Lew Lipset auction is up and moving along

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Posted By: leon

As usual a nice selection of type cards and other neat stuff......good luck to whomever goes for the gold (where's that piggy bank again ?)

http://www.oldjudge.com/lewlipset/

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Posted By: pete

first timer for lipset's auction....dont take offense but i dont have to worry about these not being graded right? just curious on why they wouldnt be graded for an auction like this. is that the owner's choice or lipset's ?
pete-

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Message removed. See post further down.

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Posted By: Robert

I bought 3 lots in his last auction and was very dissappointed with the way he grades his cards. For example I bought a 1950 Bowman complete set which he listed 16 cards in good condition, 21 VG, 8 VG/EX, 78 EX and 98 EX/MT after paying and recieving them 32 cards had staple holes, 6 with paper loss, 28 with major creasing and 9 with writing. That according to my grading standards is 72 cards that should be classified as "GOOD". There was not even a single card that was in the EX/MT that he stated. The complete sets of 51 and 52 Bowmans where not any better, he stated that the 52 Mantle was NRMT/MT and it came back from GAI as a 6. I emailed and complained and basically got blown off by Lew. His best offer was he would relist the cards for no charge in his November auction. I would be very careful and if you intend on buying his cards go there in person to examine them becasue he does not.

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Posted By: hoytdunk

I bid in one of Lew's auctions four or five years ago. Two Ruth strip cards were ok, but barely in the condition stated.

The real problem I had was I began bidding in his auction from an advertisment in SCD and the number of cards in a 1951 Bowman lot was wrong. I bid based on the number of cards in SCD. When contacting Lew after receiving the cards, he stated his auction catalog was correct and that what he goes by, which I agree. The problem came in the fact that the lot was described (as best as my memory serves) exmint or better with many near mint cards. All minor stars & minor HOFers (Boudreau, Newcombe, etc) had writing in pencil and erased and virtually all nice eye appeal cards had many light surface creases. There wasn't a card sniffing near mint in thre lot, most vg/ex or less, very overgraded. He refunded and banned me from his auctions.

I would assume you are getting a mid to lower end of the grade stated.

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Posted By: Julie

in good-sized pictures. His brochure is quite small.

The most cards I ever got in one lot was 2, so I don't have trouble with the invisable cards in a multiple-card lot.

I got two of my Hoys from him, and a Zeenut Burns, and a beat-up but great A35 page (the 4-hHOFer one), and a bunch of other things. The one card I got from him I was dissatisfied with--it was a T207 Johnson which had dead white borders and no shellak--he allowed me to return (apparently, it had had a long bath!). He also allowed a bid retraction on a Scrapps, which, I discovered after bidding, was missing the part of his mustache which stuck out beyond the border of the card. Got a beautiful pair of undergraded (by a grading company) 1914 Cracker Jacks from him, too (Plank and Huggins)

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Posted By: Robert

Shortly after posting on this forum I got an email from Lew that I would like to share with everybody as well as my response.

On 3/29/05 11:56 AM, "Lew Lipset" <lew@oldjudge.com> wrote:

> ...... left out several material facts.
>
> you were away and ignored my emails
> you were offered the free listing only after it well after the deadline
> that several major dealer felt the Mantle was correctly graded
> and you padded your stats
>
> But thats what I would expect from you.
>
> But just to show you there's no hard feeling dont spend any time
> looking at my catalog. It would be a waste of time.
>
> One ebay dealer that you bought from said after buying several cards
> from him on ebay you tried to negotiate a lower price. That says so
> much (little) about your character.....
>
I have never won an auction and then tried to negotiate another price, that is completely false and untrue. And as for you I emailed you right away and you are the one who wanted to discuss the matter on the phone and not via email which I could not do at the time. I lost over $10,000 on the cards that I bought from you because you did not give proper grades on what you are selling. Which shows your character of being a thief and a liar who does not back up or guarantee the quality of their product. I don't care about getting your catalog or ever trying to buy the crap you peddle ever again. I will only deal with reputable auction houses and dealers and not slime like yourself....you #@*%.<br />

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I find it untoward to post private e-mail.

Sorry you had such an unpleasant experience.

I have had only good experiences with Mr. Lipset, and hope that continues.

Good luck with your collection.

Todd

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I have dealt with Lew on many occasions, and every time I have had a good transaction. Lew, IS one of the good guys in the hobby, and I know I have learned a lot from him. Robert, I am sorry you had a bad experience. But I would also be careful calling Lew slime, a cheat, a liar, or a thief. He is far from any of those things, I actually don't know of a more "reputable dealer", the guy wrote the book that nearly everyone in the vintage hobby references. Why don't you take Lew up on his offer of relisting the cards, he gets good prices, and I doubt you would really be out $10,000 if he relisted them.
-Rhett

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Posted By: pete

when i started this thread, i didnt think lew would get slammed so hard, i agree that "harsh" emails should be kept private, not to say you werent treated like crap. im just hoping that "IF" i decide to bid (now that i read these comments im not sure i will) that i were to get ungraded "authentic" cards and not some very good reprints...i respect everyone's opinion and i thank you for your input, hope to get more good or bad so i can make an educated decision.
pete-

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Posted By: Robert

I am sorry that I posted private emails but he is saying things about me that are untrue and fabricated. I am new to this community but a collector for more then 30 years and I do not want this guy to spread lies about me, I am 100% honest and have never backed out of a deal and try to renegotiate a price after an auction. If so then it would show on my feedback which is 100%. I spent $30,000 on the last 2 Lipset auctions and his grading was so bad that what I got from him would be lucky to be worth $20,000 I sent out over 200 cards to GAI and in every case it came back graded less then what he stated in the ads. A 50 Bowman he stated was EX/MT cam back a 3, I could go on and on but all I am saying is if you are going to buy some of his auctions that do not show the card go and see them for yourself because he is bumping up 2 or 3 grades. I brought up the results from GAI and he gave me some line about not trusting 3rd party grading companies. But being in here the past few months it seems that most everyone has no problems getting their cards graded. I just don't want anyone in this forum to get ripped off by Lew and to be very careful when bidding on his cards. i know that I am not allowed anymore in his auctions and I really don't care because there is no way I am going to let him rip me off again.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Lew Lipset has done more than virtually anyone in the hobby today to educate and inform. He runs a fair auction with quality material and is a bright spot in the hobby.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I have only purchased small lots from Lew, and only about six lots during the past 20 years; but in my experience he has been a consistantly fair dealer, an informative consultant and a resourceful generator of the special cards.

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Posted By: Robert

I am not bad mouthing about what he has done for the hobby and educating people, only on his grading of cards. And reading through some thread it appears that he sells mostly his own stuff so you can see how it benefits him by bumping the grades. And I would of let him relist the cards if they where in this auction not the November auction. I could not sit on that much inventory for that period of time.

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

If anyone purchases the Evening Sun supplements lot, I would be interested in purchasing the Chief Meyers' example.

In Lew's defense, many of my most cherished cards have come from Lew, when he had his Four Base Hits catalog. With one exception, his grading was always pretty decent. In addition, his reference books have been invaluable to me in building my collection.

Patrick

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Posted By: Paul

In response to Pete's original question, there is just about no chance at all that you will end up with a reprint in Lew's auctions. As someone else said, he wrote the book on vintage cards. He knows how to tell originals from fakes.

I won't enter the debate on his grading. I have never won a large lot of cards from him, which seems to be the primary source of concern. I have never had a problem with his grading of the few individual rarities that I have been fortunate enough to purchase from him.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

One of my oldest and dearest friends in the hobby and has always been very helpful to me here in adding material for the Almanac. And I think I've sold him exactly ONE lot in my life -- and bought one or 2 things from him. He has always wanted to add to the hobby knowledge.

Regards

Rich Klein
Beckett Media

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Posted By: pete

Paul, thats exactly what i was hoping for...i buy for my personal collection, not to re-sell later and make lots of money, if i overpay then so be it, i'll chaulk it up to "demand". i do believe after reading the comments that lew "is" an honest dealer and that i can expect good things. as for the larger lots, julie mentioned "invisible" cards...good point, i will not bid on them unless i can get better scans or see them in person...hard lesson to learn for some, but i always try to learn from other peoples mistakes....
pete-

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Posted By: Joe P.

Even the people here at Slab Haven can recognize that.

In ANY of his auctions, the question of character, or integrity never comes into play.

Some of the people on this forum would starve to death waiting to find an item that they could ask the ever life giving question of:
"Is this Real or Fake?"

Lew is as honest as they can get, and there are a few out there that have never reached his level.

If you want to question grading.
You don't want to go there.
We can start with the Rosen - SGC - K. Olbermann - Doyle Error = misunderstanding.

Let's get back to Lew Lipset's current auction.

I Don't Know About You Guy's, But I See Some Very Interesting Items There.

Joe Pelaez

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

if anyone wants to split the T-227's....I need the Baker and Marquard !......I dont need the farmers and penquins or wagontrains or whatever hell is left...but I guess i'd split them too !

Good Evening
-Dan

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Posted By: Andy Baran

I had a post earlier in this thread that I have since removed. Someone asked whether it was Lew's decision to have cards graded, or the consignors. I responded that in some instances, the cards in the auction were from Lew's personal collection. I did not mean this to be derogatory in any way (Lew had/has one of the finest collections in the hobby), nor did I intend for people to assume that I meant "most" cards in the auction were from Lew's inventory. I was just answering the question that in some instances Lew decides whether or not to get the cards graded, since they are his. I do not have any knowledge as to which/how many lots are from Lew's collection, nor is this information relevant to the conversation. I apologize for the misunderstanding and confusion.

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Posted By: Ted

I have made purchases from him and never had a problem with any aspect of the items. I made several bids today and I would just love it if some of you don't bid cause I will get his wonderful items for less.

This whole grading thing has me steaming. When I calm down I intend to start a new post about the grading issue, but want to make sure it is not associated with any other thread so folks don't think the comments are about a specific dealer or auction.

Ted
He who so shall, so shall he who!

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Posted By: Ed

Regarding lot #116 on the auction...

Just to save someone else the homework (if you didn't already know): the schedule on the back of the card is for the 1912 season (courtesy of baseball-almanac.com). I was hoping it was for 1905, then would have bid the house...

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Posted By: david

i am interested in going in on the diamond s and number 7 cigar lot. i would only like one of each as a type card but i would be able to kick in a good amount if anyone is interested in splitting the lot

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

I have purchased several items from Lew over the years and have been happy. His grading descriptions I understand since they were developed in the preslab era. The slabers grading system started by trying to place grading so you can distinguish between brand new fresh from the factory pack cards. So they start by assigning 4 of their 10 grades to near mint cards 7,8,9&10.
There is little substantive difference between these grades. At the bottom of their scale they have 1 which accomodiates ratty ass cards and also great looking cards that have a fatal flaw defect like a small pin hole. 2's & 3's are frequently nice looking cards that are down graded for defects like small surface wrinkles. That leaves 4,5,and 6 to distinguish the majority of older cards. When Lou describes a card as ex it is a nice looking card, but it may have some of the defects that the grading companies punish severely. So they might grade the card much lower. When you look at CJ's I feel that many of the 2's and 3's are great looking cards even some of the 1's.
The grading companies should have someone who looks at all low graded cards who can bump any great looking card to a 3 vg grade to get it away from the 1's with 10% of the card missing and 30 creases on the remaining 90% of the card.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Excellent point Peter!

Not everyone subscribes to the edicts of the slab companies.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Peter said "ratty ass"!

Can their be a BETTER term to describe some of these "beaters"?

From now on in my grading scale....

RAB's = RATTY ASS BEATERS

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I agree that the 8-9-10 thing has about as much objectivity as figure skating judging. However, I think the mid grades are and have always been pretty well defined in the hobby. An ex or better card better not have any creases. A vg card better be intact and without deep creases that split the cardboard to the point of removing image pieces.

I think in this era of scanners and high speed internet, if you don't ask for an image of the key cards in each group, you are asking for trouble. If the seller cannot or will not give them to you, pass on the lot.

As for this auction, I may be spending my Chicago money now...

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Posted By: Bob Marquette

I've got an E94 gold McGraw which is a PSA 1 and looks EX until you tilt it to the light and see a wrinkle horizontally. Corners are nice, great color and registry, clean back with no paper loss.
Not all RABs are created equal

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Posted By: John

I am looking at Lews auction and agree with Bresdo that he grades his cards higher then they auctually are, would'nt the grades go like this Fair, Good, Very good, Ex, Ex/Mt, Nearmint, Mint. LEW never uses the grade FAIR which is the lowest and in this link

Lot #146

the Young and Mathewson cards should get a FAIR grade and not a Good, I have noticed a lot of his cards. When you get them slabbed in makes a big difference. I believe I read somewhere that there is a 65% difference in dollars between grades. where as a card that is a 5 would be $1000 a 4 is $650 and goes down expotentially each grade. I am new here and just being cautious....

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Posted By: Anonymous

Some of the oldtimers still use the scheme in which creases are noted separately from the overall condition otherwise. These fellows sell on eBay with notations like EX (cr) or even NM (cr) and Mint (cr).

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

if it looks ex and there still is a crease ,it is vg or less and it has nuttin to do with oldtimers or whatever else excuse is used. Most want graded cards and several of them are trimmed and graded for the right people.

Cards at times are enter at your own risk, so buying from these individuals that grade 2 grades high that come from the Festberg grading schools , you should know how they are consistently and bid according to that.

Some people solely add their 2cents to remain pals with one another , but facts are facts and YOU CANT CHANGE THAT !!!!!

Im not going to pick on Lew , but if you dont like his grading or price ....DONT BID OR BUY THE CARD !!

I guess we all are expert graders.

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Posted By: Glen V

I've bought a number of items from Lew Lipset, both from his auctions and from Ebay. He has a fantastic knowledge of cards, and he's been collecting cards for longer than I've been alive (and probably plenty of you too).

People have been grading cards for decades before some coin grading company decided to tell card collectors how to grade. Maybe the grading companies under-grade everything. Anyone have any EX cards they got in the 60-70's? Any chance they would get a PSA 6?

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Anyone thinking about bidding on lot #151...10 m116s including rare late series types and blue backgrounds? If anyone's interested, shoot me an Email as I'd have an interest in teaming up for the lot.

Regards all....

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Posted By: robert a

Glen.
Great points. It almost seems silly to most collectors to think that the all-powerful grading companies have provided a new grading system that wasn't around when most of the big dealers and hobby mainstays began, but that's exactly what happened. Unfortunately, it can get confusing now that some of the dealers "deal" graded cards as well and cards with their own grades.
Good luck with Lew's auction everyone.
robert a

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Posted By: JimB

This is not meant to be a criticism of Lew in any way as in my experience this criticism does not apply to him. I have won lots in his auctions in the past and been very happy. But I need to say that I don't buy the argument that this or that was the way the old school people graded. Maybe it was, but times change and grading standards change. Dealers need to keep up with the times. They don't put up signs saying, "I am old school and therefore I am overgrading two grades by today's standards." Or "I am calling it ex, but if you submit it to a grading company, it will come back vg." When an auction has both graded and raw cards, I would think that the potential buyer should be able to safely assume that the grading standards are roughly equivalent. This is not to say one should be garunteed of a grading company's opinion, but if the dealer has a PSA 4 T206 and a raw T206 they describe as vg/ex, that the two should be pretty close in condition. Just my .02.
JimB

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Posted By: Brian Daniels

I offered you? Go look at SGC's pop! They just graded it for me!

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Posted By: JimB

Could not successfully sign in. Did you get an 84?
Jim