Goudey Ruth

[dougscats]

This is a busy day for me, and I hope you'll excuse me, but I'm excited.

I just bought a '33 Goudey Ruth, and I want to know the expert's opinion as to whether or not it's authentic, if that's possible.
Despite the fuzzy scan--the bottom of it, the red part, looks real, with not a defined/straight border-line.

I've always wanted this card but couldn't afford the $700-1,000 even a poor one would cost. I'll take the back damage as long as it's authentic. I figured that, as the seller claimed it was original, I could get a refund if it wasn't. Please let me know if I'm right about that.

Usually I pay immediately, but I haven't paid yet; I'd like to hear from the board first.

I tried to include the scan, but The ebay image does not copy and paste. If someone can tell me how to show the picture, I will.
Thanks for your trouble.

The item number and other text did copy, as follows:

Babe Ruth 1933 GOUDEY #144

Item condition: Acceptable

Ended: Jan 10, 201113:06:38 PST

Bid history: 2 bids

Winning bid: US $333.00

Shipping: FREE shipping Expedited ShippingSee more services See shipping discounts | See all shipping details

Delivery: Estimated within 5-6 business days

Returns: 7 day money back, buyer pays return shipping | Read return policy details

Learn moreabout eBay Buyer Protection - opens in a new window or tab

Seller info
Member id chris5235 ( Feedback Score Of 145)

100% Positive feedback

Other item info
Item number: 190486498626
Item location: Des moines, WA, United States

Original/Reprint: Original

League: Major Leagues Product: Single
Team: New York Yankees Era: Pre-WWII (Pre-1942)
Player: Babe Ruth Year: 1933
Card Manufacturer: Goudey

[ctownboy]

I am by no means an expert and am ALWAYS skeptical of ungraded, high dollar cards on eBay. So, for this card I vote fake.

My reasons:

1) Ungraded

2) Fuzzy, long distance scan.

3) Borders have that artificial aging look to them.

4) Back is damaged where the words "REPRINT" might show up.

5) Fairly low selling price for a card with a decent looking front

6) Seller also has a 1940 Play Ball Dimaggio for sale (ungraded).

7) Seller only buys coins.

If real, I don't know what this card would grade, as in, if it would get a numerical grade or just an AUTH but if a 1 normally goes for $700 - $1,000, like you say, then this card sold for less than half of the lower range and only had two bids.

That tells me either people didn't see this card or had questions about it. I say this because if I had the money and were looking for a filler Ruth for my 1933 Goudey set and was prepared to spend $700 - $1,000 dollars on a low grade one and saw this card, I would jump at the chance to get a bargain.

Finally, when questions like this arise about cards, I take it as a chance to test my knowledge and skills, as far as being able to tell real cards from fakes so I cant wait to hear what the experts say about this card.

Good luck,

David

[fkw]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=190486498626


Its a reprint. On this type of reprint you will see the "G" in "George" in top left corner, and the top of the hat are way too close to the border. Even though the scan is bad, you can tell the roof is too short compared to authentic cards. Plus the uniform is too white compared to the artificially aged borders.

The back damage is right where the words "Renata Galasso Reprint" was scuffed off, between the words "GOUDEY GUM CO." and "BOSTON"

[dougscats]

Thanks, David, for your good observations.

I'll take this opportunity to rephrase what I said earlier: I'll pay for this item by the end of the night unless I hear compelling evidence not to.

I imagine it might be impossible to tell whether it's authentic without looking at a good scan or seeing the card up close. Assuming that I do pay tonight, when I get the card, I'll post a good scan. I do see that the seller offers a 7-day refund, and that makes me feel more secure.

Thanks in advance to any others for your help.

Doug

[dougscats]

Whoa! That's pretty compelling, Frank, and at this point I'm beginning to feel pretty stupid. At least I had the sense to ask the board.
I'd rather feel stupid than than lose $333 or go to the trouble of trying to get a refund.

I'll wait awhile to see if anyone else has anything to add.

Thanks.

Doug

[fkw]

With the scan being so bad, the only compelling evidence is the roof.

The roof is missing the top 20% which shows that the whole top edge was cropped when they designed these reprints.

I knew it was a reprint right away because Ive seen so many of this type of reprint. With a clear scan you will see that the "G" and the "(B" are going to be almost touching the left border and the gap above Ruths hat will be almost completely gone (should be a gap of yellow background above the hat)

The other things that jump out are the overall color of the border are way too dark for the wear (tea/coffee stained), and the back damage right where the word reprint was scuffed off, and the back ink is too dark.

[CW]

Do not pay for it. See post above yours, which was likely
posted at the time you were composing your 6:10pm post.

edit: whoops! Nevermind...

[Matt]

Buying a raw Goudey Ruth or Gehrig just based on a blurry scan is an incredibly dangerous proposition. They are some of the most reprinted cards out there and there are some compelling reprints floating around.

[dstraate]

Just a couple of things that are shameless reprints from other board members. You could have seen this was trouble with no scan.

Don't buy a high dollar card from a low feedback seller. 145 is a feedback rating that can be replicated with two months of intensive reprint buying.

Don't buy a high dollar card from a guy unless he's sold 5-10 similar or more valuable cards in the last 90 days. The more the better.

Don't buy a high dollar card from a guy with a blurry scan. Even if it came from his grandfather's attic.

Trying to shave 400 bucks of the final price to get a great deal is not something you do with a Goudey Ruth.

Not trying to preach at all. These are just some the the things I've picked up this board.

BTW... The best thing you did was consult this board. In the end, you came out great

[Fred]

Run, as fast as you can, from that card! Yikes!

[dougscats]

Thanks for all your good information and advice.
I feel quite chastened and embarrassed, of course, like I should've known better.

I'll be more careful next time.

I've written the seller and asked him to cancel the sale.
I'll let you know how it comes out.

Doug

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Matt

Buying a raw Goudey Ruth or Gehrig just based on a blurry scan is an incredibly dangerous proposition. They are some of the most reprinted cards out there and there are some compelling reprints floating around.

this. (or +1...or qft)

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

this. (or +1...or qft)

Quan,

+1 is still a mystery to many. Please hold off on the qft's.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Quan,

+1 is still a mystery to many. Please hold off on the qft's.

YAJWD
(You ain't just whistlin' Dixie).

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Kawika

YAJWD
(You ain't just whistlin' Dixie).

Very few on this board understand Quantum Field Theory.

[iggyman]

Don't feel embarrass, sometimes in life you have to take a calculated chance. You did the right thing by coming here before making payment. You had a little knowledge, you used it, and now you have a little bit more knowledge for the next time. Nothing loss, except for a disappointed eBay reprint seller, and I wouldn't shed a tear for them.

Raw authentic Goudey's can still be found on eBay every once in awhile. Including Ruth and Gehrig cards. You need a good handle on which ones to pull the trigger-on. But, at the end of the day it is not rocket science quantum field theory; just takes some time and common sense. You are almost there!

Just remember, prewar cards are not like Topps 1972 cards. If you see a legitimate raw Ruth, rest assure, that a few others will have eyes on it as well, and real ones will never sell in the $300 range. A month ago, I snaged a raw 1933 Goudey Ruth (with some back damage) for $400 via the best offer option. That is the exception, but you can certainly find a 1933 Goudey Ruth in the mid $500 range. If you are willing to pay $300+ for a reprint Ruth, not much of a stretch to get into the $500 range (just plea for some $$$ on your next birthday, who needs a purple tie anyways...).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120645424732

Lovely Day...

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Very few on this board understand Quantum Field Theory.

E = mc**2 and payday's Friday.

[vintagecpa]

Your first Ruth should be a special card. I recommend not going cheap on one with that type of damage.

[dougscats]

Thanks again for all your input.

The seller, though he maintained it was authentic and offered to send better scans, cancelled the sale. And he didn't send the better scans.

I did know it was a calculated risk when I bought the card. I should've asked him for a better scan to begin with, I suppose. I'll surely be much more skeptical of fuzzy scans in the future, and I've learned better [how] to research such an item. So as Iggyman says, I'll profit from the experience as I keep on looking for one of these [the four '33 Goudeys].

I do have three Ruths by the way [a Sanella, a graded W517 [throwing], and a '34 Goudey premium, all in pretty poor condition], accumulated on ebay over the last six years. But I've always wanted one of the '33 Goudey Ruths; they seem to me his best/most iconic cards.

What's your favorite Ruth?

Doug

[Republicaninmass]

If we are talking Goudey Ruth's, my Favorite is the Green #181