SCD & Coach's Corner

LOUCARDFAN · #1 06-18-2009, 03:07 PM

After thinking about this for some time and reading comments from different people in the industry, I think I have to believe that Coach's Corner is the one who chose to end the relationship instead of the other way around.

If SCD had cut ties with CC why would CC just have two pages of advertising in their most recent additions. It appears CC was scaling back and moving from them. Supposedly one of CC's reps commented that it was their decision baed on dwindling readership and SCD's competing auction house that was the final blow.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=26759

I think alot of people including myself were ready to give SCD some credit but in all actuallity I don't think they did anything in this situation. Same old money hungry publication to me. That is why I won't be renewing my subscription that runs out next month.

canjond · #2 06-18-2009, 03:51 PM

Interesting points. SCD's silence is defening.

shelly · #3 06-18-2009, 04:28 PM

You might be spot on. If you go to CC web site it says that they will be sending out a monthly catalogue to all bidders and consigners.

drc · #4 06-18-2009, 04:47 PM

If CC says one of the causes for leaving was the competition from collect.com advertising, the publisher should be given at least some, if incidental, credit for this pressure. Even if they didn't expect CC to quit, SCD had to have know that their main advertiser wouldn't be doing cartwheels over the collect.com catalogs.

tinkereversandme · #5 06-18-2009, 05:14 PM

I think there is one truth here and I don't know who to believe. Do you honestly want us to think that Coach's Corner didn't like the fact that collect.com was going to compete with them? Do you also honestly think that they weren't getting fair market value for their items because of SCD and their shrinking circulation and now low ad participants (because of CC?), or did the consumer just smarten up and realize that most of the items that they sold, were found exclusively in that auction and the word "rare" meant something entirely different to those folks. If SCD claims to have kicked out CC but CC actually left on their own, there should be no praise for SCD for doing the right thing. I also don't think the phones in their lawyers' office are chirping. There have been a number of threads, articles and videos and if they haven't gone after those folks, you think they want to open themselves up here? Nah. I think it's a mess for SCD which murders trees weekly.

Larry

sports-rings · #6 06-19-2009, 07:10 AM

Larry - SCD is not murdering trees. The paper used in printing is a renewable resource and printing keeps a alot of people employeed in this country.

I don't know much about advertising but I do know that Coach's corner had advertisied in SCD for years and years. If it were not for their advertising in SCD how would we all know of Coach's Corner? They needed SCD and SCD needed them, it was a perfect marrage. Just because SCD started their own auction site (which I feel is a disgrace to discuss for another day), why would CC pull out if the advertising was helping them sell the garbage that they sell. In advertising, you don't stop what is working. CC probibly makes a high profit since we all know they consign their own garbage so why would they care if SCD set up an auction site. CC did not care when Lelands, Robert Edwards, Hunt and all the others advertised too. I think they are just trying to spin this situation to their advantage. If direct mail was a better advertising method for CC they would have done it years ago - when postage was less money. Postage just went up again! Companies like Lelands, Robert Edwards and the others can afford to spend $5 - $15 per catalog for printing and mailing because their items are of such high quality that their 17 - 20 % juice covers the costs of producing and mailing the catalogs. Coache's corner will find out soon how expensive it is to mail catalogs and it won't help them land new customers as many of their existing customers find out that they have purchased worthless crap. I bet unlike Lelands or R.E. or Hunt, their is high turnover of loyal customers at CC.

CC is very good at childish threats. They threaten me and Tom at youtube all the time. They are just trying to throw out mis-interformation, I am sure SCD threw them out. SCD had lost major advertisers over this (I know because the two advertisers told me this.) Two advertisers also told me that they found that advertising in SCD works and produced desired results. I believe that means that it even works for CC.

I know we have heard for a while that SCD was going into the auction business and I know it was not that long ago that CC had their full-blown auction advertisement and "paid" auction story (the crap that looks like scd coverage but has the small "paid advertising" notice above the story.

Well, CC, you know what. I suggest you sue me and go ahead and sue SCD too. Here is what will happen when you sue Mike The Ring Guy like you hinted you would do at my blog:

Can you imagine the fun you and I will have in the discovery phase of the suit? That is where my lawyer or lawyers can request documents and other evidence from CC and use the evidence they find to show my comments were not slander.

I bet I could charge admission during the deposition stage. No need to charge admission, I would just update this blog with what I find. Can't wait to see how much you pay your "authenticators" and who keeps submitting those Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb balls.

For those not familiar with my blog or my battle against CC please visit it at: www.sports-rings.com

Oh, and if SCD does not join the fight, you can bet I will be back putting the heat on them too.

thanks,

RichardSimon · #7 06-19-2009, 09:05 AM

"Can you imagine the fun you and I will have in the discovery phase of the suit? That is where my lawyer or lawyers can request documents and other evidence from CC and use the evidence they find to show my comments were not slander.

I bet I could charge admission during the deposition stage".
--
How much, hold a ticket for me.
Discovery in a lawsuit is a wonderful thing, nothing is sacred and your atty. can get the names of all of the CC consignors.
And then that e mailer who writes under an anonymous AOL name and who has his mailbox blocked, so you cannot return an answer to him, can actually find out if the four people he is accusing of being CC suppliers are actually CC suppliers.
ps. In case this info is needed at some point in time I want to note it here - John Doe lawsuits can be useful too. When I sued an unknown AOL member for libel I filed suit against John Doe a/k/a ,,,,,,,, AOL was subpoeaned and they immediately coughed up the real name of that person. He and his wife eventually were forced to cough up a tidy sum of money to me.

sports-rings · #8 06-19-2009, 07:33 PM

Richard,

thanks for the explaination. I guess the folks at Coach's Corner have a lot more to loose in starting a liable suit than they can gain. Would you agree?

drc · #9 06-19-2009, 08:33 PM

Oscar Wilde sued a man for libel and was sentenced to two years hard labor.

The long and short of the case is Wilde accused the defendant of libeling him by saying he broke the law. After listening to the testimony, the judge decided that the defendant's statements had been accurate, Wilde had broke the law. The defendant was found not guilty of libel and Wilde was sentence for the law he broke. The courts would never have known of the broken law if Wilde had not brought the libel suit.

RichardSimon · #10 06-20-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sports-rings.com

Richard,

thanks for the explaination. I guess the folks at Coach's Corner have a lot more to loose in starting a liable suit than they can gain. Would you agree?

(libel is the spelling

)

I believe you are certainly correct.

J.McMurry · #11 06-20-2009, 08:09 AM

No Rich, he got it right.

It would be a Liable suit,as in his lawyers are liable to open a can of whup-ass on CC if this proceeds.

FrankWakefield · #12 06-20-2009, 12:18 PM

they'll let the whup-ass loose.

But they will lose, not 'loose'

barrysloate · #13 06-20-2009, 12:36 PM

I saw that too Frank.

sports-rings · #14 06-22-2009, 04:21 AM

someone just posted a very interesting note on my blog. He added up the total revenue from the last CC auction and he says it came to half a million dollars.

If you multiply this by the 12 auctions a year, I guess we can conclude that the owners of CC are grossing 6 million dollars a year in revenue. I never stopped to calculate these numbers before. They are worse and more depressing than I ever could imagine. Please, we have to stop these guys!

Mike The Ring Guy

www.sports-rings.com (look for my blogs on this subject)

sports-rings · #15 06-23-2009, 10:32 AM

some of us floated around some numbers and came up with the fact that since CC has been doing auctions for 20 years, and they used to collect higher fees on their auctions, it is quite possible that they have grossed
over $100,000,000 since their inception.

Do you think a lawyer or law firm could start a class action suit for all the people who have been ripped off during the last twenty years?

With law firms getting from 20 - 33 percent of the collection they could easily make $20,000,000. How great would that be if this was the way to shut down those clowns at Coach's Corner.

Looking around the internet I see that If someone wants to start a class action suit, they can visit classactionconnect.com

I don't qualify as I have never purchased anything from CC.

What do you guys think? Is this a possible way to shut down CC?

Mike The Ring Guy.

ibuysportsephemera · #16 06-23-2009, 11:24 AM

I need to jump in on this as a buyer from CC auctions. I only purchase (and collect) sports related ephemera and not autographs, cards or game used items, etc. That being said, I have gotten some pretty good deals on vintage paper items in their auctions. I am not defending their practices, but I always live by the rule: if it looks like a pig, smells like a pig and sound like a pig..it probably is a pig. If someone believes that a game used autographed bat from Babe Ruth should only sell for a few hundred dollars, who is at fault? I don't believe that all the blame should be put on CC, obviously there are plenty of willing bidders (who all can't be ignorant) who continue to keep them in business auction after auction.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #17 06-23-2009, 11:29 AM

Oh no! Let's not blame the criminals, let's blame their victims! Ridiculous (although I think you could have re-worded your sentiments to make them sound better).

ibuysportsephemera · #18 06-23-2009, 11:31 AM

My point is that not all buyers are victims and not all of CC's items are fakes..is that simple enough?

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #19 06-23-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

. If someone believes that a game used autographed bat from Babe Ruth should only sell for a few hundred dollars, who is at fault?

Sorry, it was this line that really bothered me.

Gullibility, blind trust and lack of knowledge are not crimes. Granted, people who believe that they can buy a bridge in Brooklyn should perhaps be doing something else with their time. They do, however, deserve full refunds and to see justice done.

ibuysportsephemera · #20 06-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Please do not misunderstand me...I do not think that anyone should be allowed to sell fake items. I was simply responding to Mike The Ring Guys post about a class action suit. As consumers and collectors, we should always use common sense, check provenance and do our due diligence when making any kind of purchases (especially on-line). As I stated previously, if it doesn't "smell" good then you should pass. But, most collectors and dealers that I know are always looking for a good deal, that is just human nature (IMO).

smtjoy · #21 06-23-2009, 12:09 PM

I'm sorry but the buyer is no way at fault, possibily guillable, newbie, stupid, etc but not at fault. CC advertises the items as real and even provides COA's that claim they are, CC is clearly breaking the law, along with Morales, etc and one day they will pay. The facts are 99% of the autos are fake, sell for pennys on the dollar of what they would be worth and are pretty much a joke to the real experts in the field.

As far as suiing them and getting 20,000,000 not going to happen, I would be surprised if they even have a 250,000 dollars in the company. They well know what they are doing and the laws they are breaking and its my guess that money goes byebye as soon as they get it. I would bet the owners are already prepared for the day they get busted.

I sure hope the day comes where the FBI can link them with a forger and take the whole thing down.

ibuysportsephemera · #22 06-23-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtjoy

CC advertises the items as real and even provides COA's that claim they are, CC is clearly breaking the law,

This is wrong and illegal and let me be clear that I am in no way condoning this or defending CC.

Jeff

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #23 06-23-2009, 12:39 PM

Scott's speculation that the profits disappear in short order could very well be true. Oddly, throughout history, it seems as though nearly all forgers in every field have been perpetually short on funds. Their Achilles heels have mainly been in living the fast life--booze, drugs, gambling. There is no explanation as to why this is has been the case in so many instances. Mark Hoffmann, one of the most financially successful (and dare I say "gifted"?) forgers got rich with his works of deceit. Unlike your usual forger m.o., the main reasons for his behavior stem from a giant, insatiable ego and sheer revenge (which is one of many areas in which his case is rather unique).

sports-rings · #24 06-23-2009, 01:19 PM

I was hoping a class action suit could be a way to get these guys out of business.

Yes, some people by good stuff from CC, and some are even thinking of ways to flip the bad stuff and I guess they too are guilty, but I was hoping this could be a way of stopping CC since the FBI may not ever be able to stop them.

They may have set up the perfect crime. If it's an inside job and no one talks and they don't talk to outsiders who come along can the FBI ever stop them?