Jeter SP Foil auction

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-SP-Foi...YAAOSw9V5a7la8

Sorry to me this is stupid as hell. Flip buying at its absolute finest.

[steve B]

If he hadn't played in NY, that would maybe be a couple hundred.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by steve B

If he hadn't played in NY, that would maybe be a couple hundred.

Wow, 874 watchers. LOL.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

If he hadn't played in NY, that would maybe be a couple hundred.

PWCC also has an SP Johnny Damon PSA 10. Damon's numbers of course were inferior to Jeters, but not by as much as you might think. HIS card is currently $70 or so.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-SP-Foi...IAAOSwcmZa7lZx

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-SP-Foi...YAAOSw9V5a7la8

Sorry to me this is stupid as hell. Flip buying at its absolute finest.

That set was extremely condition sensitive. The total population for 10s at only 22, assuming that's the correct number, is very low by modern standards. It's not hard to see a difference between most 9s and 10s in hand. You will usually see chipping on the boarder and/or corners.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That set was extremely condition sensitive. The total population for 10s at only 22, assuming that's the correct number, is very low by modern standards. It's not hard to see a difference between most 9s and 10s in hand. You will usually see chipping on the boarder and/or corners.

OK. And?

We are talking $66K (so far). For a Derek Jeter?

[Peter_Spaeth]

For $300 or whatever I paid, I am content with this one. Feel free to point out the terrible flaws.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK. And?

We are talking $66K (so far). For a Derek Jeter?

I'm confused, too. Especially since there are (currently) 22 PSA 10s out there. My best guess is that after this, one or two more hit the market, but won't do nearly as well as this one. My other guess is that some PSA 9s (currently 567 of those) will be resubmitted to see if they can get a bump, while ungraded copies and graded ones from other TPGs will also be submitted. That 22 could grow significantly for such a card that supposedly is "rare" due to being condition sensitive. Not sure the $60k+ will look that great in a few months.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That set was extremely condition sensitive. The total population for 10s at only 22, assuming that's the correct number, is very low by modern standards. It's not hard to see a difference between most 9s and 10s in hand. You will usually see chipping on the boarder and/or corners.

When you talk about "most" 9s, how many of the 500+ have you personally examined? And how many 10s?

[Rookiemonster]

You can’t judge this card online in a scan, a pic, or any other way. The only way you can truly see the flaws on this card is in hand. Scratches on the surface and pitting is very hard to see because it’s shiny. Evan the corners on this card a difficult to dectect. The back can be very off center. I MEAN IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A PURPLE STICKER SOOOO...... PWCC and the Greg ( purple label) commented In this article. So I guess they know that purple label and PWCC both have EYE APPEAL stickers.

[Dpeck100]

Peter you seem to be the constant naysayer on the graded card market.

I first joined online forums in 2010 and became aware of what highly sought after graded cards were selling for at the time and the Jeter was going for just over 6k and there were at least half as many.

I would be willing to bet money you would have written at the time that someone paying that amount was just a flip buyer and that 6k is insane money for a modern day card.

Here we stand with the card north of ten times higher, the pop more than double and nothing has changed.

I can't say with any certainly what the future holds for this card but the odds of it going back to 6k are none.

The flaws on your card are obviously the upper two corners and while that is a nice copy it is clear that the card being auctioned off is nicer. I think what is tough for all collectors to wrap their head around at times is these small differences transcend into huge price gaps. It isn't going to change. The collapse of the PSA 10 isn't going to happen. Will cards come down in price in some cases? Yes but the spread between the 9's and 10's isn't going to narrow.

If anything on cards like this it is expanding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David I perfectly understand the realities of the flip market, I just think it's madness. Take the 10 out of its holder, what do you think it would sell for? Put it in a Gem Mint Beckett holder, same question. A microtouch to a corner (and that's all mine is in hand, and the surface is perfect, best I have ever seen by the way) makes a difference between X and 200X? Is the opinion of some card grader who is probably no more qualified than you or I that it's Gem Mint not Mint really worth that in any meaningful way? It's all very artificial to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Also -- I would be willing to bet if you cracked out all the 9s and 10s, and resubmitted, and somehow could trace each card, you would get a very different group of 10s, and probably some 8.5s or even 8s. At the 9/10 level there is a lot of arbitrariness which is what makes it so artificial in my opinion.
I have seen this first hand, a guy I knew who was a huge volume submitter used to regularly resubmit stacks of 9s of major cards and always would be rewarded with some 10s.

[Dpeck100]

It doesn't matter what it would sell for raw. It doesn't matter what it would sell for in a BGS slab. It comfortably sits in a PSA 10 holder and has been awarded the grade of Gem Mint.

I will never dispute that there are cards that you look at in a holder and think boy I don't see how that was given the grade it got. Some are damaged in the holder while others are simply poorly graded. The most glaring example I have ever seen was a 1974 Topps Dave Winfield rookie that looked like a solid 7 but had a 10 on the holder and it still at the time went for $7,400. Whether you or I or anyone else for that matter agrees is irrelevant. What matters is that card still will change hands for more than a card with a 9 up top.

When I got back into cards in 2009 and switched from baseball to wrestling I saw the writing on the wall. It was clear the only way to radically change the value of a card relative to another example was to get it graded. If anything during this time frame the spread has widened even further and that isn't going to change. Someone can either fight the trend or get on it and enjoy the ride.

There is no doubt that much of the value is in the bragging rights and all one has to do is understand this and the rest makes sense. My card is better than your card and only a small number of people can say they have one that is a 10. Throw in rising prices and you have a perfect storm.


No kicking, fighting or screaming is going to change any of this and as the number of participants expands so do the discrepancies. All one must do is look to the gaming category and the explosion there and see how quickly they have adopted getting cards graded. Simple stuff dude.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When you talk about "most" 9s, how many of the 500+ have you personally examined? And how many 10s?

I've seen quite a few 9s and most have a visible flaw. I've even owned a couple. I have only seen a couple of 10s but could see the difference. As opposed to say an 89 ud Griffey where if you covered up the flip I would not be able to tell the difference between most 9s and 10s.

[uniship]

Can Brent or Courtney (or anyone familiar with buyer or seller) confirm if this was a true real sale or not?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by uniship

Can Brent or Courtney (or anyone familiar with buyer or seller) confirm if this was a true real sale or not?

Would you expect Brent to acknowledge it if it wasn't?

I doubt Cortney has anything to do with it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I've seen quite a few 9s and most have a visible flaw. I've even owned a couple. I have only seen a couple of 10s but could see the difference. As opposed to say an 89 ud Griffey where if you covered up the flip I would not be able to tell the difference between most 9s and 10s.

Interesting. I guess the concept of a mint card with a visible flaw still eludes me. If you can see corner wear, or maybe surface scratches which are common for this issue, shouldn't it be less than Mint?

[pokerplyr80]

Yea minor, but visible. I get the argument that the small flaw shouldnt take it from a card worth 500, or even 5k, up to 100k. But that card in a 10 has been an iconic and expensive card for a while now, although I believe most sales over the past few years have been in the 30-50k range.

[Rookiemonster]

There is currently a psa 10 1993 so jeter has n EBay right now with a bin 125k