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  #1  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:49 PM
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Default Top 10 Non-Pele Soccer Cards

OK. I got an email from a collector/investor asking about my thoughts on the top 10 best soccer cards outside of the obvious Pele choices. Against my better judgement, I actually decided to answer. After doing so, I figured that I should not give "a knowledge advantage" to a single person (even if this is just my opinion) and - perhaps equally or more importantly - should not assume to have the "right" answers. While I am sure that this will change, here are my "top 10 not Pele" soccer cards in no specific order (without respect to the grade of the card).
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File Type: jpg Maradona 1977 Futbol_0010.jpg (73.5 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg Key Soccer Cards Scans_0005.jpg (78.5 KB, 164 views)
File Type: jpg Low Res Scans_0005.jpg (74.2 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Low Res Scans_0001.jpg (77.0 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Beckenbauer Graute Gold 1965_0001.jpg (75.2 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg Key Soccer Cards Scans_0015.jpg (75.4 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Puskas SGC 5 Rookie.jpg (74.1 KB, 159 views)
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:51 PM
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Default More attachments

Continued with more cards... would love to hear your feedback
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File Type: jpg IMG_0010.jpg (76.4 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0025.jpg (78.0 KB, 161 views)
File Type: jpg Jose Manuel Moreno_0001.jpg (77.0 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg Key Soccer Cards Scans_0008.jpg (77.8 KB, 158 views)
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:52 PM
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Default ooops...

that was 11. Should I do top 20? Let me know your thoughts!
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:56 PM
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Default Top 20

Absolutely continue to 20. I will add my thoughts and cards as well tonight. Great post!
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:19 PM
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Default ok... on to a few more

what do you think of these?
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File Type: jpg Eusebio Idolos Dos Estadios_0001.jpg (75.6 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0008.jpg (76.6 KB, 155 views)
File Type: jpg Meredith 1914 Taddy & Co SGC 4_0001.jpg (74.2 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Mosa Marjanovic 1937 Yugo Issue SGC A.jpg (75.7 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg Low Res Scans_0007.jpg (75.9 KB, 155 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0007.jpg (73.7 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0001.jpg (75.5 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0005.jpg (75.3 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Bernabe Ferreyra SGC A_0001.jpg (79.8 KB, 161 views)
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:28 PM
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Default Demarcation?

OK... so that was my top 20. I am sure that I could be a bit more sophisticated, if I gave it more thought and study, but these are all decent options that I think I can defend. I just noticed the strong bias towards 1950 and before, with only 3 cards making the cut from after 1950. Perhaps that is a good year of demarcation and another "Top 20" (post 1950) could exist? That would open a few slots in the (mostly) pre 1950 cards above. Which Meazza card should we put it?

Thoughts?
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File Type: jpg IMG_0017.jpg (74.2 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg Low Res Scans_0009.jpg (78.3 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg Meazza Stagni Petazzoni _0001.jpg (79.1 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0014.jpg (72.4 KB, 152 views)
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2019, 04:44 PM
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Default Amazing!!!

WOW! Those are some really cool cards. I just love the amazing variety of vintage soccer cards

Most of my collection is Pele and I have only dabbled in non-Pele cards. So I don't actually own any of these cards. I did bid on the really poor condition 1920s Crack Nasazzi that recently was on eBay and got slaughtered compared to how much others were willing to spend on the beat up card.

I'd love to see a back for the Andrade card. I have never seen that one. Can you post a back for it? Also, backs for any other cards with cool, non-blank backs?
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2019, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
OK... so that was my top 20. I am sure that I could be a bit more sophisticated, if I gave it more thought and study, but these are all decent options that I think I can defend. I just noticed the strong bias towards 1950 and before, with only 3 cards making the cut from after 1950. Perhaps that is a good year of demarcation and another "Top 20" (post 1950) could exist? That would open a few slots in the (mostly) pre 1950 cards above. Which Meazza card should we put it?

Thoughts?
I think all 3 of them are worthy specimens. Is one of them considered more of a rookie or harder to find than the others?
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2019, 05:55 PM
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Default Meazza

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Originally Posted by Collect Equity View Post
I think all 3 of them are worthy specimens. Is one of them considered more of a rookie or harder to find than the others?
Agreed and fantastic cards--all 3 of the Meazza's are worthy (and i would be really interested to see how SGC was able to date the Editore Scono). The 1927 Lurati would be my call because the Zaini is an "in action" shot (1 other player) and while the Stagni Petazzoni is one heavyweight of a card, the date "1927-29" is likely not correct as the Ambrosiana part of the Inter name didnt come about until 1928.

This is truly a world class lineup Al--I just dont know that i would have many that i would add pre-1950 (there are a couple I may remove). There will be a few but like you suggested most will be post 1950.

While a far cry from most of the gems above I would think this card would need to be included in any discussion. More to come..
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:33 PM
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Default top 10 soccer cards (no Pele)

That's a mighty fine selection, Al.

I might put together a list too. I like the South American and Italian issues.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:28 PM
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Default Honorable Mentions

Without a lot of time invested into statistics/rarity etc these are a few I could come up with. I would say an early Bloomer should at least be considered as well.

From top and left to right:

1958 Balas Garrincha
1938 Brazilian Team Postcard w/ Leonidas
1939 Kicker Fritz Walter
1974 Ageducatifs Michel Platini
1915 Chocolate Amatller Pichichi
1933 Cioccolato Dolomiti Silvio Piola (Serie A top scorer)
1992 Panini Zidane
1983 Panini Marco Van Basten
1999 Gremio Ronaldinho
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:04 PM
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Only because I have it, probably too common for you sophisticates.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2019, 02:29 PM
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I like your choices, there are some amazing cards there. I love that Sindelar, I have a Bulgaria and Konig but no Greiling yet. Likewise I have a few other Meazza and Mazzola but I've been foiled on past attempts to pick up their key cards, I also stupidly missed out on a Circus Girl GO Smith auction this week due to an overrunning appointment.

I guess the question is whether is whether you interpret a top 10 as "grail cards" weighted towards rarity and significance of the issue or towards including top players and recognisable, iconic cards for people new to the hobby.

Going for the second interpretation I'd go for this as a top 10

1946 Monte Cudine Di Stefano
1947 Naninina Puskas
1956 Vecchi Garrincha
1963 Panini Eusebio
1964 Barratt A12 Best
1968 Palirex Cruyff
1974 Ageducatifs Platini
1977 Futbol Maradona
2002 Mega craques Ronaldo
2004 Megacracks Messi

Yes it's boring, many are not especially rare, some aren't true rookies, some might argue discs aren't cards and I remember reading somewhere there are doubts about the authenticity of the Monte Cudines (if someone knows more about this I'd love to hear). It's a shame but a lot of fans are not interested in pre war players, perhaps Dixie Dean and Meazza come closest. Even here in England the vast majority of fans have never heard of the likes of GO Smith, Meredith, Bloomer, Needham, etc you'd probably just know the ones from the club you support.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2019, 02:57 PM
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The list should include players that are well known around the world. Players like Dixie Dean, G.O. Smith and Billy Meredith are known only in the UK. Here is my list:

- 1946 Monte Cudine Alfredo Di Stefano
- 1947 Nannina Ferenc Puskas
- 1963 Panini Eusebio
- 1964 Barratt George Best
- 1968 Sicker-Verlag Suurbier/Cruyff
- 1974 Ageducatifs Michel Platini
- 1977 Futbol Arg Jrs. Discs Diego Maradona
- 1992 Panini Zinedine Zidane
- 2003 Panini Mega Craques Ronaldo
- 2004 Panini Mega Cracks Lionel Messi

***PLEASE WATCH OUT FOR FAKES!***

Last edited by samosa4u; 05-18-2019 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2019, 03:28 PM
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Wouldn't Beckenbauer be on any short list, I thought he was a consensus at least top 5 player?
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2019, 04:16 PM
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Unfortunately defenders never get the credit they deserve. Beckenbauer, Moore, Baresi, Maldini, Facchetti all brilliant but always looked over. It's crazy how their cards are valued compared to attacking players. Someone like Elias Figueroa won South American footballer of the year three times in a row, just after Pele and just before Zico, yet is almost completely unknown.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelimey View Post
Unfortunately defenders never get the credit they deserve.
Yep, it's like that in all the sports.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:33 AM
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Default Agree....

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Yep, it's like that in all the sports.
It is a shame, but true everywhere. Occasionally you get a "stand out" like Reggie White in football or Ozzie Smith in baseball or Dennis Rodman in basketball, but they are still never giving the place of the offensive players. I would put Beckenbauer in that group though.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:41 AM
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Default OK....

Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
The list should include players that are well known around the world. Players like Dixie Dean, G.O. Smith and Billy Meredith are known only in the UK. Here is my list:

- 1946 Monte Cudine Alfredo Di Stefano
- 1947 Nannina Ferenc Puskas
- 1963 Panini Eusebio
- 1964 Barratt George Best
- 1968 Sicker-Verlag Suurbier/Cruyff
- 1974 Ageducatifs Michel Platini
- 1977 Futbol Arg Jrs. Discs Diego Maradona
- 1992 Panini Zinedine Zidane
- 2003 Panini Mega Craques Ronaldo
- 2004 Panini Mega Cracks Lionel Messi

***PLEASE WATCH OUT FOR FAKES!***
I have noticed a trend in most of the lists posted that feel that many more "modern" cards should be added, so I will try to add to that with my "Top 20" modern cards. For those who like "vintage" we can focus that conversation here. For those that like modern, we can have that discussion on another thread. I agree with some of the comments about player knowledge, but that has not always been the only determinant of card attractiveness. I know many "baseball fans" who do not know who Wagner or Josh Gibson where... so carving out Meazza or Meredith or GO Smith just for name recognition is not enough for me to exclude them from my lists. All of the cards that I have shown are pretty special (the story around the 1914 London Mixture Taddy Meredith, or the scarcity of the Circus Girl cards). Anyway..... to each their own....
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:42 AM
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Default Where did you see the GO Smith Circus Girl?!?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelimey View Post
I like your choices, there are some amazing cards there. I love that Sindelar, I have a Bulgaria and Konig but no Greiling yet. Likewise I have a few other Meazza and Mazzola but I've been foiled on past attempts to pick up their key cards, I also stupidly missed out on a Circus Girl GO Smith auction this week due to an overrunning appointment.

I guess the question is whether is whether you interpret a top 10 as "grail cards" weighted towards rarity and significance of the issue or towards including top players and recognisable, iconic cards for people new to the hobby.

Going for the second interpretation I'd go for this as a top 10

1946 Monte Cudine Di Stefano
1947 Naninina Puskas
1956 Vecchi Garrincha
1963 Panini Eusebio
1964 Barratt A12 Best
1968 Palirex Cruyff
1974 Ageducatifs Platini
1977 Futbol Maradona
2002 Mega craques Ronaldo
2004 Megacracks Messi

Yes it's boring, many are not especially rare, some aren't true rookies, some might argue discs aren't cards and I remember reading somewhere there are doubts about the authenticity of the Monte Cudines (if someone knows more about this I'd love to hear). It's a shame but a lot of fans are not interested in pre war players, perhaps Dixie Dean and Meazza come closest. Even here in England the vast majority of fans have never heard of the likes of GO Smith, Meredith, Bloomer, Needham, etc you'd probably just know the ones from the club you support.
OMG, would have loved to pick another one up!!!!
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:43 AM
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Default Sorry... blank back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collect Equity View Post
WOW! Those are some really cool cards. I just love the amazing variety of vintage soccer cards

Most of my collection is Pele and I have only dabbled in non-Pele cards. So I don't actually own any of these cards. I did bid on the really poor condition 1920s Crack Nasazzi that recently was on eBay and got slaughtered compared to how much others were willing to spend on the beat up card.

I'd love to see a back for the Andrade card. I have never seen that one. Can you post a back for it? Also, backs for any other cards with cool, non-blank backs?
So there is nothing to show. I have the entire team, that that is why the date can be placed to 1928 (Olympic team).
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Yep, it's like that in all the sports.
Bobby Orr got more than a little recognition, no?
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Bobby Orr got more than a little recognition, no?
Orr at his peak was the best offensive player in the world...even as a defenseman (see 2 Art Ross Trophies).

There has never and will never be a defender in football who is the best attacking player.

Defenders and goalkeepers, while critical to any teamís success, are not considered the most talented players. In a sense, they play anti-football rather than football; football is about movement, controlling the ball, passing, dribbling, finishing, etc and defenders and keepers attempt to disrupt that.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:19 AM
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Default good point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Bobby Orr got more than a little recognition, no?
can we name a lot more? there may be a handful.... across all sports and all time... my point is that they are the super exceptions...
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
OMG, would have loved to pick another one up!!!!
It came up in a UK auction house, went for £360, kicking myself as I had registered to bid but something came up that meant I missed it.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aljurgela View Post
can we name a lot more? there may be a handful.... across all sports and all time... my point is that they are the super exceptions...
Yes I agree, was just surprised because no one had named the most obvious exception.

Football the Butkus RC is pretty popular also.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelimey View Post
Unfortunately defenders never get the credit they deserve. Beckenbauer, Moore, Baresi, Maldini, Facchetti all brilliant but always looked over. It's crazy how their cards are valued compared to attacking players. Someone like Elias Figueroa won South American footballer of the year three times in a row, just after Pele and just before Zico, yet is almost completely unknown.
I donít know about his cards but, in terms of English players, Moore would be as iconic as any forward. For example, Geoff Hurst scored the famous hat trick as England defeated West Germany in the 1966 World Cup Final but Moore is still viewed as the legend of that team and the image of him wiping his hands clean using his shirt before he shook hands with the Queen just before lifting the Jukes Rimet trophy is legendary.

Certainly, in terms of match worn items and autographs, Moore would be very collectible - albeit his autograph tends to be more rare simply because he died in 1993 which is much earlier than most players of his era.



Great to see George Best pictured in this thread. A legend across the island of Ireland. Today, at Windsor Park (the Northern Ireland National Stadium), a bronze statue of Best was unveiled. Had he been alive, today would have been his 73rd birthday:


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...-38137819.html
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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Default Very cool perspective from across the pond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulidia View Post
I donít know about his cards but, in terms of English players, Moore would be as iconic as any forward. For example, Geoff Hurst scored the famous hat trick as England defeated West Germany in the 1966 World Cup Final but Moore is still viewed as the legend of that team and the image of him wiping his hands clean using his shirt before he shook hands with the Queen just before lifting the Jukes Rimet trophy is legendary.

Certainly, in terms of match worn items and autographs, Moore would be very collectible - albeit his autograph tends to be more rare simply because he died in 1993 which is much earlier than most players of his era.



Great to see George Best pictured in this thread. A legend across the island of Ireland. Today, at Windsor Park (the Northern Ireland National Stadium), a bronze statue of Best was unveiled. Had he been alive, today would have been his 73rd birthday:


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...-38137819.html
I remember hearing somewhere a quote along these lines: "Pele was Great, but George was the Best"...

Cute play on words, but to consider him at that level certainly means something. I included what I believe to be the BEST George Best card and Bobby Moore card on my "Top 20 or so non-Pele" post 1950 thread.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2019, 02:52 PM
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Default Reading this again... and....

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelimey View Post
I like your choices, there are some amazing cards there. I love that Sindelar, I have a Bulgaria and Konig but no Greiling yet. Likewise I have a few other Meazza and Mazzola but I've been foiled on past attempts to pick up their key cards, I also stupidly missed out on a Circus Girl GO Smith auction this week due to an overrunning appointment.

I guess the question is whether is whether you interpret a top 10 as "grail cards" weighted towards rarity and significance of the issue or towards including top players and recognisable, iconic cards for people new to the hobby.

Going for the second interpretation I'd go for this as a top 10

1946 Monte Cudine Di Stefano
1947 Naninina Puskas
1956 Vecchi Garrincha
1963 Panini Eusebio
1964 Barratt A12 Best
1968 Palirex Cruyff
1974 Ageducatifs Platini
1977 Futbol Maradona
2002 Mega craques Ronaldo
2004 Megacracks Messi

Yes it's boring, many are not especially rare, some aren't true rookies, some might argue discs aren't cards and I remember reading somewhere there are doubts about the authenticity of the Monte Cudines (if someone knows more about this I'd love to hear). It's a shame but a lot of fans are not interested in pre war players, perhaps Dixie Dean and Meazza come closest. Even here in England the vast majority of fans have never heard of the likes of GO Smith, Meredith, Bloomer, Needham, etc you'd probably just know the ones from the club you support.
I really like the list.... I cannot argue with any of these...
__________________
Al Jurgela
Looking for:
1910 Punch (Plank)
50 Hage's Dairy (Minoso)
All Oscar Charleston Cards
Rare Soccer cards
Rare Boxing cards
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