Beware of fakes with MLB & other holograms!

[mcgwirecom]

I was perusing McGwire autographs on Ebay and came across this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mark-McGwire...item27d4c585ae

As a McGwire collector and authenticator I saw the autograph did not look authentic, however the item has an MLB hologram. I looked up the number and sure enough it says it was a team USA McGwire signed jersey. So now I am really worried because I really haven't seen bogus MLB stuff. The seller is in Taiwan ( a big maker of counterfeit jerseys) and has other big named signed jerseys with holograms. One is a Hank Aaron signed jersey with a Goldin hologram. I contacted Ken and he confirmed that it looked like his hologram but that Hank never signed that type of jersey for him. So I figured I'd give a heads up. This guy is selling high end names with all different holograms (including UDA) and I am very dubious about their authenticity. Not sure if they are fake holograms or taken from legit items. Other opinions??

[Lordstan]

Randall,
I agree with you.
I think a lot of his stuff looks off.
Don't like the Mantle Jersey or Dimaggio ball.
The Musial ball looks OK, but the Terry ball, i'm not sure of.
Many of the newer guys, i'm not familiar with, like Jeter, Pujols, so I'll let others comment.

[thecatspajamas]

I may be missing something, but wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to pull a hologram sticker (ANY hologram sticker) off of a legit jersey and apply it to a fake? I just don't see how a sticker on a piece of cloth provides any security at all, and seems to me like it invites fraud more than preventing it. My son sticks all kinds of stickers to his clothes, and I've never once had any problem pulling them right off. Is there something that I'm overlooking?

Randall, I don't mean that to be a commentary on your finding at all (keep up the good work). Sorry for slightly diverting your thread.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I may be missing something, but wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to pull a hologram sticker (ANY hologram sticker) off of a legit jersey and apply it to a fake? I just don't see how a sticker on a piece of cloth provides any security at all, and seems to me like it invites fraud more than preventing it. My son sticks all kinds of stickers to his clothes, and I've never once had any problem pulling them right off. Is there something that I'm overlooking?

Lance,
I think you are right about this. Stickers on jerseys would seem to be much more easily tampered with.
Mark

[shelly]

Dimaggio ball is certed by the famous donald. The mantle jersey is probably real. Hard to judge when it bleed so bad.

[drcy]

A lot of security stickers and holograms are designed to be tamper evident. They're specially die cut so if you try and remove one, part of it is still stuck on the item. The hologram is unreusable if it's removed. I don't know how the MLB holograms are designed that way. I have heard of a hologram or two falling off of jerseys.

[Big Dave]

The Mantle autograph is horrible, and I have never seen the additional "Mickey Mantle 1951" on the tail of any of the UDA 536 jerseys.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

Dimaggio ball is certed by the famous donald. The mantle jersey is probably real. Hard to judge when it bleed so bad.

That DiMaggio signed ball is almost laughable. Geez.

[johnmh71]

If you choose to buy to stuff like that from someone with 179 feedbacks, you are getting exactly what you are asking for - A nice fake.

[yanksfan09]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derek-Jeter-...item27d4c63658

The Jeter looks really shaky and slowly written.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

If you choose to buy to stuff like that from someone with 179 feedbacks, you are getting exactly what you are asking for - A nice fake.

I disagree, what does feedback have to do with it. If they only had 5 than yes, but 179 isn't bad. I only have 200 something, so based on your statement if I sell a high priced item it must be fake than?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I disagree, what does feedback have to do with it. If they only had 5 than yes, but 179 isn't bad. I only have 200 something, so based on your statement if I sell a high priced item it must be fake than?

I agree with Brock.

You can't always judge a seller's items by their feedback. A feedback of 179 isn't that low.

The one thing to be wary of from a seller with low feedback, is if they are using borrowed photographs.

Judge them from their items.

[dapro]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

If you choose to buy to stuff like that from someone with 179 feedbacks, you are getting exactly what you are asking for - A nice fake.

I disagreed too. I only have 50+ feedback currently. If I decide to sell off some of my legit items, it will be consider fake? It is kind of unfair...

[drcy]

179 is fine for feedback, though you also have to consider how much of it is from selling. Of course, you'd prefer 10,000.

I call low when the feedback is 0 or 1 and he's selling a $10,000 item. What is being sold is relevant.

I should note that I've bought and sold from Taiwan, Hong Kong and China and have had no issues, so we shouldn't impugn an continent (to take a line from Seinfeld).

Though I admit I'm probably not about to buy a Mickey Mantle signed jersey from China on eBay. The last thing I bought from China on eBay was a scientific instrument for work.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

The Mantle autograph is horrible, and I have never seen the additional "Mickey Mantle 1951" on the tail of any of the UDA 536 jerseys.

I did not love signituer but the additon to the jersey gets it my

[mcgwirecom]

Seems the consensus is the seller is not reputable. I'm not 100% sure about the different holograms but I always thought they would crumble if you tried to remove it.

I have seen fake MLB holograms before. When you buy an MLB jersey they come with a hologram. I know people who have bought those knockoff jerseys from Asia and sure enough there was an MLB hologram on them, but I think they never bothered to change any numbers as they all had the same number.

[JimStinson]

Why would you want to buy Autographs from a seller in Taiwan when you can get better deals with a Nigerian dealer ?...
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

web site
stinsonsports.com

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by drcy

179 is fine for feedback, though you also have to consider how much of it is from selling. Of course, you'd prefer 10,000.

I call low when the feedback is 0 or 1 and he's selling a $10,000 item. What is being sold is relevant.

I should note that I've bought and sold from Taiwan, Hong Kong and China and have had no issues, so we shouldn't impugn an continent (to take a line from Seinfeld).

Though I admit I'm probably not about to buy a Mickey Mantle signed jersey from China on eBay. The last thing I bought from China on eBay was a scientific instrument for work.

Ok...then show me someone with 10,000 feedbacks that is selling this type of crap if it is in fact not relevent. Feedback is relevent because it can be a form of vetting process for people buying on the site.

I'm not saying that feedback is some form of guarantee, but members are constantly posting examples on here of sellers selling fakes with low feedback numbers. Seems like more than a coincidence. What do I consider low? Less than 500 feedbacks.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Why would you want to buy Autographs from a seller in Taiwan when you can get better deals with a Nigerian dealer ?...
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

web site
stinsonsports.com

Awesome!! Jim, you're a funny guy!

[perezfan]

The Ichiro and Aaron are horrible as well. And this trash should simply be removed (Frangipani LOA and all...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Joe-DiMaggio...#ht_308wt_1178

[mr2686]

...and I'm pretty darn sure that the Bill Terry ball is bad.

[kengoldin]

just sent
I have recently been afforded the opportunity to communicate directly with EBAY fraud department.

This is what I just sent them

"RE:: a real criminal seller alert

Dear xxxx



Please note the Goldin hologram on the Aaron jersey was peeled off another jersey and placed on it
the RIpken hologram on the Ripken jersey was peeled off a different ripken item and placed on that jersey.

I know this as a fact as the Ripken hologram was maintained by Goldin Sports inc and those jerseys were never ordered or signed while Ripken was under contract with Goldin. Ripken was under contract with Goldin from 98-2001, so there was no need to get Mitchell and Ness jerseys, he was still an active player and no Mitchell and Ness jersey was ever ordered for signing by Goldin Sports inc.

as far as the Aaron jersey, that jersey was never signed as part of Aaron's contract with Goldin Sports inc. Aaron was under contract with Goldin Sports inc in 1999 for his 25th anniversary of his 715th homerun and the only jersey signed was a 1974 style one, NOT the one in the picture.
From a look at his other items, it appears to me as if the seller has found a way to steam off holograms as I see UDA and MLB holograms that do not match the item, as well as "stan the man'hologram on a forged jersey, and it appears to me as 100% of his merchandise is forged. I would suggest you ban this seller and take whatever legal actions are necessary.

If you have any questions, please email me here or contact my office at 856-767-8550

regards
Ken Goldin
note all links are below
http://www.ebay.com/sch/yankeesarod1...&_trksid=p3686

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cal-Ripken-J...item27d4c56e73

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hank-Aaron-a...item27d4c53482

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stan-Musial-...item27d4c58de6

"

thanks to the OP for emailing me about this seller.

thanks to the net 54 member who can identify himself if he so chooses, who put me in touch with fraud dept or ebay
ken@goldinauctions.com

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

just sent
I have recently been afforded the opportunity to communicate directly with EBAY fraud department.

This is what I just sent them

"RE:: a real criminal seller alert

Dear xxxx



Please note the Goldin hologram on the Aaron jersey was peeled off another jersey and placed on it
the RIpken hologram on the Ripken jersey was peeled off a different ripken item and placed on that jersey.

I know this as a fact as the Ripken hologram was maintained by Goldin Sports inc and those jerseys were never ordered or signed while Ripken was under contract with Goldin. Ripken was under contract with Goldin from 98-2001, so there was no need to get Mitchell and Ness jerseys, he was still an active player and no Mitchell and Ness jersey was ever ordered for signing by Goldin Sports inc.

as far as the Aaron jersey, that jersey was never signed as part of Aaron's contract with Goldin Sports inc. Aaron was under contract with Goldin Sports inc in 1999 for his 25th anniversary of his 715th homerun and the only jersey signed was a 1974 style one, NOT the one in the picture.
From a look at his other items, it appears to me as if the seller has found a way to steam off holograms as I see UDA and MLB holograms that do not match the item, as well as "stan the man'hologram on a forged jersey, and it appears to me as 100% of his merchandise is forged. I would suggest you ban this seller and take whatever legal actions are necessary.

If you have any questions, please email me here or contact my office at 856-767-8550

regards
Ken Goldin
note all links are below
http://www.ebay.com/sch/yankeesarod1...&_trksid=p3686

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cal-Ripken-J...item27d4c56e73

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hank-Aaron-a...item27d4c53482

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stan-Musial-...item27d4c58de6

"

thanks to the OP for emailing me about this seller.

thanks to the net 54 member who can identify himself if he so chooses, who put me in touch with fraud dept or ebay
ken@goldinauctions.com

Ken, I think the word is getting out among Ebay scammers that Ebay isn't doing much to remove fraudulent items listed on Ebay.

It has been extremely frustrating watching these scammers list their forgeries day after day with nothing being done.

Forgeries listed with "Banned COAs" aren't being removed these days.

Ebay deserves all of the criticism thrown their way.

For a couple years Ebay was doing a fantastic job removing forgeries, and then it just stopped.

Very frustrating!!!

[CollectiblesNJ]

I buy/sell on ebay everyday and I will tell you one thing... I am not ordering anything from Asia on ebay that has attached speculative value.
No purses, no collectibles, no brand name electronics. Nothing that can be faked. There is no reason to do it at all. Its crazy!

The amount of time it takes for your items to arrive is long enough for them to close their accounts and withdraw your funds. E-bay closes one account they fire up their new proxy and make a new one. They probably have 1000s of cooperating accounts so FB score is irrelevant.

This alone should be prohibitive to buying anything like this from China or Taiwan. Its like the wild west out there with regards to internet crime. I would bet thats how a lot of people there make a living.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by Buyerz_Paradise

I buy/sell on ebay everyday and I will tell you one thing... I am not ordering anything from Asia on ebay that has attached speculative value.
No purses, no collectibles, no brand name electronics. Nothing that can be faked. There is no reason to do it at all. Its crazy!

The amount of time it takes for your items to arrive is long enough for them to close their accounts and withdraw your funds. E-bay closes one account they fire up their new proxy and make a new one. They probably have 1000s of cooperating accounts so FB score is irrelevant.

This alone should be prohibitive to buying anything like this from China or Taiwan. Its like the wild west out there with regards to internet crime. I would bet thats how a lot of people there make a living.

Belly In tell est ing ............................
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[kengoldin]

I have emailed this individual on two occassions in past two weeks( before this) and items were pulled and seller was banned pretty quickly
Lets hope this. Pattern continues

[perezfan]

I don't have time to look at them all... but you can clearly see on the Aaron Hologram, where it is horizontally creased towards the top. Pretty obvious that it was bent there, in the act of peeling it off the original item.

I guess some holograms are easier to peel/transfer than others... but this one is a definite red flag. What a crook...

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Ken, I think the word is getting out among Ebay scammers that Ebay isn't doing much to remove fraudulent items listed on Ebay.

It has been extremely frustrating watching these scammers list their forgeries day after day with nothing being done.

Forgeries listed with "Banned COAs" aren't being removed these days.

Ebay deserves all of the criticism thrown their way.

For a couple years Ebay was doing a fantastic job removing forgeries, and then it just stopped.

Very frustrating!!!

Chris,
Frustrating...Yes!
A surprise...No!
I don't think it's really hard to figure out why either.

Over the past several years, ebay has made the site less and less seller friendly. Higher fees, fees on shipping, no buyer negative feedback, and the list goes on and on. I know a lot of people have stopped selling on ebay because of this. It has dramatically affected many, from the collector, who buys and sells to fund their habit, up to probably the mid size dealer. It's kind of sad as I probably would've spent more on ebay, if I had kept selling there. So they lost my FVFs as well as the fees from the person I would've spent the money with. I'm sure this scenario is the same for a lot of the people on here.

The only sellers that seem to have benefited from the sum of the changes are the large volume fixed price sellers. Less stuff being available through auctions is good for the fixed price guys. So more stuff gets listed and less stuff gets sold. Cases in point would be all the museums of cards on now with fixed prices at multiples of VCP.

Why would they want to get rid of the fakes? A lot of the real stuff is listed with insanely high fixed prices, and never sells. The fake stuff may sell more cheaply, but at least it keeps the cash flow going. It seems they would have very little motivation to be as diligent now as they had been previously.

This made me think...I wonder if anyone has considered using ebay to house the pictures of their collection online. They can close their photobucket/Flickr/etc account and list all of the stuff in their collection on ebay with insane prices. They'll keep relisting without any fees forever. Hey, if someone wants to pay me $10k for a picture of Lou Gehrig walking with his wife, that is perfectly fine. I'll happily pay the 10% FVF and use the remaining $9K to buy a Conlon.

I know I am preaching to the choir, but it is frustrating watch this happen. I was really hopeful that GSB would've taken off and provided an alternative site for the hobby, that would've had oversight by people who actually cared about the hobby. Damn!
Mark

[kengoldin]

To update this thread
I received a response from eBay. They thanked me for the information and have removed ALL the listings
Ken@goldinauctions.com

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

To update this thread
I received a response from eBay. They thanked me for the information and have removed ALL the listings
Ken@goldinauctions.com

Good work Ken, and thanks for being proactive.

[shelly]

Should have taken them off as a dealer as well. Give it a week and they will be back up.

[r2678]

When eBay takes this type of action, does anyone know if they contact past buyers to worn them they may have purchased a bogus item?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by r2678

When eBay takes this type of action, does anyone know if they contact past buyers to worn them they may have purchased a bogus item?

I believe they send out a boilerplate notification to the buyers of the items removed, which may or may not happen before money has actually changed hands (depending on the timing of the removal). To my knowledge though, they only contact the buyers of the specific items which were removed, not every customer the seller has ever dealt with.

[r2678]

Thanks.

[kengoldin]

You guys keep emailing me, and I will do my best to have the item and the seller removed.
not tonight though, I am a little busy with the auction close.