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  #31  
Old 12-27-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post

I have a neighbor Burch who is 70 and a good friend and he knows boxing and insists Casuius Clay is the best ever. I say Tyson would have knocked him out. We will never know.
Hahahaha!!! When Tyson got put into the ring with solid competition, he couldn't knock any of them out, so how on earth do you think he would have been able to knock out Ali?

Now people always bring up Buster Douglas, but I am not going to go that route because there were a lot of guys Tyson struggled against. Go watch his fight against Mitch Green.
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  #32  
Old 12-27-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Hahahaha!!! When Tyson got put into the ring with solid competition, he couldn't knock any of them out, so how on earth do you think he would have been able to knock out Ali?

Now people always bring up Buster Douglas, but I am not going to go that route because there were a lot of guys Tyson struggled against. Go watch his fight against Mitch Green.


If you have ever watched MMA you would know better than to laugh. It only takes one Tyson punch to go down if it lands.

He may have lost but none of us will ever know. There were a ton of fighters that said they had Tyson's number only to wind up laying on the canvas.
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2017, 01:05 PM
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It only takes one punch from anyone for anyone to go down. I thought we were talking about skill.

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  #34  
Old 12-27-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
It only takes one punch from anyone for anyone to go down. I thought we were talking about skill.

Arthur


I don't think Tyson was the most well rounded fighter. You might be able to find a few that argue that but I doubt many. I think why myself and legions of others think he belongs in the discussion is he was a total bad ass and could knock out fighters that had more technical skill than him.

A fight is a fight. Randy Couture was more skilled than Brock Lesnar but it didn't change the outcome and Brock laid him out.

In the lower weight classes most of the guys are extremely technically proficient but lack power. I think of the heavyweight division and power trumps proficiency in my book with the danger level of entering the ring with so much larger fighters being so much higher.

You can watch most 155 pound MMA guys go five rounds. Only a select few have knockout power and that is why their popularity is so high. Lighting fast and deadly.

Look at a guy like Floyd Mayweather. Great fighter obviously but he isn't sending anyone to the hospital.

Last edited by Dpeck100; 12-27-2017 at 01:11 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:08 PM
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First of all, MMA and boxing are not analogs, so any comparison with MMA is just pointless. Put the best MMA fighter in a boxing ring under the unified commission rules and he will be out of his depth, as MacGregor was. It isn't the same sport. Michael Jordan was one of the greatest basketball players of alltime but was a sucky baseball player. Irrelevant.

Next, let's talk training, nutrition, etc. You cannot assume that a 1930s fighter would be living and training the same in 1990. The man is the same, the training techniques are not. How about we flip it and put Tyson in the gym in 1930 with crappy food, no A/C, rudimentary medicine, etc.

Knockouts are entertaining but are not the whole story. Not even close. 2018 HOFer Vitali Klitschko knocked out 87.3% of his opponents. Tyson knocked out 76% of his. Does that make Vitali better than Tyson?

Then there is how a fighter 'looks'. David, you've resorted to this eyeball test over and over again. How a guy looks is probably the least useful gauge of performance. Old time fighters didn't lift weights; the trainers believed it would make them too tight to box effectively. What they did was fight. A lot. Most of the guys on the top lists who fought in the earlier days had triple digits in total fights:

Henry Armstrong 181
Willie Pep 241
Sugar Ray Robinson 200
Harry Greb 298
Sam Langford 256
Benny Leonard 95 (in 11 years)
Bob Fitzsimmons 99 that we know of, lots of bouts not recorded in Australia on his way up

and so on. My point being, these guys were hard as a coffin nail and nastier than a rattlesnake. They had to be to survive, and the proof is in the way they responded to the roughest, toughest fighters. Louis lost once as a 22 year old; he came back in the rematch and broke Schmeling's back. Holyfield TKO'd Tyson and Tyson reacted in the rematch with a blatant series of fouls that got him disqualified rather than lose again.

Tyson was a killer as long as he was in with a lesser talent or a has-been, but his record against HOFers speaks for itself: 1-3. He is a legitimate HOFer and a legitimate top 20 heavyweight but he is not a top 10 P4P.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 12-27-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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  #36  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:24 PM
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I have never commented on the greatest heavyweight of all time in this thread prior to yesterday and I don't recall ever commenting prior in any other thread.

Yes I do think Tyson's appearance is far supperior and I realize that cut muscles isn't the deciding factor in a fight.

I do think it says a lot about his conditioning.

There are plenty of great boxers in MMA and if that was their focus could be very competitive in boxing.

It's funny I am having some work done at my condo and I have on a Tyson tshirt and had him on my big screen and one of the guys asked if I boxed. Said no but love Tyson and think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. His comment was I think he was the best.
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:47 PM
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Like Adam, I'd rank Tyson a Top 20 Heavyweight (maybe somewhere in the middle of the pack if I really had to think about it).

That said, I understand why Tyson is considered so collectible. He has that "it" or "wow" factor, a lot of fighters we might consider superior, don't have.

He also is a bit of an icon in his own right, and even with the many horrible things he might have done in his personal life (and in the ring), he still comes across as likable and accessible to many.

He's an incredibly self-aware guy to, which is uncommon in many high profile celebrities, athletes and politicians.
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  #38  
Old 12-27-2017, 03:51 PM
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It is definitely nice to see his stuff more sought after this point.

In 2010 what gave me the idea to look for his cards was watching his ESPN DVD The Best of Mike Tyson.

I just was blown away at what a wrecking machine he was. Boxers for good reason were legit scared to fight the guy.

I think social media is why he stuff has become more collected. Youtube has done wonders for his appeal.

He may not rank high with boxing enthusiasts but for many fans he was the pinnacle of boxing during their lifetime and that probably influences their opinion a great deal. I fall into this category.
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  #39  
Old 12-27-2017, 04:04 PM
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Tyson was a completely different fighter after the death of Cus D'Amato. I think that's one of the reasons it's so difficult to rank him all-time. Early in his career he was a knockout machine, to the point that many heavyweights fought him but wouldn't engage him for a second, even in title fights. (Similar to Foreman before the Ali fight) Watch the Mitch Green fight or "Bonecrusher" Smith. Those guys were legitimate heavyweights in the late 80s and early 90s and wanted no part of a young Tyson.

I prefer to remember that fighter and would absolutely put him in my top 5 all-time heavyweight fighters. After Cus' death, he lost a lot of discipline and started getting into all kinds of trouble outside the ring. That's the Tyson most detractors remember and pretty much ruined his legacy, IMO.
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  #40  
Old 12-27-2017, 05:55 PM
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Well I guess peak performance is one way to look at them too. Of course, that would include the Jack Dempsey who pulverized Jess Willard's face, the Joe Louis who fractured Max Schmeling's vertebrae, etc. Like I said, some very, very tough guys.
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