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  #1  
Old 12-26-2017, 11:57 AM
Jersey City Giants Jersey City Giants is offline
Jason Seidl
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Default T209 First Series Research

As some of you know I have become obsessed with the T209 Contentnea First Series set over the last year (still looking to complete it by the way!). What has amazed me is the fact that both major grading companies list it as a 1910 issue. Great research has been done by Michael Peich that points out several players in the 16 card issue did not play for the teams they were depicted on in the set (I urge all interested in this set to check out his fantastic website ( https://t209-contentnea.com/ ). However, I have taken it a step further and uncovered some specifics that I believe help the case for establishing 1909 as the definitive production year (are you listening PSA and SGC????).

Below is list of all the players and their playing history (as per the website https://www.baseball-reference.com/ ). While Baseball Reference (BR) is a great resource it is very “incomplete” from this era of baseball (I have found numerous players in box scores from these leagues that are not listed in BR). Hence I went searching old newspapers from the areas around the teams and uncovered new information. The key to understanding when this set was likely produced lies in Hub Gilmore and Joseph “Red” Walsh. Based on my new information I believe this set went into production mode very early in the season (call it April) in 1909 and was likely distributed shortly thereafter. It is important to note that the Carolina Association started the season before the Eastern Carolina League did in 1909 (as of June 4th they played 17 more games than the ECL).

Charles Armstrong - Played for Wilson in both 1909 and 1910 (team pictured in T209 set).

Red Booles – Split 1909 between Cleveland MLB, Shreveport of the Texas League and Raleigh (team pictured in the T209 set). No record of playing beyond that 1909 year.

Bourquise – completely unknown player, mystery card that has a uniform that reads Fulton on it. I tried to find information on this player or anyone close to this name in box scores but no luck so far.

John H. Cooper – Played for Wilson (team pictured in the T209 set), Spartanburg, and Greenville in 1909. Jumped to Wilmington in 1910.

John W. Crowell – Played for Wilson in 1909 and no record beyond that (actually only played a year prior at Sumter in 1908).

David Crockett – Played for Goldsboro in 1909 and 1910 (was the team he is pictured playing for in the T209 set).

Phifer "Fie" Fullenwider – split the 1909 season between Little Rock and Raleigh (team pictured in the T209 set). Jumped to Columbia in 1910 (played there in 1911 too). Numerous other teams and leagues until retiring in 1923.

Hub Gilmore – Played for Wilson (was pictured as a Winston-Salem player in the T209 set but is not listed as playing for them in Baseball Reference). However, I found Winston Salem box scores listing him as having played (April 19th and 23rd editions of the Twin City Daily Sentinel) as well as a preseason report that he was signed to play with Winston Salem in a March 25th article. Then the Winston Salem Journal reported that he was sold to Wilson in their April 29th edition. He was in Wilmington in 1910, no record beyond that.

H. H. Hoffman – Played for Raleigh in 1909 (team pictured in the T209 set) then jumped to Wilmington in 1910. No record beyond that.

J. J. Lane – played for Wilson in 1909 and 1910 (was the team he is pictured playing for in the T209 set).

P. L. (Legs) Martin – Played for Spartanburg from 1907-1909 (team pictured in the T209 set). Oddly enough he is pictured in a Spartanburg jersey but has a cap with a W on it (never played for a team from a town beginning with a W before or after according to Baseball Reference). Was in Columbia in 1910 then various other teams until 1913.

Daniel McGeehan – Played for Wilson in both 1909 and 1910.

Ashley F. Pope – played for Raleigh in 1909 (team pictured in the T209 set) then jumped to Jacksonville in 1910. Went on to play for numerous leagues and teams until 1926.

Charles Sisson - Played for Greensboro in 1908-1909 (team pictured in the T209 set) befor jumping to Columbus (where he played until 1912). Jumped around with several teams and leagues through 1915.

Charles Stubbe – Went from Macon in 1908 to Goldsboro in 1909 (team pictured in the T209 set) then no record in baseball after that year.

Joseph Walsh – Payed for Greensboro (team pictured in the T209 set) then jumped to Rocky Mount later in same season. I found an article in the Charlotte Evening Chronicle from March 27th that states “ Red Walsh, formerly with Greensboro, has signed with the Davenport, Ia. Club. Walsh offered to play with Spartanburg, but he wanted all the money in the club’s treasury.” I could not find a record of him playing for Davenport (The Prodigals). I then uncovered a Box Score from a June 13th paper for has Walsh playing for Rocky Mount. Late in the season the Courrier-Journal from Louisville has notes all the minor league drafting by Major league teams in their September 2nd edition of 1909 and it lists Joseph Walsh being drafted by New York from Rocky Mount. So it is safe to assume he was with Rocky Mount from the middle of the season to the end. He also played for Rocky Mount in 1910.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2017, 12:27 PM
mzm55 mzm55 is offline
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I am fairly confident that I discovered the mystery of the unknown “Bourguise” card a little over a year ago. First, most have speculated that the player actually pictured is David Bourquin who appears in the second series. This then raises additional questions – did Dave Bourquin have a connection with Rocky Mt. and Fulton? As far as I know, Dave Bourquin is not formally listed as playing for either of these teams. However, my research indicates that he did in fact play for both.

First, there needs to be proof that David Bourquin played for Rocky Mt. The clipped attached below is from November 27, 1909 - David Bourqin was indeed with the Rocky Mt. team.

Second, a connection needs to be made between David Bourquin and simply “Fulton” in order to solve the mystery of his uniform. This, I believe, is what has essentially stumped everyone at this point. The second clipped i've attached shows David Bourquin playing with Fulton in July 1908.

In addition to these two teams, David Bourqin jumped around quite a bit and played with many other clubs. I am confident that the “Bourguise” card was an error – a misspelling and using an outdated photo with an obscure team.

Best,

Zach
Attached Images
File Type: jpg T209-1.jpg (14.2 KB, 286 views)
File Type: jpg T209-2.jpg (16.9 KB, 293 views)
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2017, 01:12 PM
Jersey City Giants Jersey City Giants is offline
Jason Seidl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzm55 View Post
I am fairly confident that I discovered the mystery of the unknown “Bourguise” card a little over a year ago. First, most have speculated that the player actually pictured is David Bourquin who appears in the second series. This then raises additional questions – did Dave Bourquin have a connection with Rocky Mt. and Fulton? As far as I know, Dave Bourquin is not formally listed as playing for either of these teams. However, my research indicates that he did in fact play for both.

First, there needs to be proof that David Bourquin played for Rocky Mt. The clipped attached below is from November 27, 1909 - David Bourqin was indeed with the Rocky Mt. team.

Second, a connection needs to be made between David Bourquin and simply “Fulton” in order to solve the mystery of his uniform. This, I believe, is what has essentially stumped everyone at this point. The second clipped i've attached shows David Bourquin playing with Fulton in July 1908.

In addition to these two teams, David Bourqin jumped around quite a bit and played with many other clubs. I am confident that the “Bourguise” card was an error – a misspelling and using an outdated photo with an obscure team.

Best,

Zach
Zach, great stuff. If this is the case this would cause many more questions to when the set was produced. Especially since Gilmore and Walsh were gone from their respective teams long before November. What we will never find out is why they chose the players they did! Michael points out that Wilson was the champs and that makes sense why they have the most cards in the set. However, some of the other selections are odd in terms of their service with their team listed.
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:07 PM
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Jason Wells
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzm55 View Post
I am fairly confident that I discovered the mystery of the unknown “Bourguise” card a little over a year ago. First, most have speculated that the player actually pictured is David Bourquin who appears in the second series. This then raises additional questions – did Dave Bourquin have a connection with Rocky Mt. and Fulton? As far as I know, Dave Bourquin is not formally listed as playing for either of these teams. However, my research indicates that he did in fact play for both.

First, there needs to be proof that David Bourquin played for Rocky Mt. The clipped attached below is from November 27, 1909 - David Bourqin was indeed with the Rocky Mt. team.

Second, a connection needs to be made between David Bourquin and simply “Fulton” in order to solve the mystery of his uniform. This, I believe, is what has essentially stumped everyone at this point. The second clipped i've attached shows David Bourquin playing with Fulton in July 1908.

In addition to these two teams, David Bourqin jumped around quite a bit and played with many other clubs. I am confident that the “Bourguise” card was an error – a misspelling and using an outdated photo with an obscure team.

Best,

Zach
Beat me to the Bourqin connection. I hadnt research it. It was always my personal belief that was him. Collecting T209/T210 will make you have to decifer many different names and team affiliations. Great research J.C.G. and others. I have been a fan of Michaels website for awhile. Love these cards.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:38 PM
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Bliggity Bliggity is offline
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Jason & Zach - thanks for the great information! I know there have been a few threads speculating about Bourquise/Bourquin over the years, but those two clippings are new to me and do seem to provide the missing links. Would be really neat to find that original photo and do a match to his T209-2 card.

This is my favorite pre-war set, and the first pre-war set I completed.

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  #6  
Old 12-27-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliggity View Post
Jason & Zach - thanks for the great information! I know there have been a few threads speculating about Bourquise/Bourquin over the years, but those two clippings are new to me and do seem to provide the missing links. Would be really neat to find that original photo and do a match to his T209-2 card.

This is my favorite pre-war set, and the first pre-war set I completed.
Nice. Love the colors and unique cards in this set.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:59 AM
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I came across these newspaper articles related to this set while doing
some research.

This article appeared in the Daily Times (Wilson NC) on May 6 1910

Contentnea ad 1.jpg


This one was in the same paper on January 3 1911

Contentnea ad 3.jpg



Charlotte News April 27 1910
T209-T210 Photo ad.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 01-11-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2019, 06:04 AM
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Jason Wells
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Nice connection to one of the photographers used to take the Series 2 pictures of a couple leagues and multiple teams. Wonder what gems are in the Moose family collection?!?
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