As a player, Phillippe should be in.

Last edited by bender07; 07-25-2013 at 07:48 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:49 AM
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Johnny Kling was the best catcher of that era and one of thebest ever. The only year between 1906-1910 the cubs didnt get to the worls series was the year Kling took off. nuff ced!
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:01 AM
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Larry Doyle. He was the best NL second baseman of his generation. When he retired he held the career records for a second baseman in slugging percentage, hits, doubles, triples, total bases, and extra base hits.

If you're the best player of your generation at your position in your league you should be in the HOF.
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:30 AM
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George Mullin. He has some nice stats. 230 career wins. 2.82 career ERA. Won 20+ games multiple times (6x maybe?). Worthy....
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:47 AM
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Bill Dahlen for sure. He fell just two votes short last year but I think he will make in 2015 when he is up for consideration again.
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  #29  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Larry Doyle. He was the best NL second baseman of his generation. When he retired he held the career records for a second baseman in slugging percentage, hits, doubles, triples, total bases, and extra base hits.

If you're the best player of your generation at your position in your league you should be in the HOF.

I absolutely agree. A power hitting second baseman with a batting title and MVP. I think, even for his time, Doyle was underappreciated.
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  #30  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:47 AM
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I just don't understand what's keeping Doyle out. You can't compare him to players after his time. In his own time he was hands down the best second baseman to ever play in the National League. No one before him was better. How is he not in?
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  #31  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:48 PM
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I also agree with Larry Doyle and Johnny Kling being good choices...
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  #32  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:26 PM
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Here's to hoping. My collection's sole surviving signed T206

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  #33  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:58 PM
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Glad I am not the only one who thought Doyle should be in. Agree with all of the above reasons, personally I think had the Giants won the world series one of those three years they took the pennant, that would have changed things in more people's mind at the time of his playing and even shortly after.
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  #34  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:36 PM
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Default Deadball Greats

Running through those who have been offered, I would support the following, with a few added:

Ginger Beaumont
Gavvy Cravath
Bill Dahlen
Bill Dinneen (as an umpire)
Turkey Mike Donlin
Wild Bill Donovan
Larry Doyle
Johnny Kling
Ed Konetchy
Arlie Latham
Tommy Leach
Sherry Magee
Clyde Milan
George Mullin
Deacon Phillippe
Jack Quinn
Ed Reulbach
Nap Rucker
Wildfire Schulte
Cy Seymour
Jimmy Sheckard
George Stovall
Jesse Tannehill
Fred Tenney
Doc White


Close to HOF status:
Bob Bescher
Eddie Cicotte
Harry Davis
Chief Meyers
Al Orth
Heinie Zimmerman
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  #35  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:52 PM
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Can we please agree that Eddie Cicotte, Hal Chase and Heinie Zimmerman not be inducted into the HOF regardless of their talents or statistics? They all played greater roles than Shoeless Joe Jackson did in the gambling problems that plagued baseball in that decade.
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  #36  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Can we please agree that Eddie Cicotte, Hal Chase and Heinie Zimmerman not be inducted into the HOF regardless of their talents or statistics? They all played greater roles than Shoeless Joe Jackson did in the gambling problems that plagued baseball in that decade.
Agreed...But you got to admit, they were 3 pretty colorful characters! Also, I am still a little skeptical as far as Shoeless Joes goes pertaining dishonesty...I guess we'll never know, but that can be another thread!!

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 07-25-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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  #37  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
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Default How could we forget Fielder

How could we forget Fielder Jones? Paul Mac Farlane, former archivist for The Sporting News, makes Fielder's case on the back of a 1987 baseball card (see attached scans).
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  #38  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Can we please agree that Eddie Cicotte, Hal Chase and Heinie Zimmerman not be inducted into the HOF regardless of their talents or statistics? They all played greater roles than Shoeless Joe Jackson did in the gambling problems that plagued baseball in that decade.
+1.
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  #39  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Can we please agree that Eddie Cicotte, Hal Chase and Heinie Zimmerman not be inducted into the HOF regardless of their talents or statistics? They all played greater roles than Shoeless Joe Jackson did in the gambling problems that plagued baseball in that decade.
-1

I guess not - at least not until the steroids issue is settled. Check out these figures for WAR (Wins Above Replacement) from Baseball-Reference.com. Until the steroids issue is resolved, for me the Bondses and Clemenses will be on my "close to HOF" list - together with Cicotte and Zimmerman. With the cloud surrounding their on-field performances, they hardly rank among the all-time great Hall of Famers that the list below might imply.

Babe Ruth 163.20
Barry Bonds 162.53
Willie Mays 156.09
Ty Cobb 151.08
Hank Aaron 142.39
Roger Clemens 140.30
Tris Speaker 133.94
Honus Wagner 130.59
Stan Musial 128.13
Rogers Hornsby 126.97
Eddie Collins 123.99
Ted Williams 123.16
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  #40  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:06 PM
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You can think whatever you like about steroid users, but they took these drugs in an effort to improve their performance.

Cicotte, Chase and Zimmerman deliberately allowed their teams to lose in order to collect money for themselves. I'm not defending steroid use, but not all cheating is the same. Steroid users still tried to win at all times. Throwing games is the worst thing a ballplayer can do (on the field, of course).
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  #41  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:20 PM
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I always wondered how Doyle, captain of the Giants when the Giants were the Yankees, never made it. He was the offensive leader of the perennially dangerous Giants lineups all through the 1910's.
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  #42  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfinley View Post
None. It is not the Hall of "Very Good."
ahh, but it's not the hall of great either. It's the Hall of "Fame". I must admit, I'm one of those that thinks more should be let in.
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  #43  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagechris View Post
ahh, but it's not the hall of great either. It's the Hall of "Fame". I must admit, I'm one of those that thinks more should be let in.
Actually, this dictionary defines Fame as Great.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fame
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  #44  
Old 07-28-2013, 06:47 AM
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Default Great renown

Great renown is not the same thing as being great. It just means widely known.
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  #45  
Old 07-28-2013, 07:40 AM
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Default Hof

**OK, sorry - now I go back and read the title - Dahlen or Doyle most likely. If it were expanded to other players, pre or post-war, I'd vote for Allie Reynolds. That (..strings on who should be in), I realize opens up another can that has been opened often and endlessly in the past.

Curious if there's been a string on someone in the HOF who they felt should not be (for whatever reason)?

Last edited by Edwolf1963; 07-28-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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