M101-2 Wagner and Cobb/Wagner Supplements

[mdallen22]

BMW has two very nice examples of the M101-2 Sporting News Supplements of Wagner and Cobb/Wagner on eBay (Links below). What is a fair price to offer for both? They look like very strong examples and Brian is certain they would grade some of the highest grades every recorded. I wanted everyone's opinion on them. I want to make a fair offer but they are still raw and i don't want to pay prices of what they would be worth IF they got graded high, because who knows what the final grade would be. I'm not an expert on how Beckett would grades supplements. Looking for any feedback.

If it's unprofessional to discuss offer prices and who's selling pieces i apologize just want to hear form members of this forum.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390083477877...ht_2373wt_1346

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400068411117...ht_2374wt_1346


Thank you,
Mike

[Bicem]

Those are nice, does Beckett grade matter when it comes to these things? I know I'd much rather have them raw.

[mdallen22]

To me, the potential Beckett grade does not matter much, but his offer to me, I feel, is weighted too much on how well they would grade. I don't want to overpay especially for something i can physically hold in my hands and examine myself. So i was looking for opinions on the potential fair market value of these supplements in today's hobby.

-Mike

[drumback]

I have been collecting this set for a couple years now. In my opinion, they are worth, at most, about 60% of what he is asking. Of course, nice ones are hard to find, so you might have to wait awhile to find them at more reasonable prices. I would advise against grading. The holders Beckett uses are very large and thick. If you are working on a set, they will require a lot of space, and they will only fit in the largest size of safety deposit boxes, if that is an issue. Also, with the wrinkling described in the listing, best grade you are likely to get is a 3. I recommend put them in 8 x 10 toploaders, with a piece of light cardboard to stiffen the holder and protect the supplement. There is nothing on the back to see anyway.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by drumback

I have been collecting this set for a couple years now. In my opinion, they are worth, at most, about 60% of what he is asking. Of course, nice ones are hard to find, so you might have to wait awhile to find them at more reasonable prices. I would advise against grading.

I agree with everything that drumback said. I actually have mine stored in these albums http://www.misterart.com/display-pre...play-book.html instead of toploaders.

The incredibly overpriced items listed on ebay have been there for a very long time which illustrates how overpriced they are. Every collector of this issue has seen those listings over and over, and many of us have made (what we consider) better than fair offers, only to be turned down, illustrating that the seller is in no hurry to sell, and may not actually want to sell at all.

I have 96 of the 100 in the set (I also have 34 of the 62 in the m101-1 set), and the 4 that I need have been staring at me on ebay for as long as I can remember, with prices set at an amount that will make the (minimal) listing fees well worth paying if somebody gets drunk enough to hit the buy-it-now button after winning the lottery.

If you want to get a pretty good idea of what the market thinks is a fair price, put them on ebay with a $1 starting bid and set the reserve at the price of the (eternally) listed (always destined to be) unsold ones. The bidding will end somewhere in the middle, then you will know what they are "worth".

Take care,
Doug



PS - actual collectors of this issue tend to not care about the opinion of grading companies, the people who care about such opinions are the people who care only about the "value" of their items and think that paying for an opinion might get them more "value".

[doug.goodman]

I just realized that mdallen22 isn't trying to sell, but he is hoping to buy the ones listed on ebay.

Good luck Mike, but be aware that those aren't "really" for sale.

Doug

[mdallen22]

Doug,

Well said. I raised these questions because i didn't want to overpay and everyone has confirmed that is exactly what id be doing, and the seller on eBay is on no hurry to sell his items.

Many have commented on owning some supplements; if anyone can give me a lead on purchasing these two pieces let me know, i'd be happy to make a fair offer.

[doug.goodman]

And welcome to the forum Mike.

Are you working on the set, or just looking for Cobb?

Doug

[mdallen22]

Thanks Doug

No i'm not working on the set, but i am looking for Pirates, specifically the Wagner pieces.

Mike

[doug.goodman]

Fun, good luck with your your Pirates collection.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by mdallen22

Doug,

Well said. I raised these questions because i didn't want to overpay and everyone has confirmed that is exactly what id be doing, and the seller on eBay is on no hurry to sell his items.

Many have commented on owning some supplements; if anyone can give me a lead on purchasing these two pieces let me know, i'd be happy to make a fair offer.

IMO in their conditions the Wagner is worth around $500-750 and the Cobb/Wagner $1200-1500.

As Jeff, Mark, & Doug have said, a grading company isn't going to tell you much that you can't see from the back of the supplement. You can see tears, mold, etc from a good back scan so a grade from a 3rd party isn't necessarily going to bring more money. If you are only in it for the money, maybe now is a good time to get these graded cuz registry wars haven't yet started for these. If you are a collector though, this isn't as important.

As a side note, you said you are looking for Pirates pieces. There are a few other Pirates in the set (that'll be much cheaper on the pocket too, except maybe the Pirates Team issue):

Oct 7, 1909 Fred Clarke
Nov 11, 1909 Pirates Team
Dec 23, 1909 Thomas Leach
Jan 20, 1910 Charles Adams
Mar 10, 1910 George Gibson & Bugs Raymond
Jan 26, 1911 Robert Byrnes
Oct 26, 1911 Martin O'Toole & William Kelly

Good luck!

[drumback]

I will actually pay more for a raw supplement than a graded one. I've had to bust a couple out, and it ain't easy.

Rob is the king of M101-2. If there are any you can't find, it's cause Rob has them all!

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by drumback

I will actually pay more for a raw supplement than a graded one. I've had to bust a couple out, and it ain't easy.

Yeah, if people think the small BVG holders are tough to crack, the larger ones are a whole new animal. Even after you get it out of the holder, the sleeve can be a PITA cuz its sealed and you must slowly cut the Supplement out w/an razor blade. They do a great job of protecting though if you plan on leaving them in the holder. I honestly think you could run over it with a car and be ok.

Originally Posted by drumback

Rob is the king of M101-2. If there are any you can't find, it's cause Rob has them all!

I don't know what u're talking about!

[honus94566]

About 6 months ago I was able to get the wagner on ebay for around $150, though with a chunk of paper loss at the bottom.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by drumback

I will actually pay more for a raw supplement than a graded one. I've had to bust a couple out, and it ain't easy.

Rob is the king of M101-2. If there are any you can't find, it's cause Rob has them all!

I recently completed this set, with much help from Rob. Thanks Rob. So he doesn't have them all anymore, just most.

For anyone trying to build the set, I wouldn't get too hung up on condition. I don't think one can live enough lifetimes to put one together in anything close mint to condition.

As to BMW's examples, +1. Those prices are stratospheric and insulting. Be patient and something reasonable will come along. I found the HOFers easier to acquire than some of the commons.