1968 & 1968 Topps Houston - no logos?

[Runscott]

Funny I didn't pay much attention to this when I was a kid, but apparently there was some trademark/copyright issue with Topps using the Astros name or logo on their cards in 1968 and 1968. While the other teams had the team name on their cards (not the city), the Astros cards all said 'Houston'. Does anyone know why?

This came up because I was planning to build a wall display of the 1968 Astros, but not having any logos on them kind of killed the aesthetics of the display.

[Section115]

My guess is that this had something to do with the contractual issues with the MLBPA during this period. I know Topps was forced to use older pictures for this set. Since most of the older pictures were from the Colt .45 days they thought it would be easier to just airbrush and use the generic name.

[ALR-bishop]

The 1968 and 1969 sets are populated with older photos from prior years. Coming expansion in 69 may have impacted photo taking in 1968 ( as many as 100 players would be changing uniforms) but more likely it was Marvin Miller, who had organized the players against management....and also against Topps and their paltry player contacts. The 69 set is packed with newer players in their minor league uniforms. Also airbrushed and capless photos.

A deal was apparently reached between Topps and the MLPA at some point because beginning with the 5th series of the 69 set, what had been outdated, capless, airbrushed photos in much of 68 and the first 4 series of 69, became updated new images in the last two.

So I think expansion uncertainties and Marvin Miller are the reason for some lousy cards in 1968 and 1969. I once read an SCD article by Olbermann who documented a lot of this.

[Runscott]

Thanks!

[toppcat]

The lack of the Astros name in Topps sets of the mid to late 60's was due to a trademark dispute between the Astros and Monsanto, owners of the Astroturf trademark. Once resolved, Topps was able to use the team name again.

I have details here: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...hat-topps.html

[ALR-bishop]

Good point Dave. I remember at the time ( was 18 in 1968), my pre legal days, thinking surely Monsanto does not really think people are going to confuse the Houston Astronots with the Houston Astrturffers . But that was the astrturf heyday. And Monsanto was St Louis based so the matter got a lot of attention there as well as Houston

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by toppcat

The lack of the Astros name in Topps sets of the mid to late 60's was due to a trademark dispute between the Astros and Monsanto, owners of the Astroturf trademark. Once resolved, Topps was able to use the team name again.

I have details here: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...hat-topps.html

What is interesting in the 65 set, is in the first series, the Houston player's cards show just "Houston" with an emblem of Texas on the banner and the players have the ".45s" on the hats. In the later series of this set, the remaining Houston cards have "Houston Astros" on the card's banner, but the player's hats are either plain or they are not wearing hats, with one exception, a late series tri player RC with the Astro logo on 2/3 players.

[Section115]

Originally Posted by toppcat

The lack of the Astros name in Topps sets of the mid to late 60's was due to a trademark dispute between the Astros and Monsanto, owners of the Astroturf trademark. Once resolved, Topps was able to use the team name again.

I have details here: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...hat-topps.html

I have serious doubts about the accuracy of this article (which actually refers to another article on the PSA website I believe). "Chemgrass" was the original name of the playing surface. It was renamed to "Astroturf" AFTER both the domed stadium AND the team were renamed (Harris County Domed Stadium to Astrodome in 1965, Colt .45s to Astros in 1965 as well). The Astroturf was installed in 1966 after Monsanto was approached by the Astros and Judge Roy Hofheinz. The name "Astroturf" wasn't even patented and trademarked until 1967, 2 years after the team changed the name.

Plus, since the Astros and the stadium were the first to use the artificial turf or "monofilament ribbon file product", I am sure a company like Monsanto would have been thrilled to have the Astros use part of the product name and vice versa. However, I seriously do not believe that was the case at all.

[ALR-bishop]

Oh, oh. Kevin is clouding the issue with facts :-)

Good post, Kevin

[toppcat]

I'll have to check with Kevin Glew on his source. KG is usually meticulous from what I have seen. We'll see....

[Troy Kirk]

I was just looking through some old hobby magazines and found some interesting information about this issue. Collectors in 1968 were also interested in why the Astros logos were missing from the cards. While this article doesn't answer the question entirely, it does point pretty hard at the Astros themselves as being the culprit. It wasn't long after this that all the teams banded together and forced Topps to pay them for the right to show their logos.

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks for posting that Troy. Very interesting. What Fleer set do you think the author is talking about ? Fleer did issue baseball sets between 1963 and 1981 but most were old timer sets or sticker, logo and odd ball type sets

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Thanks for posting that Troy. Very interesting. What Fleer set do you think the author is talking about ? Fleer did issue baseball sets between 1963 and 1981 but most were old timer sets or sticker, logo and odd ball type sets

I believe they are referring to those oversized 1968 Fleer Team Facts cards that have the team emblem and facts on the front and are blank backed. They have "Save All 19 Cards" printed at the bottom. I'm guessing that Houston is the missing 20th team?

[ALR-bishop]

You might be right Cliff. I have the Save All 19 set in black minus Houston. The Save All 19 also comes in red ( variations ), and those are really tough. Still need a couple

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

You might be right Cliff. I have the Save All 19 set in black minus Houston. The Save All 19 also comes in red ( variations ), and those are really tough. Still need a couple

If you ever find the 1967 Fleer Team Facts card of the Cubs with the "Save All 19" in red, let me know and show a scan .

[Fleerfan]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Thanks for posting that Troy. Very interesting. What Fleer set do you think the author is talking about ? Fleer did issue baseball sets between 1963 and 1981 but most were old timer sets or sticker, logo and odd ball type sets

Yes, the Fleer sets being referenced are the 1967 and 1968 Fleer Baseball Emblem cloth patches and fact cards. There are no Astros cloth patches or fact cards in either set.

Here is my post on this issue with the missing Astros logos from the Topps and Fleer sets:
http://fleersticker.blogspot.com/200...em-astros.html

Troy - Thanks for the the great research!

[Fleerfan]

The Houston team is also missing from the 1963 Post Cereal mini pennant set. At the time they were the Colt .45s. Don't know if this is the same issue with the team wanting additional revenue for use of the logo back in 1963, or whether this issue had to do with Colt Firearms.

The team had problems with the Colt Firearms Company about revenue from team merchandise sales with the Colt .45's logo. From my understanding, that is one of the reasons the team decided it was time for a new name and new logo when they moved into the dome so they would not have to continue to have issues over the Colt .45 logo.

Perhaps their issues with Colt Firearms being protective of their logo led the rebranded Astros to become very protective of their logo as well.

Here is a look at the 1963 Post Cereal mini pennants:

http://fleersticker.blogspot.com/201...-stickers.html