Most valuable card

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by MattyC

From PSA's website:

Fogel-Murphy Specimen. The card came from the fabulous 1952 Topps collection of Mark Murphy. It was then sold by dealer Bill Hughes to Collectors Universe CEO David Hall for $50,000 in 1993. When Hall's collection was auctioned by Superior in 1996, renowned collector Marshall Fogel purchased the card for $121,000.

This lines up with the history I have heard about the card.
Mark Murphy consigned his 1952 Topps set to Richard Wolffers Auction House, owned by Duane Garrett. There was a $250,000 reserve on the set and it didn't sell. Bill Hughes was then in charge of brokering the set. He broke up the set to various collectors, David Hall being the one that purchased the Mantle. The card was then graded a PSA 10. It was decided that Hall owning PSA and being a collector was a conflict of interest so he auctioned his collection through Superior and that's where Fogel purchased the Mantle. The card was not from the Rosen find.
I enjoy the hobby history that goes along with cards like this and I have had some incredible conversations with Marshall Fogel. I went to his safety deposit box to look at his 52 Mantle. I brought a ruler, I brought a 40x lighted loupe, and I brought a UV flashlight. I was ready to pick the card apart. The only 2 slight imperfections I saw were a very subtle tilt and back centering that was a little off. The card is truly a remarkable specimen and a high end 10. It measures the full size of 2.65" x 3.75", the color is bold and bright, the corners and edges are sharp yet natural. Having never seen a high resolution scan of the card I was totally skeptical about was I was going to see. "David Hall bought a 1952 Mantle and graded it a 10? Uh huh. Ok Marshall, I'm sure it's great." But it is. I would think if they were cutting these from sheets they wouldn't have left a small tilt like the one on Marshall's, or a bigger tilt like the one on Kendrick's.
I also looked at Marshall's 1953 Mantle 10 with the same detail so I know which of the two in existence is superior.

[ullmandds]

Calling a card a "high end 10" seems kinda superfluous? Shouldn't all 10's be...10's?

Originally Posted by ergoism

This lines up with the history I have heard about the card.
Mark Murphy consigned his 1952 Topps set to Richard Wolffers Auction House, owned by Duane Garrett. There was a $250,000 reserve on the set and it didn't sell. Bill Hughes was then in charge of brokering the set. He broke up the set to various collectors, David Hall being the one that purchased the Mantle. The card was then graded a PSA 10. It was decided that Hall owning PSA and being a collector was a conflict of interest so he auctioned his collection through Superior and that's where Fogel purchased the Mantle. The card was not from the Rosen find.
I enjoy the hobby history that goes along with cards like this and I have had some incredible conversations with Marshall Fogel. I went to his safety deposit box to look at his 52 Mantle. I brought a ruler, I brought a 40x lighted loupe, and I brought a UV flashlight. I was ready to pick the card apart. The only 2 slight imperfections I saw were a very subtle tilt and back centering that was a little off. The card is truly a remarkable specimen and a high end 10. It measures the full size of 2.65" x 3.75", the color is bold and bright, the corners and edges are sharp yet natural. Having never seen a high resolution scan of the card I was totally skeptical about was I was going to see. "David Hall bought a 1952 Mantle and graded it a 10? Uh huh. Ok Marshall, I'm sure it's great." But it is. I would think if they were cutting these from sheets they wouldn't have left a small tilt like the one on Marshall's, or a bigger tilt like the one on Kendrick's.
I also looked at Marshall's 1953 Mantle 10 with the same detail so I know which of the two in existence is superior.

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Calling a card a "high end 10" seems kinda superfluous? Shouldn't all 10's be...10's?

In my humble opinion, there can be a high end 10 and a low end 10 in exactly the same way there can be a high end 9 and a low end 9. It's not a drastic scale we are talking about here but if the teacher is grading a test and gives one student a 98 and one student a 95, are we going to call that equal? A PSA 10 can have 60/40 centering on the front. In my eyes, that probably wouldn't be a high end 10 or a card I'd like in my collection. PSA's grading standards state that a 10 is a "virtually" perfect card, not that they are flawless.

[Vintagecatcher]

Noticed an article on Marshall Fogel's PSA 10 Mantle which compared it to the t206 Wager here in Portland, Maine today.

Patrick

[ullmandds]

I agree...I guess In my head a 10 should be perfect...otherwise it shouldn't be a 10...I forget about the "rules."

Originally Posted by ergoism

In my humble opinion, there can be a high end 10 and a low end 10 in exactly the same way there can be a high end 9 and a low end 9. It's not a drastic scale we are talking about here but if the teacher is grading a test and gives one student a 98 and one student a 95, are we going to call that equal? A PSA 10 can have 60/40 centering on the front. In my eyes, that probably wouldn't be a high end 10 or a card I'd like in my collection. PSA's grading standards state that a 10 is a "virtually" perfect card, not that they are flawless.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ergoism

In my humble opinion, there can be a high end 10 and a low end 10 in exactly the same way there can be a high end 9 and a low end 9. It's not a drastic scale we are talking about here but if the teacher is grading a test and gives one student a 98 and one student a 95, are we going to call that equal? A PSA 10 can have 60/40 centering on the front. In my eyes, that probably wouldn't be a high end 10 or a card I'd like in my collection. PSA's grading standards state that a 10 is a "virtually" perfect card, not that they are flawless.

I agree. This has come up a few times before. For those who dont think that one PSA 10 can be a higher end example than another look at a few 86 Jordans. Or the 75 Brett with print defects. Or the 68 bench with terrible back centering.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree. This has come up a few times before. For those who dont that one PSA 10 can be a higher end example than another look at a few 86 Jordans. Or the 75 Brett with print defects. Or the 68 bench with terrible back centering.

Guys, this is all being taken care of for us by this Purple Sticker thingy. Remember?

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree. This has come up a few times before. For those who dont think that one PSA 10 can be a higher end example than another look at a few 86 Jordans..

.. I seem to remember an article in a magazine about 8 ?? years ago about a collector who was in the process of buying up every PSA 10 Jordan RC he could get his hands on , and how he was focused on a particular one owned by someone ( his brother ? ) which was the "best" one he had ever seen , yet he already owned dozens.....so just when you thing we in here are a sometimes-odd bunch , sleep easy guys , there's worse OCD ( and AR ) whackjobs running around out there....

..

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

.. I seem to remember an article in a magazine about 8 ?? years ago about a collector who was in the process of buying up every PSA 10 Jordan RC he could get his hands on , and how he was focused on a particular one owned by someone ( his brother ? ) which was the "best" one he had ever seen , yet he already owned dozens.....so just when you thing we in here are a sometimes-odd bunch , sleep easy guys , there's worse OCD ( and AR ) whackjobs running around out there....

..

If he gets it into a bgs 10 holder no one would be calling him a whackjob. It probably turns a 20k card into a 100k card. There is a fine line between genius and insanity.

[Jdoggs]

Anyone have a scan or picture of all 3 1952 topps mantle psa 10’s?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If he gets it into a bgs 10 holder no one would be calling him a whackjob. It probably turns a 20k card into a 100k card. There is a fine line between genius and insanity.

All TPG 10s aren't created equally? I still think there needs to be an 11. That would fix that issue!!

.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by ergoism

This lines up with the history I have heard about the card. Mark Murphy consigned his 1952 Topps set to Richard Wolffers Auction House, owned by Duane Garrett. There was a $250,000 reserve on the set and it didn't sell. Bill Hughes was then in charge of brokering the set. He broke up the set to various collectors, David Hall being the one that purchased the Mantle. The card was then graded a PSA 10. It was decided that Hall owning PSA and being a collector was a conflict of interest so he auctioned his collection through Superior and that's where Fogel purchased the Mantle. The card was not from the Rosen find.

Evan - I am 99.9% sure that that Marshall's 1952 Mantle came from Rosen's find. I was actually involved in the transaction between Bill Hughes and David Hall at the time - it did not directly trade hands between them.

Also, and not a big deal, I believe that the set was consigned by Mike Murphy - Mark's dad.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Evan - I am 99.9% sure that that Marshall's 1952 Mantle came from Rosen's find. I was actually involved in the transaction between Bill Hughes and David Hall at the time - it did not directly trade hands between them.



Also, and not a big deal, I believe that the set was consigned by Mike Murphy - Mark's dad.

That makes much more sense. I went to school with Mark and he was much more interested in new stuff when we were in high school (graduated in 1990). His father is one of the nicest men I’ve ever known and we used to sit at the dining room table and look at that set. He was so proud of it and I don’t think Mark cared very much for vintage at the time. It was really my first exposure to older cards and it kind of ruined things for me...similar to sitting 15th row center stage for the Stones in ‘89. It doesn’t get much better! The Murphy’s moved down south a few years later and I never got to see those cards again...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Evan - I am 99.9% sure that that Marshall's 1952 Mantle came from Rosen's find. I was actually involved in the transaction between Bill Hughes and David Hall at the time - it did not directly trade hands between them.

Also, and not a big deal, I believe that the set was consigned by Mike Murphy - Mark's dad.

It could have. I couldn't say one way or the other, I'm just repeating what I heard from Marshall. And I think you're right about Mike Murphy as well.