Background color variations for e94s and e98s

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Was curious what board members thought of the color variations that exist for these two sets. I had a few questions to start off...

1. Can all 30 players in e98 be found with all four color backs? (Pete Calderon's site says yes, but can anyone offer any other thoughts?)

2. With e94, there seems to be a significant difference in the color variations. For instance, there's apparently only 17 Golds but 46 Greens, 19 Purple, 38 Olive, 26 Blue and 38 Red? Has anyone found any conflicting information out there or are those numbers still accurate?

3. Do any checklists exist detailing which players are on which colored background? Especially for e94 since there's apparently a wide variation?

4. Are there any scarcity levels between the various colors? ie....Are blues in e98 harder than the greens or are there any differences in scarcity levels between the 6 color variations in the e94 set?

Thanks for any input,

-Brian

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Posted By: JimB

Great questions. I am anxious to hear more from the experts on these sets as I am just starting to collect them. I imagine TBob will have good info to add here. I recently picked up a purple E94 Cobb and he said that he only knows of three examples of the purple Cobb including mine. I know there have been a couple of high-grade gold E94 Cobbs recently in auctions.
JimB

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Posted By: James Feagin

I can't imagine that such a small sample of E94s would be representative of all that exist. Myself, I own three e94s that aren't on that list: a purple McGraw, an olive Turner, and a red Byrne.

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Posted By: JimB

Another question:

Any guesses as to how many of each E94 player regardless of color there are out there?

How about E98s?

JimB

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Posted By: JimB

I have heard an estimate that there may only be approx. 50 of any given player in the E94 set. Does that sound about right?
JimB

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Posted By: Anonymous

i think there are more than 50 examples of each...but that's just my opinion.

I have:

e94 red davis
violet devore
green murray

pete in st paul

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Posted By: BcD

after three years of him insisting they were E-98's! he bought one from me and now is a believer! Guess what Bob??? I have a PINK one! That's right a pink variation and I know of a few more pinkies as well.I have a virus that prevents me until I fix it from posting pics of anything or i would scan just to imagine the look in your face when you see it~

answer to number one is YES~

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Posted By: BcD

I have my list of which colors of what players I have had and I am sure Tim Sedlock does as well.......


http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_cards.chtml?rsetid=11471&alltime=yes&rank=1&tied=0&requesttimeout=9999

I have several now in SGC holders~

I do not agree that certain colors are rarer than others but rather certain player's in certain colors are far more difficult than others~

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

About the e94 Golds that you mentioned Brian....which players are included if there are only 17 known? I know of Dougherty, Lajoie, Lord, Grant, Kleinow, Lobert and Turner off the top of my head.....

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Posted By: BcD

who said there were 17 known? I forget if I told Bob that last year!

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

17 Golds according to Pete Calderon's site. All I have to go on unless someone has uncovered others....

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Posted By: robert a

Hi Brian,
I've been looking at some of the same questions for the past few years and have a couple of answers for you concerning e98s.

I have seen every e98 player with each of the four color backgrounds.
So, there are 120 different e98s. There are no other variations that involve the fronts of the cards.

You can view 70 or so of the different color variations at my website:

http://www.imageevent.com/caramelcard

I DO NOT believe any color to be more difficult, but i've seen the fewest of the green fronts. Other collectors have thought red to be a little tougher, but I really think it's about equal straight across the board.

There are distinct players though that are much tougher than others.

Rob

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Posted By: Richard

Robert -

Do you have any information on the relative scarcity levels of E94's, or just the E98's?

and BCD - for your registry set, can you do a breakdown of how many of each color you have for the E94's since it is not on the PSA website?

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Thanks for sharing your site Robert. I knew you knew quite a bit about the set but forgot that you had so many of those. Nice to see your site up and running again too. Don't forget a page for your e103s!!

I was thinking about going after an all-green set but it looks like Scott Mosley beat me to it (terrific group by the way, Scott!). Maybe I'll choose another color that hasn't been done already....

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Posted By: robert a

Richard,
I have far more experience with e98, so I'll let the others respond in detail about e94, but the main difference with the two sets' color variations is that some e94 colors seem to be tougher than others. Again, I don't find this to be the case with e98, or at least not to the extent of the e94 colors.

With e94, red and green are by far the easiest to find from my experience. Gold, blue, and olive have been the three colors that I've seen the least of. I've always thought that purple is not quite as tough as collectors say, but it is well sought after.

I don't see why every front couldn't be found with every color. However, it could take 30 years or so. The tough part is staying patient and keeping yourself interested in the set....oh and the fact that wagner x 6 might cost a lot.



Rob

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Posted By: tbob

I've collected all the E98s and nearly a master set (which is a snap compared to the E94)at one time but will address only the E94s which I am blindly buying trying to complete the master set (all 30 players in 6 colors=180 cards).
Brian mentioned gold variations and how I questioned their existence until I finally saw one of his and bought it. He's right, but actually he means an orange variation, not gold, as gold is one of the 6 colors in the set. I am sure that was just a slip of the keyboard. The orange variation is strange but my orange Devore rests in a PSA 6 holder now and it is definitely not red and definitely not gold. It could be considered a color freak except there are at least 4 others I have seen in the exact same color. All 5 came from Mr. Daniels originally, but I consider the master set complete at 180, with no orangies and no pinkies (as Brian mentioned), although I really would like to see a pink one, to see if it is just a faded red.
All of that out of the way, the numbers which are being mentioned above are not the finite number of cards known in each color, but rather Pete Calderon's survey of collectors he knew who had E94 cards. The numbers are certainly greater. They do, however, give an indication that gold and purple backgrounds are scarcer, in general, than the other four colors. On ebay recently there have been a run of 6 or 7 gold E94s but gold ones are still among the toughest.
Starting with the premise that ALL E94s are scarce as hen's teeth, I believe that there is something to the statement that certain players with certain colors are almost impossible, the scarcity of the gold and purples aside. I am 2/3 of the way home toward the master set and there are cards that I have never even seen, much less tried to buy and was outbid. For instance I had never seen a gold Wagner until the tattered one recently appeared on ebay and had never seen a gold Cobb until I saw Nagy's. I still have never seen a gold Young although as sure I say that, someone will post a scan of theirs
Maybe this had something to do with the players pictured, I don't know. I do know that the toughest card to find, for me, is the Speaker. Why, I have no clue.
Finally, I think the most underrated color is olive, the ugliest color IMHO. They are tough to find and when you do find them, they tend to be in off condition, much more so than the other colors. I have no clue why. I know the survey indicated more of them around than other colors but in the last couple of years on ebay it seems like they come up infrequently, just like the purples.

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Posted By: tbob

I still hold to the opinion that reds are the toughest. The red Coombs, Bridwell, Tinker, Kling, and Dahlen were extremely tough and I never did see a red Vaughn although I am sure one exists.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

I will send you a scan of a gold Cobb-not the Nagy,in a PSA 7 holder.
There are more than 17 "gold" E-94's guys.I have had as many as 26 at once before. And Bob,notice your comment about the red variation is specific to particular players which coincides with my thought that it's not the color overall but the color/player combo that is particularly uncommon to some E-94's.

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Posted By: quan

yes the cobb bcd had was gold and i've seen a couple more gold wagners in the last few years. i'm assuming there is a player in every color background. the purple do stand out the best for me, personal preference but i would not pay a huge premium for them.

i find the e98s and e94s have some of the crappiest paper stock and poorly cut in the circa-1910s caramel sets, these cards will sometime "implode" on you.

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Posted By: Richard

In the limited amount of time that I have been collecting prewar, all 3 high grade e94 cobbs that I have seen have been gold. That is a bit odd. And I have probably seen more golds and reds than any other color. I think it is time for Pete to take a new survey on the colors!

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Posted By: BcD

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-E94-Close-Candy-TY-COBB-HOF-SGC-40-VG_W0QQitemZ8743596853QQcategoryZ57993QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and of course this one Richard~

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=106178&item=8701063354

remember?

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Posted By: Richard

Brian - since when did you consider 5's and 3's high grade? You, more than anyone, preach about high grade caramels being 6's 7's and 8's.

Don't you line your shelving with 3's and 5's?

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Posted By: BcD

I was only qualifying your grade idea of hg. Isn't the purple one in the GAI holder high grade to you? To correct my implication Richard,you know a lot about Vintage cards for someone who has only been collecting them for a short time.Really you do.I commend you.

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Posted By: robert a

Quan,
I agree.
The quality of the e94s and e98s were probably fairly good for back then, but the gloss applied to the fronts causes the cards to flake. They're not meant to be creased, and when they crease, you start to see the typical flaking around the creasing.

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Posted By: Mike Ernst

My absolutely random sampling of e98 colors--from a lot of 57 of them that I acquired in 1974 and till have:
15 blue
5 green
8 orange
29 red