Mantle cards as investments

[ALR-bishop]

From todays WSJ

http://www.wsj.com/articles/you-shou...rds-1475618712

[GasHouseGang]

I'll just admit I can't see it. When I click the link it says I need to subscribe or sign in. So what'd it say?

[ALR-bishop]

It focuses only on his base Topps cards and shows their appreciation from 2006 to 2016 in top condition . For example for the 52 card it shows a 674 % appreciation on the high end, but has comparisons for each base card. No Bowman comparisons, nor test issues, regionals, inserts, ect. Overall for all his Topps base cards, 52 to 69, it posits an appreciation of 544 %. The analysis is through 9-10-16

[KCRfan1]

Beats what the bank pays!

Do we need to start a mutual fund that buys baseball cards?

[ALR-bishop]

Who is our best candidate here to manage such a fund ?

[Cooptown]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Who is our best candidate here to manage such a fund ?

Matty C

[Cooptown]

You Should’ve Kept Your Mickey Mantle Cards

How one Topps 1952 baseball card became a better investment than gold, stocks and real estate


By Michael Salfino


In 1960, Topps Co. cleared space in its cramped Brooklyn warehouse by renting a barge, loading it with boxes of baseball cards that had sold poorly and dumping them in the Atlantic Ocean.

Nearly 60 years later, that renegade housecleaning maneuver has inadvertently created one of the hottest niche investments of the past decade: the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle card.

The card, Mantle’s first for Topps, was number 311 in a series the company issued to retailers mostly candy stores late in the 1952 season, after the card market for that year had already petered out. The series was ignored by consumers and retailers returned them to the company by the caseload. The card’s designer, Sy Berger, several years later couldn’t sell these surplus cards, including the Mantle, for even 10 for a penny. So they were dumped.

“It took three garbage trucks - I would say 300 to 500 cases,” said Berger to Sports Collectors Digest before his 2014 death. “I found a friend of mine who had a garbage scow and we loaded the three trucks-worth on the barge. I was out there with it. Opposite Atlantic Highlands, a few miles out.”

With most of the ‘52 Mantle inventory condemned to the bottom of the ocean, the few that now circulate are the center of a boom market that still hasn’t peaked despite a huge spike in value over the past decade.

The card’s soaring value will get a big test next month in an online auction of a ‘52 Mantle, graded at 8.5 on a scale of 10. Some investors speculate that the price could reach $1 million or more by the time bidding ends November 17.

The card in investment grade condition is incredibly rare. According to Professional Sports Authenticator, only 44 of the 1952 Mantles exist in near-mint-to-mint or better condition. As a result, the value of the card graded an 8 has jumped from an average of $63,859 in 2006 to $494,000 today, according to VintageCardPrices.com, which establishes card value by tracking actual sale prices on eBay and at auctions.

That’s a 674% increase in 10 years, compared with gold (85.2%), New York City median housing prices (40%) and the S&P Index (58.5%) during the same period.

In a trading card market that has its ups and downs, Mantle cards are a shining bright spot and not just the rare 1952 card. Mantle’s other investment-grade condition cards issued by Topps, owned today by Michael Eisner’s Tornante Co., have increased 245% in the same period.

The 1956 Mantle (up 300%) is much more common but still prized because that was his Triple Crown year. The 1962 Mantle (316%) is his final MVP season and tough to get in investment-grade condition because of its design. The 1966 is up 211%, for no apparent reason other than aesthetics.

“Mantle’s Topps cards are the focal point of every advanced collector’s portfolio and it’s been that way for as long as the hobby has existed,” says Brian Drent, president of the Mile High Card Company, a Denver-based auction house for baseball cards and sports memorabilia. But prices weren’t tracked as carefully before 2006 as they have been since.

The Hall of Fame Yankee slugger, viewed by his fans during his playing days as a real-life Superman in baseball’s Metropolis, retired nearly 50 years ago. His on-field exploits aside, he has some advantages over others when it comes to long-term value.

“Yankees have always held a fascination with collectors. From [Babe] Ruth and [Lou] Gehrig on,” said collector Jim Elliott, a New Jersey-based music industry consultant and former radio personality in New York City and Washington, D.C. “The hold that Mantle had on people now in their 60s is amazing. People cried when he died” in 1995.

Yet his power as a collectible extends far beyond those old enough to have seen him play.

“The demographic sweet spot is 40 to 60 years old,” said Rob Rosen, vice president of Dallas-based Heritage Auctions, which is conducting next month’s auction. “These are collectors motivated more by a fascination with the history of the game than nostalgia for their own childhood experiences.”

Rosen says his clients view and display their Mantle cards like fine art. “And when my clients place iconic sports memorabilia like this even next to Picassos, men actually are far more impressed by the Mantle card.”

Matt Corin, a San Francisco-based card seller via his company, The Postgame Show, recounts a story from a baseball card convention two years ago when an “avid Mantle fan” told him he was cashing in his stock portfolio to buy the most highly prized Mantle card, the 1952 Topps. He was there with his wife “who did not seem nearly as enamored” with the iconic Yankees slugger. As she nervously looked on, he plunked down slightly over $200,000 for the piece of colored cardboard graded an 8. Today that same card would be expected to bring in about $500,000 at auction, according to VintageCardPrices sales data.

Next month’s auction will serve as the next marker for an investment that so far has only shot up.

“The last time an 8.5 sold was three years ago (for $275,000),” said Heritage’s Rosen. “Mantle cards are a piece of American iconography as well as one of the most reliable investments in the collectibles’ universe.”

Unfortunately, however, they are not waterproof.

[mattjc1983]

A relevant question is, is something an investment if you're knowingly buying it at the top of the market?

Granted, "top" doesn't necessarily mean "peak" but I certainly don't go out of my way to buy my stocks when they're at the highest price they've been at in recent history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ALR-bishop]

No one would want to buy at the "top" of the market, but I wonder how many investors buy a stock because they read an article in the WSJ about how well it was doing and hoped the trend would continue, even though the ship had likely sailed.

I read the article as more of a "you should have kept you cards because..." rahter than you should buy now.

[rjackson44]

if you got these 15 years ago you did very well ..

[ALR-bishop]

Larry S ( sflyank) has raised this question before. Given the increase in his Topps base cards reflected in the article and in particular his 52 card which is certainly not hard to find, why has there not seemed to be a similar jump in his rare or scarce Topps items that would be on the list of any master Mantle collector...such as Topps 61 Dice, 63 Mask, 66 or 67 Punch Outs, 67 of 68 Discs , or 67 Stand Up. All of these would fetch a high price but probably no where near a top notch 52 card

I get that odd ball items are not as well known in general and so demand is less, but Mantle collectors surely know about them and getting some of those items is next to impossible. Just a matter of curiosity to me.

These things do not come up often and given the current Mantle market if they did maybe the prices would be significantly higher than in the past

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Larry S ( sflyank) has raised this question before. Given the increase in his Topps base cards reflected in the article and in particular his 52 card which is certainly not hard to find, why has there not seemed to be a similar jump in his rare or scarce Topps items that would be on the list of any master Mantle collector...such as Topps 61 Dice, 63 Mask, 66 or 67 Punch Outs, 67 of 68 Discs , or 67 Stand Up. All of these would fetch a high price but probably no where near a top notch 52 card

I get that odd ball items are not as well known in general and so demand is less, but Mantle collectors surely know about them and getting some of those items is next to impossible. Just a matter of curiosity to me.

These things do not come up often and given the current Mantle market if they did maybe the prices would be significantly higher than in the past

The 63 Mask probably isn't a Topps product, but, the few that I have seen for sale over the last year or two seem to have brought a decent price, despite being poorly listed on eBay and despite red flags.

The others don't trade hands enough, in my opinion, for us to really get a fair look at the price. How could they when you and Larry own basically everything that exists? That said, I don't think they get as much respect given their lack of appeal to the less informed collectors. The Master Set guys "need everything" and have resigned themselves to never being able to pick those up either because you have them all or because of the price, and they don't have the same appeal to the non-collectors with the massive bankrolls that just want that one trophy item. If I should a Dice Game card to a non-collector, he would say, "that's kind of boring looking." Every non-collector that was a kid in the 80s is excited when they see a 1952 Topps though.

[larietrope]

I'm a long time friend of Bobby Richardson, we have a breakfast group that meets every Friday called the ROMEO club, retired old men eating out.
I often kidded Bobby that I could afford his cards but not Mickey Mantle's.
Bobby's a wonderful person, very humble, friendly, and always goes out of his way to make a stranger feel like a long time friend.
Great stories about the Yankee days. He and Kubek were the milkshake twins.
He always signs his autograph in a beautiful, very legible way. He explained he met Stan Musial as a kid and got his autograph. He was so impressed with Musial's autograph quality that when people began asking for his autograph he promised himself that if people were nice enough to ask for his signature he'd write it as nicely as possible. Look at any Richardson autograph and you'll see what I mean.
A quality man.
I do have 2 1952 Topps Mantles. I've had for many, many years.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by mattjc1983

A relevant question is, is something an investment if you're knowingly buying it at the top of the market?

Granted, "top" doesn't necessarily mean "peak" but I certainly don't go out of my way to buy my stocks when they're at the highest price they've been at in recent history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have a saying about that: Bulls and Bears can each make money, but Pigs get slaughtered! Except for a few very scarce to outright rare Mantles, IMHO, it is a very good time to sell, with a good chance that you will be able to buy back later at a significant discount. See the coin market of the late '80's.

Good luck, guys,

Larry

[Volod]

One of my fondest collecting fantasies involves a demo crew in a NY suburb opening up an old warehouse padlocked for sixty years and finding hundreds of cases of pristine 1952 Topps high-numbered cards that had somehow escaped the stachybotris and mildew threats. I wonder what that might do to the investment potential of Mr. Mantle's card?

[glynparson]

The Rare Mantle Test Issues especially the dice game would sell for a fortune in a Heritage, REA, Goodwin Auction. Maybe not 1952 Topps 9-10 money but it would be a pretty penny.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

The Rare Mantle Test Issues especially the dice game would sell for a fortune in a Heritage, REA, Goodwin Auction. Maybe not 1952 Topps 9-10 money but it would be a pretty penny.

And I think Glyn would agree that those that have them, i.e., knowledgeable collectors, know full well what they have, treasure them, and are in no hurry to get rid of them. I would expect them to come out only in situations of financial distress (heaven forbid--been there) or in an estate auction.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

Unfortunately, much of the attention (and money) of less 'focused' collectors goes into cards like the 1952 Mantle: great but not rare. Truly rare cards are all too often truly obscure cards as well. It may be a hell of a lot easier to find a 1952 Topps Mantle than a dice game, but it is also a hell of a lot easier to find willing buyers for it.

It also seems that once a card achieves a certain level of notoriety, its price is not determined the same as the rest of the cards out there, by basic collector demand and supply. It becomes iconic and takes on a life of its own as a pop culture icon. The line about guys displaying their Mantle cards next to their art is telling in that regard.

[ls7plus]

It has been my experience over several fields of collectibles that rare and significant (in this case, the significance derives from the fact that it is Mantle) wins out in the long run. In coins, see the six-figure values attached to colonials and territorial gold when 15 or less are known. That was definitely not the case in the early '90's. Same with cars: '71 Hemi Cuda convertible (about 12 made; worth seven figures, and not considered a very good combination at the time of its manufacture due to the awesomely heavy 426 hemi motor, coupled with the heavier weight of the convertible and less stiffness in that body style--cowl shake, anyone?); and '67 L-88 Corvette (with the very radical, race-only 427--just 20 made, and who knows how many survived? Not even known of by many Corvette enthusiasts of the time; now $3-$4 million dollars all day long).

Similarly, Shelby's Daytona Cobra Coups, an aerodynamic design by Pete Brock in the sixties, were obsolete race cars by the late '60's to early seventies, and someone bought all six for $12,000--Shelby was glad to get rid of them, Now? 22 million dollars apiece, per Automobile Magazine.

Thinking a little outside the box may get you miles ahead in the long run--it's your chance to take!

Best of luck in collecting,

Larry