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  #1  
Old 05-09-2017, 01:10 PM
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Default Most overlooked active player?

Because the relative newness of Closers in the game I think Craig Kimbrel may be the most overlooked active players.

With talk about Trevor Hoffman going into the HOF soon after a 74% this last voting cycle and Mariano Rivera considered a sure thing it is interesting that possible future HOF Kimbrel gets little notice. I understand he only is in his 8th season, but his stats are impressive.

He already has 266 saves. He averages 42 saves per season. His SV:SVO is .911. His batting average against is .156 (not a single season over .185) with a 0.93 WHIP. Compare that to the the future "HOF".

Rivera
652 saves over 18 seasons (excluding first season when used as starter)
39 save 162 game avg
SV:SVO .891
BAA .211
WHIP 1.00

Hoffman
601 saves over 18 seasons
39 save 162 game avg
SV:SVO .888
BAA .211
WHIP 1.06

Even if Kimbrel's saves average goes down to match the 39 saves of Rivera and Hoffman and plays another 10 years he would still retire 4 years earlier than Rivera with more saves. Obviously, as is with any active player, anything can happen to derail the career, but as of now he may be better than the top 2 HOF candidates.
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Last edited by bn2cardz; 05-11-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:37 PM
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I'll nominate Chase Utley. He was an excellent defender, with strong on-base skills, and more power than you expect from a second baseman. He doesn't really have a shot at the hall of fame, but that says more about the hall's election process than it does about Utley. They're good at recognizing players with a strong defining characteristic (think Ryan and strikeouts) but bad at recognizing players who are all-around contributors without some particular thing that really stands out.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:56 PM
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I'm going with Robinson Cano. Name another second baseman who has the offensive punch he does. Name another second baseman with the arm he has. I watched the guy play second every day for the Yankees for years. He is incredible out there.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat View Post
I'll nominate Chase Utley. He was an excellent defender, with strong on-base skills, and more power than you expect from a second baseman. He doesn't really have a shot at the hall of fame, but that says more about the hall's election process than it does about Utley. They're good at recognizing players with a strong defining characteristic (think Ryan and strikeouts) but bad at recognizing players who are all-around contributors without some particular thing that really stands out.
Good candidate. I think going against him, also, is playing at the same time as Cano. Utley has the better defensive numbers, but offense is weighted higher. I believe Utley is very comparable to Lou Whitaker, if Lou can't make it in then Utley won't either.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:18 PM
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Just wondering why you think Utley is a better defender than Cano? I've seen Cano make throws that no one else could make. He's got a third basemen's arm at second. He also has Gold Gloves whereas Utley does not.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:31 PM
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Just wondering why you think Utley is a better defender than Cano? I've seen Cano make throws that no one else could make. He's got a third basemen's arm at second. He also has Gold Gloves whereas Utley does not.
If you notice I said defensive numbers, but I admittedly was stating that exclusively off of dWAR. The more I look through the raw numbers, though, I do see that I am confused by Utley having the higher dWAR as in less seasons Cano has more assists, PO, and double plays turned. I am in an NL baseball area (St. Louis) and therefor admittedly have seen very little of Cano and can't speak to his play from experience.

I have heard more about Cano and still would stick by my thinking that Utley is in his shadow and will have the same fate as Lou Whitaker because of it.
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Last edited by bn2cardz; 05-09-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:08 PM
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Defensive WAR is such a scam stat. Don Mattingly is listed as a below Replacement level fielder by that statistic.

According to that statistic, Jason Giambi fumbling the ball all over the infield has nearly the same value as Don Mattingly scooping 4 balls out of the dirt per game, starting double plays from the 1st base position and making it seem routine, and leading the league at his position in Range Factor and Fielding % for the better part of his career.

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Old 05-09-2017, 04:47 PM
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I'm going with Paul goldschimdt he's all around great player but I guess being a diamond Back he gets no love. If he was a Yankee or redsox his card would be untouchable.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:44 PM
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Goldschmidt is a good one!

I'd like to also nominate Christian Yelich. Stanton gets all the attention in Miami but I'd take Yelich over him any day of the week.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:11 PM
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I still had guys arguing with me as late as 2015 that Adrian Beltre wasn't a Hall of Famer.
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