Help with old (prewar) boxing photos/autograph

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob Fouch

I made an estate sale find this weekend and was wondering if anyone knows much about old boxing photos/autographs and could help me on value and whether the autograph is authentic.

Probably the best of the find is a photo of Tommy Loughran, who was a very good fighter and the light heavyweight champ in the 1920s. (I don't know much about boxing, but discovered a lot about him doing a bit of research.) He beat Jim Braddock. The photo appears to be autographed. It reads, "Yours sincerely, Tommy Loughran." I included a closeup of the signature.

As for the rest of the lot, the photos measure about 4 inches by 8 inches. The names are Harold Henderson, Rene De Vos, Tony Kocsis, Mickey Terry, Joey Kaufman (this photo's a bit bigger) and a newspaper clipping of Tony D'Alessandro, whose estate I found these at. The photos appear to be publicity shots. As far as I can tell, none of them are boxers of note. One is in the New Jersey boxing Hall of Fame.

So any idea on what the value on this might be? And would ebay be the best route to sell? I don't collect boxing. I go to tag sales to help fund my card habit. Here are the photos.
Thanks.
Rob



[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I have nothing to compare the autograph to, but notice how the signature says "Loughson" as opposed to "Loughran". His name was spelled Loughran. Also, the obvious stumbling over the last three (misspelled) letters make me think there's a problem here. Either way, I can't see his autograph being worth very much, as he seems to have been forgotten over time. He did, however, possess much skill in the ring, although his career was marred by his glass jaw. He died in 1982.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rhys

It looks like his pen died after the "r" and he then redid the "r" and kept going with the signature perhaps? I only mention this because it looks like there are two tails to the letter. I have seen this happen with players using old pens to sign that would run out.

I was selling some stuff for Dick Bartell's family last year and they have a signed photo of Babe Ruth with a dedication to Bartell. It is obviously real and there are family photos of Bartell next to the signed photo as far back as the 1940's. However, to an untrained eye it looks like a trace job. Babe signed it, and the pen started to go bad so he re-signed it and tried to stay on the same lines and it just came out looking wierd even though it is completely authentic.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob Fouch

I'm certainly no autograph expert, but just by the circumstances in which it was found, I'd be somewhat surprised if it were forged. This was the estate of an old boxer (I spoke briefly with the grandchildren), not a collector. And if Loughran's a fairly obscure boxer in the scheme of things, I'd be surprised if it were a fake. I was kind of thinking the same thing, Rhys. It looks like his pen died. But like I said, I'm no expert.

I found a couple of recent sales of his auto. One sold in an auction for $250. Another is listed for $400, though it hasn't sold.
So I guess there is some demand for a hard-core boxing collector.

I guess I could send it to PSA, but not sure it'd be worth the cost.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I'd be quite surprised if PSA had any examples in their files. You may want to ask Jim Stinson or Gary Schulz. Do an online search for Stinson's webiste to contact him.

I wasn't trying to say that the signature is a forgery, as the ink certainly does appear to be from the right period. Personally, though, I have no experience with this boxer's autograph; I was just making an educated observation on what I saw. As I said, ask Stinson or Schulz, or perhaps Craig Hamilton. I'd try the first two guys first (I don't have contact info for Craig).

[Archive]

Posted By: George Dreher

Tommy Loughran's signature had a simplistic printed quality to it and had a few breaks between the letters. That isn't even close. An authentic signed photo would go for a couple hundred dollars.

[Archive]

Posted By: D. Bergin

The Loughran looks good to me. A little sloppy at the end as already noted but the rest matches up very nicely.

Loughran is a Boxing Hall of Famer and a very good fighter. I've never heard of him having a "glass jaw". He was only knocked out or TKO'd 3 times in 175+ fights. One was due to broken ribs when he was 17 and he often fought guys much bigger then himself.

His autograph isn't particularly rare and he doesn't have much of a following unfortunately.


There are a few examples at Craig Hamiltons website here:

http://www.josportsinc.com/catalog/view.php?a=search&s_name=loughran



The other photos might auction on ebay in the $10-20 range if lucky.

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

It is authentic and a nice image. From the IBHOF web site:

Tommy Loughran was the 12th light heavyweight champion in history and the most skilled boxer in the sport. During his magnificent career, Loughran fought 12 world champions, ranging from the welterweight to the heavyweight division.

In 1922, Loughran fought no-decision bouts against light heavyweight king Mike McTigue, middleweight champ Harry Greb and future heavyweight champion Gene Tunney. He also battled such legends as Young Stribling, Jack Delaney and Georges Carpentier.

Loughran finally earned a title shot in 1927 and didn't let opportunity pass him by. He decisioned McTigue in what was their fourth and final meeting. Loughran then made successful title defenses against Jimmy Slattery, Leo Lomsky, Pete Latzo (twice), reigning middleweight champ Mickey Walker, and future heavyweight champ Jimmy Braddock.

Eager for bigger challenges, Loughran moved up in weight and eventually beat heavyweights like Jack Sharkey, Max Baer and Paolino Uzcudun. In 1933, he earned a title fight against heavyweight champion Primo Carnera. Carnera, who was 6-5 and 270 pounds, outboxed Loughran, who stood at 5-11 and weighed in at 184 pounds, to retain the championship with a unanimous decision.

Legend has it that Loughran purposely tried to finish each round while fighting in his own corner. That allowed him to sit down at the bell while his opponents walked across the ring at the close of each round.

Loughran's career is marked by a six-bout series with Greb and a four-fight series with McTigue.


Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Just looking at the image, the photo looks like an original studio photo and famous boxers often had photography studios make them a bunch of photos for autograph requests and fan photos.

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

A great many cards of the 1920s (esp. Exhibits) have Fowler photos. Interestingly (to me at least) one of my boxing ancestors had his main publicity photo by Fowler.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: J Paul

Signature looks like a 3x5 I have in my possession. I'll post a scan as soon as my new scanner arrives from Amazon.

[Archive]

Posted By: George Dreher

I stand corrected after looking at Craig Hamilton's website. This was the only example I had to go on, from a boxing autograph guide. Look at the capitol "T" and "L" on this one:

<br/>