Roy Campenlla Thoughts

[MacDice]

Back in the late 1980's, Campanella started using a machine that allowed him to "sign" his name. Curious as to what people thought of those signatures? I have had some people tell me that they don't look at that version of his signature as "authentic" because of the machine and look at them as a semi auto pen signature. Curious as to what others think?

[GrayGhost]

That is how I feel. If you are looking for a Campy, save your money and buy a pre accident

[tazdmb]

Good question, I have considered the post-accident autographs "authentic" but I can see where you could see both points of view. I know that PSA/DNA has an autograph rarity scale and they list Campanella at an 8 (with the likes of Cobb, Comiskey and Stearnes), with 10 being the rarest. So it seems they treat his post-accident signature as a type of autopen.

IMHO-Even post accident, each signature he made with the device was unique and he had played some part, both mentally and physically, in each signature that was signed, so I count it.

Just my 2 cents.

[whyconform]

Taz do you have a link or the source to this "rarity scale"?

[Klrdds]

I agree that it is best to save your money and get a pre-accident autograph , besides his pre-accident signature I believe is very attractive and displays nicely.

[Klrdds]

Here is the link to that set registry PSA site http://www.psacard.com/dnasetregistr...tion.aspx?c=37

[daves_resale_shop]

If anyone is looking for one, please message me... My 1948 ap may be available for cash or trade.

Cheers!
Dave

[pooh528]

I am guessing that PSA is referring to his pre-accident signature, but at the same time I know psa has no issue authenticating those late 1980s signatures. There are dozens on ebay

[MacDice]

As a set collector, I would prefer a vintage signature but would take whatever I could get and a post-accident signature would probably be closer to my budget. I had a card sent into a show to get signed but he passed away before it could be done.

[Teamgluck]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Here is the link to that set registry PSA site http://www.psacard.com/dnasetregistr...tion.aspx?c=37

That set has a bonus 1 next to Addie Joss. If that means that that personal collector has a Addie Joss auto I would really like to see it and have never seen one before.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Teamgluck

That set has a bonus 1 next to Addie Joss. If that means that that personal collector has a Addie Joss auto I would really like to see it and have never seen one before.

I'm pretty certain that the Joss signed postcard was the one that was posted on net54 2-3 years ago. It was a postcard that was sent by Joss to his young son back at home in Toledo. If I recall right, it did not have Joss's full signature, but he wrote Joss when addressing the postcard to his son.

I saved the picture and printed it out as an exemplar. Sorry for the glare, but here it is. The address, postmark both support its credibility, IMHO.
This was sold in a major auction for big $$.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by MacDice

I had a card sent into a show to get signed but he passed away before it could be done.

Sadly, as an IP collector back then, I remember planning to go to that show in LA, it was going to be a rare public signing for him (flats only, of course!), but he passed shortly before the event.

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

I'm pretty certain that the Joss signed postcard was the one that was posted on net54 2-3 years ago. It was a postcard that was sent by Joss to his young son back at home in Toledo. If I recall right, it did not have Joss's full signature, but he wrote Joss when addressing the postcard to his son.

To quote Yoda "No, there is another". I will let the owner decide if he wants to display it as we (as board members) are fortunate that he contributes to the boards.

[Klrdds]

Here is my Addie Joss. It is deemed as the only verifiable full name signature of him in existence, and is the exemplar used in Ron K's book.
I have heard that there are a total of 2 Joss's that are considered authentic.
1. The postcard listed above with the last name only, and
2. My full name example shown here.
I have heard of possibly another Joss signature out there but I have never seen it in over 40 years of collecting (I started collecting when I was 9 years old for the record).So I do not know if a 3rd is out there or not.
The red numbers are only "weighting" bonus points given for having those signatures in your collection, because those signatures are so rare that the population number of those signatures is unknown a true weight can't be given only assumed and therefore they are given an arbitrary weight of 1. They are not indicators of the population number known for those players autographs only "extra credit " for having them.

[tazdmb]

I always love the opportunity of seeing peeks of your collection, simply incredible!

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Here is my Addie Joss. It is deemed as the only verifiable full name signature of him in existence, and is the exemplar used in Ron K's book.
I have heard that there are a total of 2 Joss's that are considered authentic.
1. The postcard listed above with the last name only, and
2. My full name example shown here.
I have heard of possibly another Joss signature out there but I have never seen it in over 40 years of collecting (I started collecting when I was 9 years old for the record).So I do not know if a 3rd is out there or not.
The red numbers are only "weighting" bonus points given for having those signatures in your collection, because those signatures are so rare that the population number of those signatures is unknown a true weight can't be given only assumed and therefore they are given an arbitrary weight of 1. They are not indicators of the population number known for those players autographs only "extra credit " for having them.

Amazing piece!!! Very nice of you to share.

Thank you!

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Amazing piece!!! Very nice of you to share.

Thank you!

This ^^^^^^^^^

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Here is my Addie Joss. It is deemed as the only verifiable full name signature of him in existence, and is the exemplar used in Ron K's book.
I have heard that there are a total of 2 Joss's that are considered authentic.
1. The postcard listed above with the last name only, and
2. My full name example shown here.
I have heard of possibly another Joss signature out there but I have never seen it in over 40 years of collecting (I started collecting when I was 9 years old for the record).So I do not know if a 3rd is out there or not.
The red numbers are only "weighting" bonus points given for having those signatures in your collection, because those signatures are so rare that the population number of those signatures is unknown a true weight can't be given only assumed and therefore they are given an arbitrary weight of 1. They are not indicators of the population number known for those players autographs only "extra credit " for having them.

Kevin,
Truly amazing! I do recall you sharing this piece because I saved the image for my records, but incorrectly assumed it was a cut, not postcard. What is on the verso if you don't mind sharing?
Thanks!

[Teamgluck]

Wow thats incredible! Thanks so much for sharing. Do you have any other "Virtually Impossable's in your collection?

[Klrdds]

Scott and to all who responded ,
Thank you for your compliments.
This piece came from Napoleon Lajoie's child's autograph album. This was in an auction in 1995-1997 I believe . I can check my records for the exact date.
There were a dozen or so autographs in the album and I went in partners with another collector to split the album.
I got several sigs including a William Hulbert also , and he got a Hank O'Day among others as his prize signature as part of our deal.
This is a cut from a letter or ledger that is affixed to an album page , so there is really no back to this piece except the other side of the album page .

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I agree that it is best to save your money and get a pre-accident autograph , besides his pre-accident signature I believe is very attractive and displays nicely.

Got these (and many others) during spring training in 1957. Clearly the best thing I did as a 9 year old. Free too.

[Scott Garner]

Kevin,
Unquestionably an EPIC piece to own!
Certainly one of the most elusive autographs in our hobby...
Thank again for sharing,
Scott

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Back in the late 1980's, Campanella started using a machine that allowed him to "sign" his name.

Does anyone have a picture of the machine? I've always wondered how it worked.

[1963Topps Set]

I saw Campy sign at a show in the late 1980s for $350.00 and he was using this so called auto pen. I didn't like it. Very sloppy, one person complained Campy messed up his item. I don't count it, I'd rather have a pre accident signature.

[Fuddjcal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHk4_AHMyZw

this is how I remember seeing him from 1990-1993, when our seats were on the same club level. This movie is from 1974, and I think he actually got better at signing 15 years later? I didn't care about autographs then and I am sorry I never took pictures. I did get many autographs from 1970-1973, when I sat on the field level with gramps.( I sat next to Casey Stengel in 1971 and he signed my program 3 times, but that's for any day. I was 10)

My friend does swear that when I took him to the game, he got Campy's signature on a ball. He still has it. I looked at it a few years ago when I visited him and it looked remarkably good.

Like I said, I remember him moving his hands pretty well, as he was always shaking peoples hands. I just had my mouth opened and stared mostly. While I remember the stamp, his wife signing & apparently he signed as well.

I know there are some photos floating around of him signing the leather panels of the backward stitched balls he did for scoreboard with the machine (Maybe Ken G. has some photos or info to add?)

The funny thing is, from my memories, I think he signed better with-out the stupid machine, but it allowed him to sign more items and for a longer period of time. Anyway, I just loved the guy and still do.

[MacDice]

I think that even with the device that he had problems signing his name small. Seen signatures on bats and photos but not many cards. Would love to see a signed 1957 Topps

[mr2686]

Just to set the record straight. Campanella could move his hand but it would shake and he couldn't sign after the accident. He did not use a "machine", it was more like a brace to keep his hand in place so that he could hold the pen and move the top part of his hand enough to sign (think keeping the palm of your hand in one place while you try to sign). This is why, for the most part, the Roy and the first part of Campanella came out pretty good, but then got a little rough due to him having to stretch his hand to finish the autograph. These autographs are in no way "not authentic", just not as desirable. When you have a choice, it's better to get an earlier sig, but there's nothing wrong with the later ones. I'm speaking from experience because I got his autograph back in the 80's at one of his signings and was fascinated by his brace, and watched him for quite a long time. The 16x20 signed photo of him I got that day is still one of my favorites.

Updated: I just saw the youtube link to him signing in the early 70's, and I can tell you that whatever he was using then was not what us was using in the late 80's. I'd always wondered where the thought he used more of an autopen came from, and now I know.

[david4602]

This is a strange one. When i started collecting in the mid 70s I too was in the camp that the post accident signatures of Campanella were not the "real" thing. Looking back this was groupthink...perpetuated by the fact that his wife could them sign his legal signature. And many of signatures in the market were by her. So you had 3 camps...those that only wanted pre-accident (majority), those that wanted to save money and get the post-accident scrawl, and thirdly those that would accept his legal signature (signed by his wife) to "check the box" on having his signature.

Looking back, there is no reason to think that his pre-accident signature is less authentic than his post accident. It is harder to authenticate (unless it comes with notarization, which he did at many shows late in life). I wish I had a signed HOF plaque...all I have now is Perez Steele.

Tons of players have signicantly different signatures at age 80 than 40, and when you throw in strokes by folks like Combs, Haines, Leonard with the significant aging associated with Grove and others, its tough to make the case not to collect post accident signatures.