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  #11  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:10 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I know it's anecdotal but it seems I have seen innumerable games where the starter is on cruise control, gets yanked because of the pitch count, and the pen immediately gets shelled. Now I guess the comeback to that is yeah but the starter isn't nearly as effective past a point and might have been shelled anyhow.
You can just look at the long sample size of what a lineup does against the same pitcher in a given game on their 2nd 3rd and 4th time up and you will see a long term trend of batting average going up and up.

Heck its usually pretty hard for a pitcher to face the same lineup in back to back starts
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:14 AM
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You can just look at the long sample size of what a lineup does against the same pitcher in a given game on their 2nd 3rd and 4th time up and you will see a long term trend of batting average going up and up.

Heck its usually pretty hard for a pitcher to face the same lineup in back to back starts
Perhaps, but isn't that offset by the fact that your starters are better pitchers than your relievers, for the most part? There's a reason, presumably, you want more innings out of those top 4 guys than the rest of the staff.
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:40 AM
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Farrell is nowhere near the class of Billy Martin was in the early 80s in regards to the disregard of pitch counts. Now it becomes more apparent why teams have improved bull-pens as many batters work to stretch counts during each plate appearance.

I read this article a few years ago about Martin:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul...chers-20110719
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:00 AM
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Farrell is nowhere near the class of Billy Martin was in the early 80s in regards to the disregard of pitch counts. Now it becomes more apparent why teams have improved bull-pens as many batters work to stretch counts during each plate appearance.

I read this article a few years ago about Martin:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul...chers-20110719
The repeated fouling off of pitches can create some drama in a really intense matchup (in late innings of a playoff game for example), but otherwise is IMO a significant part of why games go on too long.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:28 AM
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The repeated fouling off of pitches can create some drama in a really intense matchup (in late innings of a playoff game for example), but otherwise is IMO a significant part of why games go on too long.
Not to mention the dilution of the game-used ball market.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Must your foul sense of humor pervade every thread?
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:04 PM
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Must your foul sense of humor pervade every thread?
Less than 40% of your pervasiveness.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:06 PM
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Perhaps, but isn't that offset by the fact that your starters are better pitchers than your relievers, for the most part? There's a reason, presumably, you want more innings out of those top 4 guys than the rest of the staff.
this is starting to be not true! so many relievers have become specialized on doing one thing (get leftys out for example) that it is probably easier to win if you threw 4 relievers at a lineup every game.

much less fun to watch tho
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:28 PM
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this is starting to be not true! so many relievers have become specialized on doing one thing (get leftys out for example) that it is probably easier to win if you threw 4 relievers at a lineup every game.

much less fun to watch tho
I am sure you are right. I liked watching games, though, much more when the presumption was that your starter was going as deep as he could, when there weren't long delays between every pitch, when batters weren't intentionally trying to jack the pitch count, when there weren't 10 pitching changes a game, etc. Without looking it up I am guessing games are a half hour longer than they were in the 70s on average, if not longer.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:37 PM
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I am sure you are right. I liked watching games, though, much more when the presumption was that your starter was going as deep as he could, when there weren't long delays between every pitch, when batters weren't intentionally trying to jack the pitch count, when there weren't 10 pitching changes a game, etc.
Amen, brother.

Perhaps they could just keep playing during the commercial breaks and then just show the actual pitches after the ad, like they do in golf. A pitcher walking around the mound, a batter adjusting his batting glove after every pitch and a golfer walking 200 yards between shots are all equally exciting, almost as exciting as 8 hours of coverage for the two minute Kentucky Derby.
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