The new breed of collectors...

[ullmandds]

I thought it'd be fun to discuss the "new collector/investor" in the hobby and how their thoughts/preferences/expectations differ from older collectors such as myself.

In my opinion some of these "preferences" will either contribute to the demise of the hobby...OR...will become the new norms for the future.

I'll start!

Finish the phrase.

The new breed of collectors...worship the slab...not the card.

[Snapolit1]

The new breed of collector grew up in a world of the Internet. You will see far few posts about putting cards in the spokes of a bike, trading with your friends in third grade, and flipping cards against a wall. Like everything else in the universe, time marches on and things become something else.

[Johnny630]

The new Collectors doesn't care about commons or set building.

[butchie_t]

The new collector has no concept of the history of card collecting and does not want to deal with the minutiae of the historical significance.

And they are more interested in pump and dump then the actual collecting of cards.

[FrankWakefield]

With apologies to George Phair...



How dear to my heart is the old-fashioned collector,
Who wrote to fellow collectors to see what they had.

They do not resemble today's collector/investor who puts cards
In plastic and never touches a card.

The new breed of collectors worship the slab, not the card.
Would letting go of pop reports and slabs be so hard?

The old fashioned collectors knew the players, their stories, and life,
They did not consider the cards as investments in such.

And those are the reasons I hanker and long for,
The old fashioned collector who would mentor the novices,
Who loved and knew the history of the game,
Who thought of a card as an historical connection to a player.



Who was George Phair, the fellow that wrote two of my favorite poems.

Where did I encounter his poetry, by reading The Glory Of Their Times.

What is The Glory Of Their Times, just about the best baseball book ever.


The new collectors are good for the old collectors who are selling their collections. And that's about the end of the 'good'. A fellow can invest in a stock, and depending on the stock he can maybe collect dividends while owning the stock. A ball card doesn't pay dividends. It might appreciate in value... but it isn't ever going to pay dividends.

Anyone ever lose a ball card, misplace one, have one stolen, or damaged from a spill, or from opening an envelope? Anyone ever lose ownership of a stock because it was stolen from them, or misplaced, or you spilled coffee on it? Some guys buy insurance for their collection... a brokerage account is covered by SIPC insurance, and if your holdings approach the $500k limit, then open another account, it'll have the same insurance and limit. Golly, stocks, bonds, mutual funds are better investments than ball cards.

[ullmandds]

Many new collectors don't seem to care about card altering as long as the card ends up in a slab...this is the most disconcerting to me!

[LEHR]

My take:

New collectors will continue to drive the hobby even after we are all gone. Everything evolves or it dies. No one can expect a new collector in 2022 to act the same as a new collector in 1962, or even 1982. Old time collectors do not have to condone, respect, or appreciate the changes in the hobby, but change is inevitable.

[rjackson44]

was at a show recently everyone with cameras videos .thought i was at a hollywood premiere .omg lol

[parkplace33]

The new collector knows all comps.... and isn't afraid to say your prices are too high.

[mintacular]

I don't consider them "collectors' in any stretch of the imagination. They shouldn't be given that compliment

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I don't consider them "collectors' in any stretch of the imagination. They shouldn't be given that compliment

What he said!

Cheers,

B. T.

[timzcardz]

The new breed of collectors . . . have potential.

I was at the Hofstra Show with a friend a couple of weeks ago. My knees were aggravating me after standing and walking around for a couple of hours, so as we were leaving I sat on a bench outside while my friend went to get the car.

While sitting, there was a kid, maybe 15, also sitting on the bench, going through a case with cards in it.

Nearly 50 years his senior, we still had a very pleasant conversation.

I asked him if he had anything good, and what he collected.

He told me he had some Saddiq Bey basketball cards. (To be honest, at the time I had no idea who Saddiq Bey was) He collected him because they had the same last name. Yes, the cards were shiny and new, and some in slabs, but he had a genuine interest in the cards for a reason that was special to him.

We chatted a bit more, and then his mother arrived to pick him up. He said goodbye and wished me a good day.

He could not have been more polite, or more engaging in conversation about what he collected.

So if this hobby is about being interested in the cards, and sharing that interest with other collectors, then I believe that there is potential in the new breed of collectors.

[Snapolit1]

Nice story. Seeing anything on the board these days that is not just gloom and doom is refreshing.

Bunch of old men sittin' around complaining. The game is dying. The hobby is dying. Kids today have no respect for anything. Bla bla bla.

Originally Posted by timzcardz

The new breed of collectors . . . have potential.

I was at the Hofstra Show with a friend a couple of weeks ago. My knees were aggravating me after standing and walking around for a couple of hours, so as we were leaving I sat on a bench outside while my friend went to get the car.

While sitting, there was a kid, maybe 15, also sitting on the bench, going through a case with cards in it.

Nearly 50 years his senior, we still had a very pleasant conversation.

I asked him if he had anything good, and what he collected.

He told me he had some Saddiq Bey basketball cards. (To be honest, at the time I had no idea who Saddiq Bey was) He collected him because they had the same last name. Yes, the cards were shiny and new, and some in slabs, but he had a genuine interest in the cards for a reason that was special to him.

We chatted a bit more, and then his mother arrived to pick him up. He said goodbye and wished me a good day.

He could not have been more polite, or more engaging in conversation about what he collected.

So if this hobby is about being interested in the cards, and sharing that interest with other collectors, then I believe that there is potential in the new breed of collectors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Many new collectors don't seem to care about card altering as long as the card ends up in a slab...this is the most disconcerting to me!

From what I've seen that applies to many old collectors too. Sure, some may pay lip service to it, but they go right on buying with the same minimal or nonexistent due diligence.

[Touch'EmAll]

The new breed of collectors ...

Are fueling the much higher prices we are seeing nowadays - nice !

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Nice story. Seeing anything on the board these days that is not just gloom and doom is refreshing.

Bunch of old men sittin' around complaining. The game is dying. The hobby is dying. Kids today have no respect for anything. Bla bla bla.

LOL remember the song Kids from Bye Bye Birdie, what was it, 1960?

Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Nice story. Seeing anything on the board these days that is not just gloom and doom is refreshing.

Bunch of old men sittin' around complaining. The game is dying. The hobby is dying. Kids today have no respect for anything. Bla bla bla.

I resemble that remark. Excuse me sir, I'll be right back.

[G1911]

I'm an old-school all-buy no-sell 'who-cares-about-value' type, but I'm a youngin', so I've spent a lot of time in the Discords with the new collectors and hung out with a lot of them.

I don't think they are really collectors. It's 80% about money, they do tend to think the cards are cool. They don't know much about the cards, the slab is king. But then again, it's old collectors who will pay thousands for vintage commons in a PSA 10 slab, so slab is king generally among both groups.

They are very open about pumping, though they don't seem to have much of a real economic understanding about the dump part. It's pump, pump, pump. They'll organize specific pumps together, but don't seem to realize what exactly they are doing, it's 'adding value through awareness' and they aren't organizing a 'dump' after the pump, so it's a little weird. They've spent a lot of time listening to Gary Vee and motivational stuff, no time studying mathematics or economics.

What I would consider ethics appears to be non-existent among the Discords. The only rule seems to be seller must deliver card to buyer. That's it. They can lie about condition, cover up problems, ignore alteration, whatever. Not really different again, the older breed of collectors have also been scamming and lying for decades, but the difference is the relative openness about this. I suppose a lot of it is because many of these guys come from the sneaker hobby that makes ours look squeaky clean.

While they lack in ethics (I have found this problem among the older sellers just as much, just with more obfuscation), they are extremely easy to deal with. There's no long back and forth. They'll say you're price is too high and make their offer, and that's usually their price, not a negotiation step. They are much, much better at using data. They will use actual comps instead of fantasies, and come correct with it.

They're also pretty nice, in their own way. They are pretty open it's mostly about adding value and making money, but they see it as a fun side hustle as opposed to making the same money doing a job. There's definitely an enjoyment factor. They'll chat pretty openly about most everything. If someone gets ripped off, like a card they bought had its photo taken at an angle to hide damage, there is no huge fight or spat. It's a 'you win some, you lose some, fair play' shrug. They tend not to be affluent, they tend not to be poor. They're making extra side money, but most of them I've chilled with or talked too are working decent jobs.

I can't say I've really had any negative interactions; I just don't like the approach. It's not really much different from the older collectors in the main; it's largely about money, there is an enjoyment factor, it's not a job but it's some extra cash and the cardboard is always related to the paper. It's just a different style of the same classic format from a different generation. I'd prefer the hobby be like it was 80 years ago, with things worth almost nothing and it just being about fun, but it hasn't been that way for decades.

The only thing true about generalizations is that they are untrue, but that's my 2 cents on the recurring takeaways from my talks with these gents.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not responding to or directed at anyone in particular, but IMO the notion that one can't care about value or even profit and be a "true" collector is both nonsense and offensive.

[G1911]

I don't think any of this breed even self identifies as a collector. They are investors, entrepreneurs, as they see it. Wall Street Bets with cardboard.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Nice story. Seeing anything on the board these days that is not just gloom and doom is refreshing.

Bunch of old men sittin' around complaining. The game is dying. The hobby is dying. Kids today have no respect for anything. Bla bla bla.

It's much worse at spots like "vintage baseball photos" groups on facebook. Those have basically just three subjects on a daily basis:

- Old is better than new

- Starting pitchers today throw fewer innings (what a fresh news bulletin eh)

- Nolan Ryan is the most amazing creation ever dropped into the universe

[BobbyStrawberry]

This is a fascinating discussion.

I'm wondering if the issue here–rather than any kind of generational/age difference–is money. As has been discussed in other threads, "true" collectors, in a sense, have been forced to reckon with their having become investors, whether they like it or not.

Cards I purchased two years ago with no intention of ever selling have gone up in value 2, 3 times or more. Obviously, many older collectors are experiencing this phenomenon even more strongly.

Were there pure "investors" (equivalent to those people today who don't even care what's inside the slab) in the hobby 30, 40, 50 years ago?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

This is a fascinating discussion.

I'm wondering if the issue here–rather than any kind of generational/age difference–is money. As has been discussed in other threads, "true" collectors, in a sense, have been forced to reckon with their having become investors, whether they like it or not.

Cards I purchased two years ago with no intention of ever selling have gone up in value 2, 3 times or more. Obviously, many older collectors are experiencing this phenomenon even more strongly.

Were there pure "investors" (equivalent to those people today who don't even care what's inside the slab) in the hobby 30, 40, 50 years ago?

I don’t think it’s that different from 30 years ago. 30 years ago was about the time a card bubble burst, after a ton of people came in investing in rookies as the hype built and built and production increased to meet the demand. I think most of those investors are not too dissimilar from todays new batch. I think it’s very different from 50 years ago. 1972 is about when money first started to slowly creep in.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Were there pure "investors" (equivalent to those people today who don't even care what's inside the slab) in the hobby 30, 40, 50 years ago?

I'd say that wasn't happening back then, because most cards had such little value up until the '80s (and they weren't considered as much more than collectible novelties). But now that they've had a steady basis as substantial assets for the last 40 years, it's a totally different ballgame to consider them as investments.

Edit: like Greg said, 30 years ago is entirely different than 50 in this case. I was referring just to <1980

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

The new Collectors doesn't care about commons or set building.

Agree...I think collecting sets will likely decline - particularly as the prices of vintage increase. And probably those that appreciate collecting master sets and all the variations, as well.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I don't consider them "collectors' in any stretch of the imagination. They shouldn't be given that compliment

Exactly, they are more investors or in some cases gamblers (or whatever you call someone who buys lottery tickets)

[Snapolit1]

Yep.

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

It's much worse at spots like "vintage baseball photos" groups on facebook. Those have basically just three subjects on a daily basis:

- Old is better than new

- Starting pitchers today throw fewer innings (what a fresh news bulletin eh)

- Nolan Ryan is the most amazing creation ever dropped into the universe

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yep.

A wise man once told me:

“The good old days weren’t really that good. They were just old”

[wazoo]

Hmm. Never a good idea to generalize a demographic. Some of us are in it gor the long run…

[Bridwell]

The new "higher end" collector/investor is moving funds from the stock market, or low yield bonds, or out of crypocurrency into sports cards that are perceived to be a safer investment with more upside potential.

Cards of famous players selling for more than $1000 each are like gold nuggets the investor can store for a time, enjoy, show off, and then resell when the next hot investment comes along. The "Blue Chip" players like Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, and Jackie Robinson are easy for them to spend big bucks on.

These types of investors are used to buying at "market", which is the price it takes to win the auction no matter how high. The price to win is the current value, in that flawed logic.

[FrankWakefield]

I agree, that is what they're doing.


And for us old geezer collectors, it is what we did to the collectors of Cracker Jack prizes. Those folks were seeking rings, tops, puzzles, figurines, and then along comes those "Cracker Jack Ball Players" cards of 1914 and 1915. Those prizes were tough enough to find without baseball card collectors running up the price on all of those cards.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Hmm. Never a good idea to generalize a demographic. Some of us are in it gor the long run…

I agree with Waz here. Generalizing a demographic is not the best idea. I assume there are several new young collectors on this board that just don't post very often but are reading threads and learning about the hobby and it's history. It's the flashy investors that are running up prices and exploding the hobby right now. But there are many new collectors that aren't investors.



.

[ALBB]

I fully get it - old collectors getting older..young collectors are.....a.....young !

But whats tough to take is I see 75% pokemon stuff at shows....I get it ..its hot..like way back in the beany baby days....but feels that more comic/toy/non sports show stuff

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm an old-school all-buy no-sell 'who-cares-about-value' type, but I'm a youngin', so I've spent a lot of time in the Discords with the new collectors and hung out with a lot of them.

I don't think they are really collectors. It's 80% about money, they do tend to think the cards are cool. They don't know much about the cards, the slab is king. But then again, it's old collectors who will pay thousands for vintage commons in a PSA 10 slab, so slab is king generally among both groups.

They are very open about pumping, though they don't seem to have much of a real economic understanding about the dump part. It's pump, pump, pump. They'll organize specific pumps together, but don't seem to realize what exactly they are doing, it's 'adding value through awareness' and they aren't organizing a 'dump' after the pump, so it's a little weird. They've spent a lot of time listening to Gary Vee and motivational stuff, no time studying mathematics or economics.

What I would consider ethics appears to be non-existent among the Discords. The only rule seems to be seller must deliver card to buyer. That's it. They can lie about condition, cover up problems, ignore alteration, whatever. Not really different again, the older breed of collectors have also been scamming and lying for decades, but the difference is the relative openness about this. I suppose a lot of it is because many of these guys come from the sneaker hobby that makes ours look squeaky clean.

While they lack in ethics (I have found this problem among the older sellers just as much, just with more obfuscation), they are extremely easy to deal with. There's no long back and forth. They'll say you're price is too high and make their offer, and that's usually their price, not a negotiation step. They are much, much better at using data. They will use actual comps instead of fantasies, and come correct with it.

They're also pretty nice, in their own way. They are pretty open it's mostly about adding value and making money, but they see it as a fun side hustle as opposed to making the same money doing a job. There's definitely an enjoyment factor. They'll chat pretty openly about most everything. If someone gets ripped off, like a card they bought had its photo taken at an angle to hide damage, there is no huge fight or spat. It's a 'you win some, you lose some, fair play' shrug. They tend not to be affluent, they tend not to be poor. They're making extra side money, but most of them I've chilled with or talked too are working decent jobs.

I can't say I've really had any negative interactions; I just don't like the approach. It's not really much different from the older collectors in the main; it's largely about money, there is an enjoyment factor, it's not a job but it's some extra cash and the cardboard is always related to the paper. It's just a different style of the same classic format from a different generation. I'd prefer the hobby be like it was 80 years ago, with things worth almost nothing and it just being about fun, but it hasn't been that way for decades.

The only thing true about generalizations is that they are untrue, but that's my 2 cents on the recurring takeaways from my talks with these gents.

great post, good insight... thanks!

[Leon]

One thing I don't care for, nowadays, is all of the fake names. I just denied a guy into the FB Net54baseball group because he used 3 different names. I called him and spoke to him and he was nonchalant telling me one was a FB name and so on. I told him that rubs me the wrong way and find another forum or group. Then I banned him from here also. He had never posted but registered 5 yrs ago.
**If anyone on this forum knows someone here, using a fictitious name, please PM me and they will be shown the door. I had one I was looking into but that email got lost.
Thanks for the help.
.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Hmm. Never a good idea to generalize a demographic. Some of us are in it for the long run…

I've been thinking that throughout reading this thread. I, for example, am a 15 year old vintage set builder.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by John1941

I've been thinking that throughout reading this thread. I, for example, am a 15 year old vintage set builder.

Well, as a 15 year old you just learned a very important lesson . . . avoid making generalizations across large groups of people.

Good luck with your sets!

[Hordfest]

The New collector is me...

I'm 32 years old, inherited some vintage baseball cards and have really dived into things. I have been dabbling in different areas, mixture of vintage and modern, set building, sealed, singles, etc. trying to find out what I enjoy.

I will say that it is a huge turn off for me when old school collectors gatekeep. There are a ton of helpful people on this forum, but as i can clearly see on this thread, there are some old timers who think that because they have been in the hobby for 40 years, that their opinion is sacred and that their way of collecting is the only way. All that does is push us away.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Hordfest

The New collector is me...

I'm 32 years old, inherited some vintage baseball cards and have really dived into things. I have been dabbling in different areas, mixture of vintage and modern, set building, sealed, singles, etc. trying to find out what I enjoy.

I will say that it is a huge turn off for me when old school collectors gatekeep. There are a ton of helpful people on this forum, but as i can clearly see on this thread, there are some old timers who think that because they have been in the hobby for 40 years, that their opinion is sacred and that their way of collecting is the only way. All that does is push us away.

I'm not sure why it's a virtue not to care what the cards are worth. How many people collect art without regard to value? I agree there's a bit too much sanctimony sometimes.

[darwinbulldog]

I'm glad when I was a younger collector the older collectors didn't have so much disdain for me. Or at least didn't seem to.

[Hordfest]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not sure why it's a virtue not to care what the cards are worth. How many people collect art without regard to value? I agree there's a bit too much sanctimony sometimes.

Agreed. Unlike the older generation, I will not have a pension, I probably won't have social security, I have seen prices skyrocket and wages plateau (and I'm a banker with a good job. ) Unfortunately, the reality is that I do need to care about card values to an extent. I have a masters degree in History so the historical element is also important to me, but card profitability and price changes are something that weighs heavily on me when I consider my family's future.

[Snapolit1]

I am sure in every collecting hobby there are people who act like the ultimate test of purity is to care less about what any of it’s worth. Really pretty silly as others have pointed out. At some point our collections will be sold buy us or others. Can’t take it with you as they say. Valuation is hardly beside the point. You can collect out of love of the game and love of collecting and also hope your stuff appreciates in value.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I'm glad when I was a younger collector the older collectors didn't have so much disdain for me. Or at least didn't seem to.

They did, but they didn't express it like most do today because of the internet/social media.

[homerunhitter]

As us old farts are getting older, do you think that the younger collectors are really going to be into set building as we are now? Meaning do you think set building will eventually die out amongst the newer collectors entering our hobby?

Has anyone ever got to a point in their collecting where they thought, why even collect all this cardboard because in the end you can’t take it with you! So why collect? Just curious to everyone’s thoughts on this.

[conor912]

Let’s not forget there was a point in time not too long ago where a lot of old-time collectors were predicting a market crash and the death of the hobby due to a lack of young blood. Now we have that young blood and everyone is complaining about what they are doing. To borrow from the Stones, the hobby might not have gotten what it wanted, but it got what it needed. Even if 80% of the newcomers go by the wayside at the first sight of the next shiny thing, the last few years have brought in a lot new guys who really do love it. We need to give some time for the dust to settle.

[Orioles1954]

I work for an auction house that is connected with a card shop. I normally stay on the auction house side of the building but do go over to the shop from time to time. The new generation of collector is generally much more focused on singles and can care less about complete sets, team sets, building a set, etc.
I've noticed a dramatic increase in diversity and even some women have gotten into the game. While most don't know a thing about vintage, they do have a healthy appreciation for the history. I find they are much more open and respectful than the older hobby veterans are towards them. I also notice that foreign and alternative sports are gaining much more traction - Formula One, Soccer, WWE, etc.

[obiwan1129]

I've collected since the mid 1980's. My collecting habits have changed greatly over time. Initially I focused on building sets and collecting Cubs cards. As a result I had boxes upon boxes of commons. I was able to offload a bunch of them many years ago. I held onto a number of the sets.

Now I just collect Cubs cards and random things I find fun. I like to build small subsets that I create for myself. I finished up an Orbit gum (PR3) pin set not too long ago and it hangs nicely in a shadowbox on my office wall. That was 60 pin backs and still took me ~7 years to finish. I don't think I would even entertained that 30 years ago.

Right now I am collecting PSA slabbed Randy Hundley Topps base cards. And still looking for some 2016 A&G Cubs mini parallels. I also snag fun (for me) cards and they end up in binders for me to pull out now and again to enjoy. At some point, I think I am going to work on a 33 Goudey Cubs card set. Again, just something fun for me to enjoy.

I'm not interested in chasing the rookies or building sets like I did back in the Junk Wax era. I don't begrudge anyone from doing that now. I've been there and done that. I suspect many of the older collectors here were as well. I am comfortable in what I want to collect and I'll enjoy it accordingly. Seasons change and so do we. It's supposed to be fun, it doesn't have to stay the same.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by conor912

Let’s not forget there was a point in time not too long ago where a lot of old-time collectors were predicting a market crash and the death of the hobby due to a lack of young blood. Now we have that young blood and everyone is complaining about what they are doing. To borrow from the Stones, the hobby might not have gotten what it wanted, but it got what it needed. Even if 80% of the newcomers go by the wayside at the first sight of the next shiny thing, the last few years have brought in a lot new guys who really do love it. We need to give some time for the dust to settle.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

As us old farts are getting older, do you think that the younger collectors are really going to be into set building as we are now? Meaning do you think set building will eventually die out amongst the newer collectors entering our hobby?

Has anyone ever got to a point in their collecting where they thought, why even collect all this cardboard because in the end you can’t take it with you! So why collect? Just curious to everyone’s thoughts on this.

Man, that logic could lead one to a dangerous place in life, where nothing was worth doing.

[Leon]

I still enjoy the hunt of rare pre-war type cards. I never get bored. Plus I then collect whatever I want to. I am very sporadic. This came in the mail a few days ago...