Rare Shoeless Joe Jackson autograph

[milkit1]

Theonly thing I find suspicious is having two different teams from two different leagues signed on these photos.. I assume the photographer would have had to get the photos developed and then come back and have them signed so even the two teams playing an exhibition game seems unlikely?

[Runscott]

Sean, I was wondering the same thing. First thought was that a lot of these players never made the team (Giants or Indians), so he would had to have gotten the prints made quickly, just to find the players again to sign. Maybe he took them at the beginning of spring training (March), was covering just these two teams, and got them developed over a few days. He would have kept a negative logbook of some sort, so if they were still around after the prints were developed, it shouldn't have been a problem.

Whoever was asking about print dating - read the earlier posts.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by milkit1

Theonly thing I find suspicious is having two different teams from two different leagues signed on these photos.. I assume the photographer would have had to get the photos developed and then come back and have them signed so even the two teams playing an exhibition game seems unlikely?

New York had teams in both leagues - it would be easy to take pics of the Giants at the Polo Grounds, then get some shots of the team visiting the Highlanders...

But then where would the connection to the Cleveland barn come from?

What strikes me as odd are the following two quotes that don't seem to fit together:

"The family offered to sell the scrapbook five years ago to Bowen's husband because they knew how much he treasured the 60 photos. The price tag: $15,000."

"A collector all his life, he appreciated its history and connection to his hometown. Not knowing the book's sky-high value, they never locked it up or worried about keeping it out of sight. "It wasn't an investment," she said."

So, I ask myself, who pays $15,000 for 60 pictures without doing a little research? For that matter, who SELLS 60 pictures for $15k without doing research? And how is that expenditure not an investment? Also, how does a guy who's been "a collector all his life" not know Joe Jackson signatures are quite rare and valuable?

It just sounds odd. I'm not an autograph guy, but should the two "J"s be so different, with the second being so wide? and the "s" on his last name looks more well-formed than images I've seen of his signature. But I don't know anything about that, it's the story I don't quite buy.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Mark17

New York had teams in both leagues - it would be easy to take pics of the Giants at the Polo Grounds, then get some shots of the team visiting the Highlanders...

But then where would the connection to the Cleveland barn come from?

It was Spring Training - March. The teams might have been right next to each other. I'm sure someone around here can find out where the two teams had spring training in 1911.

The 'discovery' part of the story sounds like hogwash.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It was Spring Training - March. The teams might have been right next to each other. I'm sure someone around here can find out where the two teams had spring training in 1911.

The 'discovery' part of the story sounds like hogwash.

Doesn't the inscription say: Alexandria, May 1911?

In any case, the photos could've been taken in spring training, or in some town (Like Alexandria, VA) as the teams were working their way north to start the season, later developed, and then the sigs could've been obtained as I mentioned - sometime when Cleveland and the Giants were both in NY, hence the May inscription.

I'm sure the Giants spring training facility is mentioned in The Glory of Their Times, maybe with regards to the stories about Charles "Victory" Faust joining the team down there.

[Mark17]

The Heritage description for the other photos in the collection says:

"The majority of the photographs were snapped at Cleveland's 1911 spring training grounds of Alexandria, Louisiana.."

[milkit1]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Doesn't the inscription say: Alexandria, May 1911?

In any case, the photos could've been taken in spring training, or in some town (Like Alexandria, VA) as the teams were working their way north to start the season, later developed, and then the sigs could've been obtained as I mentioned - sometime when Cleveland and the Giants were both in NY, hence the May inscription.

I'm sure the Giants spring training facility is mentioned in The Glory of Their Times, maybe with regards to the stories about Charles "Victory" Faust joining the team down there.

Very good point regarding them possibly playing together in the same location during spring training

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by milkit1

Very good point regarding them possibly playing together in the same location during spring training

I think I was wrong about that. In The Glory of Their Times, Fred Snodgrass says, after McGraw offered him a contract for the 1908 season:

"Well, as you can well imagine, I was on that train four days later, going to marlin Texas...The Giants had bought a piece of property in marlin, Texas, a town of about 4,000 or 5,000 people, and had constructed a bal, park there for spring-training purposes...We trained there every spring I was with the Giants, which was until 1915..."

Unfortunately for the theory, marlin is about 300 miles due west of Alexandria, LA.

[milkit1]

well that doesnt seem too far in the grand scheme of things. Its certainly possible if they were training in the same state that they would have played and then the autographs retrieved later

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Doesn't the inscription say: Alexandria, May 1911?

In any case, the photos could've been taken in spring training, or in some town (Like Alexandria, VA) as the teams were working their way north to start the season, later developed, and then the sigs could've been obtained as I mentioned - sometime when Cleveland and the Giants were both in NY, hence the May inscription.

I'm sure the Giants spring training facility is mentioned in The Glory of Their Times, maybe with regards to the stories about Charles "Victory" Faust joining the team down there.

The Giants trained in Marlin, TX didn't they?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

The Giants trained in Marlin, TX didn't they?

Yes, I mentioned that in Post #50 in this thread:

...In The Glory of Their Times, Fred Snodgrass says, after McGraw offered him a contract for the 1908 season:

"Well, as you can well imagine, I was on that train four days later, going to marlin Texas...The Giants had bought a piece of property in Marlin, Texas, a town of about 4,000 or 5,000 people, and had constructed a bal, park there for spring-training purposes...We trained there every spring I was with the Giants, which was until 1915..."

[btcarfagno]

The Giants photos were taken in late September or early October of that year...at least that is what the player selection tells me.

Tom C