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  #1  
Old 09-29-2019, 06:33 AM
kevinlenane kevinlenane is offline
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Default BBCE 1952 Topps Wax Pack "Brick"

Looks odd but also kind of amazing

https://www.bbcexchange.com/1952-Top...ck-8-Wax-Packs

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1952 Topps Baseball Unopened Brick (8) Wax Packs. A few decades ago there was a find of 1952 Topps Baseball wax packs on the West Coast. There were a few "bricks" of wax packs that were wrapped in groups of 8. This lot consists of (8) 1952 Topps baseball wax packs (most likely 1st series) that are wrapped together in cellophane. The packs themselves appear to be fresh and NM-MT or better! Please e-mail for further details.
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2019, 09:22 AM
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It was on display at the National for $575,000. Price is plunging

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 09-29-2019 at 09:33 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
It was on display at the National for $575,000. Price is plunging
Ouch!
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:09 AM
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Looks like this is it:



I did some further research and I found this:



So the high numbers only came in the above blue/red wrappers?
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:03 PM
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So if you were a gambler the only path to making your money back would be to a pull a Pafko from every pack and a few PSA 10's. I often look at the equity of opening packs and boxes, and even as prices get crazy, if you break it down often it's around break-even. This one not so much.
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:55 PM
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This one is a luxury item not intended to be broken up; would you break up a diamond tennis bracelet into smaller pieces? Definitely no money in breaking it due to the heavy likelihood of way off-centered cards.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2019, 02:25 PM
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Can never do unopened packs. Even if I had the money I could not resist the temptation to open them lol
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2019, 03:25 PM
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To buy that that lot I would have to install a security system in my home for that piece alone. High or low number multiple packs from 1952 Topps is a huge find could be said a holy grail of sports wax pack finds.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Last edited by MotherLodeT205; 09-29-2019 at 03:26 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2019, 03:42 PM
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Default Raise the Topps!

Maybe it's time for Robert Ballard to take his fleet of submersibles and search for the 'wreck' of all the boxes of '52 Topps high numbers dumped into the Atlantic. Perhaps cellophaned bricks are patiently waiting beneath the waves.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2019, 08:25 AM
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If the high numbers only came in the red, white, and blue wrappers have any unopened packs surfaced? This is the first time I ever saw that wrapper. If a wrapper still exists there is a chance a pack still exists.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2019, 08:29 AM
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The story goes that Sy Berger was on the barge to personally see the cases dumped into the ocean. I bet if he wasn't on that barge to over see it those cases would have made it back into circulation and 1952 Topps high numbers would not be so rare.

In other words barge company takes the money, tell you I am dumping your cards in the ocean, never dump your cards in the ocean, try to resell the cards and make even more money. I guess the cards had no street value back then. Oh well, that didn't happen but it's fun to think of "what ifs".

Last edited by jsanz; 09-30-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2019, 05:18 PM
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And i'll bet that Topps ended up having Card Collectors Company sell off most of the remaining high numbers and create some spurious upwelling in the pricing of same in the 60's by concocting a story they were dumped at sea.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2019, 06:24 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is online now
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Yea...because they are so readily available and collectors just think they are hard to find.



Guys, it's been 60 years, they've what they are regardless if you believe it or not. Even on Ebay they are holding value. Not to mention maybe one or two dealers have them at shows.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2019, 08:55 AM
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They want more for that brick than what my house would reasonably sell for, and are basically admitting it doesn't contain a Mantle...

Don't get me wrong, I understand - but still shaking my head.
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  #15  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:41 AM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
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I always thought the story was that they were dumped into the East River...not the ocean?
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  #16  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
They want more for that brick than what my house would reasonably sell for, and are basically admitting it doesn't contain a Mantle...

Don't get me wrong, I understand - but still shaking my head.
I guess your house isn't considered "rare"!
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Promethius88 View Post
I always thought the story was that they were dumped into the East River...not the ocean?
A ruse IMO, the dumping at sea. Out of character for Topps in that era to spend money on disposal of something they could still sell somewhere. Repackaging and sales through Card Collectors Co and a few other select, employee-affiliated outlets was their MO but some highs also got exported to South America. If they got dumped, Bush Terminal had ample facilities to allow for disposal of bulk items without hiring a tug and scow. In addition, Topps used a carting company at Bush Terminal to haul their refuse.

Were some destroyed? Possibly. Was the print run shorter than the semi-highs? Yes it seems so but not THAT much-there were no penny packs and I believe they only did two packaging runs at most (wax and vending). Check out these comparative figures from a canvass I did of eBay today:

CARD COUNT PLAYER
251 62
252 92
253 80
254 100
255 81
256 107
257 57
258 83
259 87
260 84
261 72 MAYS
262 38
263 57
264 99
265 83
266 78
267 87
268 52
269 69
270 92
271 49
272 31
273 36
274 28
275 60
276 35
277 41
278 53
279 57
280 25
281 36
282 30
283 54
284 55
285 67
286 48
287 25
288 61
289 20
290 41
291 53
292 67
293 61
294 36
295 27
296 27
297 48
298 49
299 60
300 50
301 51
302 51
303 43
304 45
305 42
306 53
307 31 CAMPOS
308 33
309 34
310 37
311 42 MANTLE
312 22 ROBINSON
313 51 THOMSON
314 23 CAMPANELLA
315 26 DUROCHER
316 27
317 22
318 37
319 31
320 30
321 26
322 26
323 37
324 22
325 31
326 47
327 21
328 23
329 20
330 16
331 20
332 7 BARTIROME
333 37 REESE
334 22
335 13
336 38
337 39
338 25
339 14
340 24
341 23
342 23
343 27
344 33
345 24
346 38
347 22
348 26
349 41
350 34
351 38
352 28
353 27
354 17
355 29
356 28
357 19
358 48
359 17
360 28
361 31
362 16
363 41
364 37
365 48
366 45
367 52
368 60
369 13
370 17
371 30
372 30
373 28
374 28
375 26
376 16
377 54
378 23
379 38
380 28
381 32
382 22
383 22
384 21
385 38
386 16
387 41
388 38
389 36
390 38
391 39
392 8 WILHELM
393 33
394 34
395 30
396 19 WILLIAMS
397 31
398 16
399 30
400 20 DICKEY
401 29
402 27
403 19
404 24
405 29
406 19
407 15 MATHEWS

There's a couple of anomalies in the semi's and the high's but roughly speaking for every 2 semi-high's there is a high; some highs in my canvass were available in greater numbers than some semi-highs-there were as many as 60 available of one subject (#368). The highs are in demand and infamous, they are indeed "highnumberesque" but they exist in numbers that I can't consider to be scarce. You could assemble seven high number runs on eBay at this moment if you had the cash and about that many near-runs missing only 3 or 4 numbers. That is not scarce. Availability for the semi-highs ranges from 25-107 cards, vs 7-60 for the highs

Last edited by toppcat; 10-04-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:36 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is online now
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Ridiculous. Your control group is skewed.

People don't list poor condition $1 commons as singles on ebay, but a poor high number gets $40. The juice has to be worth the squeeze.

You wasted hours of your life on this trying to prove what? People are just over paying for high numbers? Go walk around a show like I do and ask every dealer. They don't come around, and they sell quickly

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  #19  
Old 10-04-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Ridiculous. Your control group is skewed.

People don't list poor condition $1 commons as singles on ebay, but a poor high number gets $40. The juice has to be worth the squeeze.

You wasted hours of your life on this trying to prove what? People are just over paying for high numbers? Go walk around a show like I do and ask every dealer. They don't come around, and they sell quickly

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Not a waste at all Ted, I got to remind myself what a #ucking nitwit you are.

Last edited by Leon; 10-07-2019 at 09:24 AM. Reason: f bomb
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2019, 08:17 PM
Jason19th Jason19th is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Ridiculous. Your control group is skewed.

People don't list poor condition $1 commons as singles on ebay, but a poor high number gets $40. The juice has to be worth the squeeze.

You wasted hours of your life on this trying to prove what? People are just over paying for high numbers? Go walk around a show like I do and ask every dealer. They don't come around, and they sell quickly

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Is putting together a low grade 52 set I disagree. Lots of people list lots of low condition commons as singles. Also, poor condition highs go for much more then 40
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  #21  
Old 10-05-2019, 02:19 PM
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The sad part about this hobby is that almost everybody believes the bullsh*t that gets fed to them. There are very few of us who challenge commonly held beliefs. Toppcat's post shows that there is nothing special about the high numbers and I thought this all along. There are plenty of em' out there for everyone!

Let's look at the 1951 Bowmans - same sh*t. When I started taking interest in this set, I would research online and read things like "high numbers are scarce! Very tough high numbers! High numbers are more difficult to find!" Well, let's do a quick eBay search from Canada, shall we?

#1 Whitey Ford (57)
#2 Yogi Berra (29)
#3 Robin Roberts (30)

#305 Willie Mays (39)
#306 Jim Piersall (26)
#307 Walt Masterson (50)

Hmmmm ...

Last edited by samosa4u; 10-05-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
Not a waste at all Ted, I got to remind myself what a *ucking nitwit you are.

I'm sure when your parents watched you in marching band, they swore up and down you were the only one who was "in step".

Any other experiments or pipedreams Dr Stranglove that I can simply poke a hole in?

I just wish you'd waited until I sold off all my high numbers before the radical change in thought amongst buyers.


Walk into a show, let me know how many you find. Ask dealers how long they last when they are in the case. It must just be a frenzy based on 65 years of rumors.
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Last edited by Leon; 10-07-2019 at 09:25 AM. Reason: f bomb
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2019, 04:37 PM
mckinneyj mckinneyj is offline
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As a collector or 52Ts I find myself in Ted's camp. The 52 semi-high commons can frequently be found in lots along with lower numbered cards without any special mention on ebay. Any lots with highs included are sure to advertise as such. Vendors at card shows have trouble finding or keeping any high series cards. Semi-highs are easily found at shows. I think the price differential between the high and semi-high series is an accurate reflection of the relative populations. Just my observation/experience...
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
I'm sure when your parents watched you in marching band, they swore up and down you were the only one who was "in step".

Any other experiments or pipedreams Dr Stranglove that I can simply poke a hole in?

I just wish you'd waited until I sold off all my high numbers before the radical change in thought amongst buyers.


Walk into a show, let me know how many you find. Ask dealers how long they last when they are in the case. It must just be a frenzy based on 65 years of rumors.
Have a nice day Ted.

Last edited by toppcat; 10-05-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2019, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckinneyj View Post
As a collector or 52Ts I find myself in Ted's camp. The 52 semi-high commons can frequently be found in lots along with lower numbered cards without any special mention on ebay. Any lots with highs included are sure to advertise as such. Vendors at card shows have trouble finding or keeping any high series cards. Semi-highs are easily found at shows. I think the price differential between the high and semi-high series is an accurate reflection of the relative populations. Just my observation/experience...
I think the spread is accurate to a point, there is some type of "legendary" status kicker working with the highs as well. I did the canvass as I have never really seen a comparison of the semi and high series anywhere, so it was instructive and I figured I could get a blog post out of it as well. I thought there would be less highs than I found. 60 of #368 surprised me for sure.
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2019, 05:52 PM
sflayank sflayank is offline
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Default 52s

Just look at the pop report
Every card from 100 to 407 with the exception of mantle May's berra feller ..the same pop
500-60] cards of each approx...
That's over 50000 hi#s graded
Probably 250000 not graded
Rare? Hmmm
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
Just look at the pop report
Every card from 100 to 407 with the exception of mantle May's berra feller ..the same pop
500-60] cards of each approx...
That's over 50000 hi#s graded
Probably 250000 not graded
Rare? Hmmm
Yup. In demand vs rare.
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  #28  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:56 AM
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Let's rely on skewed data, not people who collect the set.


Advantage of grading a low grade common


Advantage of grading a high number.

No affect on cards submitted.

High numbers, hardly rare or scarce. Demand outweighs supply.


Im having a great day Dave. Not wasting my life debating and researching something I cant control. I worked with the 52 set for a majority of my collecting career, only about 25 years. Aside from Rosen's find, that produced many of the high grade Highs in the pop report, I dont believe I've seen any collection with only or the same amount of high numbers.


I have a hard time believing even repacks 10 years later would go unnoticed and not be scooped up by at least a few collectors working on the set.

I dont believe for one second, given the stars and amount of Giants, Yankees, and red sox in the high series, were an accident. It was loaded with September world series hopefuls and stars to encourage buying late in the season.


These are just opinions, and certainly worth what you paid for them. Just wanted to add my two cents.

I've also edited for spelling, not because I typed in some roid rage....David
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Last edited by Republicaninmass; 10-07-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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  #29  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Let's rely on skewed data, not people who collect the set.


Advantage of grading a low grade common


Advantage of grading a high number.

No affect on cards submitted.

High numbers, hardly rare or scarce. Demand outweighs supply.


Im having a great day Dave. Not wasting my life debating and researching something I cant control. I worked with the 52 set for a majority of my collecting career, only about 25 years. Aside from Rosen's find, that produced many of the high grade Highs in the pop report, I dont believe I've seen any collection with only or the same amount of high numbers.


I have a hard time believing even repacks 10 years later would go unnoticed and not be scooped up by at least a few collectors working on the set.

I dont believe for one second, given the stars and amount of Giants, Yankees, and red sox in the high series, were an accident. It was loaded with September world series hopefuls and stars to encourage buying late in the season.


These are just opinions, and certainly worth what you paid for them. Just wanted to add my two cents.

I've also edited for spelling, not because I typed in some roid rage....David
Hmmm, I haven't said about half the things you think I did and I don't think you have ever understood my original point, which was Topps never dumped the cards at Sea and instead got rid of excess warehouse stock to CCC around 1960, who sold them as singles.

Last edited by toppcat; 10-07-2019 at 07:14 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2019, 06:12 PM
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I have always felt the dump them in the ocean story was a Topps intended urban legend. Why go to that trouble ? But having put the 52 set together in semi master format ( sill need several gray backs) the scarcity of the high numbers seems real to me. But I do think it is played by sellers for all it's worth

By the way I owe thanks to both Dave and Ted thanks for sharing info with me on this set over the years
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  #31  
Old 10-07-2019, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I have always felt the dump them in the ocean story was a Topps intended urban legend. Why go to that trouble ? But having put the 52 set together in semi master format ( sill need several gray backs) the scarcity of the high numbers seems real to me. But I do think it is played by sellers for all it's worth

By the way I owe thanks to both Dave and Ted thanks for sharing info with me on this set over the years
Al, how many grays do you have?
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  #32  
Old 10-07-2019, 07:45 PM
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Whether the story is specifically true is up to debate, but the regularity with which stuff was dumped into the ocean way back when was a fact of life. I recently saw a prohibition era newsreel where they were dumping seemingly thousands upon thousands of weapons seized from organized crime right into the Atlantic Ocean. My mouth was agape, but it was SOP back then. And I don't know the actual specifics of the 'legend,' but if Topps jettisoned their surplus into the drink, it doesn't mean they ran their own barge out there. I'm sure they could've brought their junk to some sort of collection point where companies from all over brought their rubbish to be disposed of. Who knows.
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  #33  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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Well I have said my piece, offered my opinion and I am tapping out of this back and forth. The brick abides.

Last edited by toppcat; 10-08-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-07-2019, 09:25 PM
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Default SY Berger

Sy Berger in an SCD interview stated that the print run was wildly popular with vendors because of the success of earlier series. They were released too late. They did not sell and vendors returned them to Topps.

Berger subsequently tried to sell the cards by unconventional means like giving them away at carnivals etc. Tremendous backlog at their warehouse. There was no demand for the cards.

They were loaded on a barge and dumped in the ocean. This occurred in 1959

Topps didn't keep inventory of unopened product.

No reason for him to make up a story for this. I believe what he says.

https://www.sportscollectorsdigest.c...of_the_modern/
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  #35  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:07 AM
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Default 52t

amazing how in talking about baseball cards... stuff we all love..thats why were on this site…. a guy gets nasty...the other guy comes back...and before you now it...its insult ping pong !

just ridiculous...
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:55 AM
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amazing how in talking about baseball cards... stuff we all love..thats why were on this site…. a guy gets nasty...the other guy comes back...and before you now it...its insult ping pong !

just ridiculous...
Yes, I agree and have stopped volleying. I don't regret my original response to insult no 1 though.
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  #37  
Old 10-08-2019, 04:07 PM
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I don't know much about the unopened pack market, but is there some premium placed on these because they were from that specific find and wrapped together in a "brick"?

If they're really in NM condition I would have thought they'd bring more graded and sold individually.
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  #38  
Old 10-08-2019, 04:59 PM
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From the find, probably. Wrapped in a brick? Unlikely. Currently they're at a very high price looking for a whale. Give it another few months if they haven't sold, and I'd expect the company to relist them individually so more people can add a single one to their collection.
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  #39  
Old 10-08-2019, 06:19 PM
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Hmmm, I haven't said about half the things you think I did and I don't think you have ever understood my original point, which was Topps never dumped the cards at Sea and instead got rid of excess warehouse stock to CCC around 1960, who sold them as singles.

Dont give yourself that importance.

I was addressing the myths regarding the topps highs.

I couldnt care less about your opinion.

There are simply not enough of them to have been sold through 1960. Unless each person is hoarding them like #332

That is unless you want to speculate that people thought the set ended at 310, which many did because highs WERE NOT AVAILABLE. Some have mentioned they thought it ended at 250


Ok, maybe they werent dumped at sea, it doesnt make your skewed data any more factual.
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  #40  
Old 10-08-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Dont give yourself that importance.

I was addressing the myths regarding the topps highs.

I couldnt care less about your opinion.

There are simply not enough of them to have been sold through 1960. Unless each person is hoarding them like #332

That is unless you want to speculate that people thought the set ended at 310, which many did because highs WERE NOT AVAILABLE. Some have mentioned they thought it ended at 250


Ok, maybe they werent dumped at sea, it doesnt make your skewed data any more factual.
Have a nice night Ted!
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  #41  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:36 PM
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Default Topps Photo Archives

Guys, I would hope that this historical photo might resolve the issue once and for all.
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File Type: jpg SS Topps - 1952.jpg (74.4 KB, 316 views)
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  #42  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:05 PM
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What a waste of good gum
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  #43  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:38 PM
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What a waste of good gum

I understand that for decades, there have been grouper pulled out of the East River with strange jaw malformations.
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  #44  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:03 PM
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Keep the good info coming, gang. I took it as friendly banter between two rival experts. I'm soaking it up like a sponge in my new quest to put together a 1952 Topps set. MikeD and his 1976 set has inspired me to do 1952.
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  #45  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:28 AM
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i understand that for decades, there have been grouper pulled out of the east river with strange jaw malformations.
lol
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  #47  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:47 PM
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Perhaps cellophaned bricks are patiently waiting beneath the waves.
Let's get rid of the and pretend this is an actual genuine real fact. If there really were cellophaned packs of cards that have been sitting underwater for almost 60 years, would they be salvageable?
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  #48  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:49 PM
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If there really were cellophaned packs of cards that have been sitting underwater for almost 60 years, would they be salvageable?
Too late. Al Rosen already got to them.
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  #49  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:28 PM
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Let's get rid of the and pretend this is an actual genuine real fact. If there really were cellophaned packs of cards that have been sitting underwater for almost 60 years, would they be salvageable?
Not in salt water, they would be gone pretty quickly.
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  #50  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Keep the good info coming, gang. I took it as friendly banter between two rival experts. I'm soaking it up like a sponge in my new quest to put together a 1952 Topps set. MikeD and his 1976 set has inspired me to do 1952.
Always glad to inspire another collector to take on a long, expensive project.

I'll be living vicariously through you!
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