NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:43 PM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 94
Default

There are miscut broadleaf cards, lenox cards, hindu cards etc all of which have card populations under 1000.

The identical factory and brands make it more a t213 if you ask me and really is solid justifaction for a new card T type classification with sub types 1 2 and 3 for subtle differences among cards from the same factory and brand.

Again, I feel the date is irrelevant some and everyone is overthinking it. Especially when I do not think anyone can point me to a rule or document that states a date is a mandatory part of determining what type and class a card should be designated.

Last edited by MichelaiTorres83; 01-11-2019 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:54 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83 View Post
There are miscut broadleaf cards, lenox cards, hindu cards etc all of which have card populations under 1000.

The identical factory and brands make it more a t213 if you ask me and really is solid justifaction for a new card T type classification with sub types 1 2 and 3 for subtle differences among cards from the same factory and brand.

Again, I feel the date is irrelevant some and everyone is overthinking it. Especially when I do not think anyone can point me to a rule or document that states a date is a mandatory part of determining what type and class a card should be designated.
Burdick lumped the 16 ATC brands under the T206 designation for his ACC catalog. The date is of relevance. 1909-11.

Not sure about your factory theory... Also Coupon Type 3's also come with a Factory 8 overprint which was in North Carolina. (not New Orleans) Remember, these cards were shipped to all the factories from American Lithographic. Like I said, quality control is different with a lot of brands. The T210 Series 8 should have way more miscut, wrong back, issues than they do, and per my knowledge you can't count on 2 hands the amount of 2 name, or error cards in that series and Thousands of those cards exists. Each production and release could have brought different factors. T211 has either 1 or No error cards and there are hundreds... Some things just can't be explained...
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 01-11-2019 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:37 PM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
Manny
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Key Biscayne, FL
Posts: 611
Default

Using Ted's logic, then Gypsy Queens should be N172's.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:02 PM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 94
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Burdick lumped the 16 ATC brands under the T206 designation for his ACC catalog. The date is of relevance. 1909-11.

Not sure about your factory theory... Also Coupon Type 3's also come with a Factory 8 overprint which was in North Carolina. (not New Orleans) Remember, these cards were shipped to all the factories from American Lithographic. Like I said, quality control is different with a lot of brands. The T210 Series 8 should have way more miscut, wrong back, issues than they do, and per my knowledge you can't count on 2 hands the amount of 2 name, or error cards in that series and Thousands of those cards exists. Each production and release could have brought different factors. T211 has either 1 or No error cards and there are hundreds... Some things just can't be explained...
Where does it say that date is a criteria?
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:09 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Thank you for your response Jeremy. I don't think either one of us is
going to change the other persons opinion on this. As I have stated previously
based on extended research of different aspects of the printing of the
T206 set the T213-1's don't match up with any of the 350 series
backs that were printed with subjects used in the T213-1's.
If we find evidence that they were printed during the 350 only
phase (and I have been searching one way or the other) they would be a rule breaker for sure.

I don't think I answered your question about when I felt the T213-1's
were printed. Honestly I don't know it could have been soon after the
350 only printing concluded up until right before the printing of T213-2's
but in my opinion they reused the leftover plates/artwork and
possibly someone selected the subjects they wanted to use for the
T213-1's from the group of plates that were no longer being used.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:27 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
I will lean on Ted, Scot, you, and others on the following questions...

What about the other "Southern Leaguers" from the T206 set? Any patterns with the remaining "SL" players even though they are not actually SL players but called that in the T206 set... (Texas League, South Atlantic League, Virginia League are all absent from the Coupon set, correct !?) The Coupon set has 20 True Southern League players in it. Those 8 Teams represented are period to 1909.
This would suggest they were produced & released around that time frame, most likely 1910, but most certainly not later than 1911.

Why is the Coupon set missing T206 Southern leaguers from The South Atlantic, Virginia, and Texas leagues ? Perhaps, it's as easy as where they were released. New Orleans. New Orleans was in the Southern Association obvioulsy and the 20 SL players represent 8 teams in the SA.

Jeremy

We may never find an actual date when the 1910 COUPON cards were issued. However, we really don't need to. We have sufficient evidence gleaned from years of our research,
which logically suggests that this set of 68 cards were printed and issued within the T206 timeline.

Starting with this fact that American Lithographic (ALC) in 1909 printed 34 different Southern Leaguers (SL)....16 of which represent the Southern Association. Circa late 1909
or early 1910, ALC expanded the SL sub-set to 48 subjects, 20 of which represent the Southern Association (SA). The four additional SA subjects are Bill Hart, "Hub" Hart, Lentz
and Rockenfeld. This is significant, as it clearly sets a Spring/Summer 1910 timeline for this T206 press run.

Furthermore, a timeline "window" is set by the fact that Carlos Smith (Shreveport) is not included as SA guy, since the Shreveport Pirates were transferred from SA to the Texas
League (1908 - 1910). And, ALC correctly identified Carlos Smith as one of the six Texas Leaguers which were included in the group of 48 subjects in the SL sub-set.

Finally, for those who think that ALC printed the "T213-1" cards in 1911 (or beyond). ALC started their gold-bordered sets (T80, T205, etc.) in the Spring of 1911. We have ALC
documented evidence regarding the T80 cards which were inserted in cigarettes packs with 350/460 and 460-only series T206 cards in the Spring of 1911......

T80 cards




Jeremy
It has become wearisome trying to convince members of this forum that the "T213-1" cards are indeed 1910 COUPON's which were printed and issued within the T206 timeline.

Take care good buddy.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:42 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,260
Default

Quote:
someone selected the subjects they wanted to use for the
T213-1's from the group of plates that were no longer being used.
This is what I was driving at when I asked about the Shreveport, LA. player. Why are they selecting Billy Campbell unless they had to as part of a group?
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:15 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Jeremy

We may never find an actual date when the 1910 COUPON cards were issued. However, we really don't need to. We have sufficient evidence gleaned from years of our research,
which logically suggests that this set of 68 cards were printed and issued within the T206 timeline.

Starting with this fact that American Lithographic (ALC) in 1909 printed 34 different Southern Leaguers (SL)....16 of which represent the Southern Association. Circa late 1909
or early 1910, ALC expanded the SL sub-set to 48 subjects, 20 of which represent the Southern Association (SA). The four additional SA subjects are Bill Hart, "Hub" Hart, Lentz
and Rockenfeld. This is significant, as it clearly sets a Spring/Summer 1910 timeline for this T206 press run.

Furthermore, a timeline "window" is set by the fact that Carlos Smith (Shreveport) is not included as SA guy, since the Shreveport Pirates were transferred from SA to the Texas
League (1908 - 1910). And, ALC correctly identified Carlos Smith as one of the six Texas Leaguers which were included in the group of 48 subjects in the SL sub-set.

Finally, for those who think that ALC printed the "T213-1" cards in 1911 (or beyond). ALC started their gold-bordered sets (T80, T205, etc.) in the Spring of 1911. We have ALC
documented evidence regarding the T80 cards which were inserted in cigarettes packs with 350/460 and 460-only series T206 cards in the Spring of 1911......




Jeremy
It has become wearisome trying to convince members of this forum that the "T213-1" cards are indeed 1910 COUPON's which were printed and issued within the T206 timeline.

Take care good buddy.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Ted, The same thing would apply if they reused the old plates as it would
for several of the things you've brought attention to.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:59 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Pat

Back in my High School days (during the Paleolithic Age ), I worked part-time in a Print Shop. I'm quite familiar with printing practices. And, I can tell you that printers
don't use.... "reused the old plates".
Major printing firms have multiple plates of each image so that they can replace used ones. As is obvious, as the plates wear the quality of the printed image deteriorates.

ALC printed the T213-2, T213-3, T214, T215-2 cards with a whole new set of printing plates.

The "T213-1" sub-set was printed concurrently with the exact same printing plates used to produce their respective T206 cards


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:01 AM
t206fix's Avatar
t206fix t206fix is offline
Tony Davis
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83 View Post
Again, I feel the date is irrelevant some and everyone is overthinking it. Especially when I do not think anyone can point me to a rule or document that states a date is a mandatory part of determining what type and class a card should be designated.
I think this argument will go on and on until we define what a t206 really is. Wikipedia notes:
The tobacco card set known as T206 was issued from 1909 to 1911 in cigarette and loose tobacco packs through 16 different brands owned by the American Tobacco Company. It is a landmark set in the history of baseball card collecting, due to its size and rarity, and the quality of its color lithographs.

Is there a different definition? Are we arguing what Burdick thought a t206 was, and if so, case closed, he said "no".

When I was 12, I bought boxes of Cookie Crunch trying to complete this stupid set... Do we say that to have a complete 1984 topps set, you need to have this set because it was produced in 1984 by Topps? No, because we have a definition of what the 1984 topps set is comprised of...


So what makes a t206? If we answer that, we can stop arguing, or maybe, we just like arguing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (43.2 KB, 109 views)
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 01-12-2019, 04:32 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by t206fix View Post
I think this argument will go on and on until we define what a t206 really is. Wikipedia notes:
The tobacco card set known as T206 was issued from 1909 to 1911 in cigarette and loose tobacco packs through 16 different brands owned by the American Tobacco Company. It is a landmark set in the history of baseball card collecting, due to its size and rarity, and the quality of its color lithographs.

Is there a different definition? Are we arguing what Burdick thought a t206 was, and if so, case closed, he said "no".

When I was 12, I bought boxes of Cookie Crunch trying to complete this stupid set... Do we say that to have a complete 1984 topps set, you need to have this set because it was produced in 1984 by Topps? No, because we have a definition of what the 1984 topps set is comprised of...


So what makes a t206? If we answer that, we can stop arguing, or maybe, we just like arguing.
Good point Tony.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:34 AM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
Manny
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Key Biscayne, FL
Posts: 611
Default

What is a T206?
  • A card that was printed by ALC between the years 1909-11? or,
  • A card that was issued inside packages of ATC branded tobacco products between the years 1909-11? or,
  • both?

ALC is just a printer, and probably had a few clients, so it can't just be that they were printed by ALC because they could have been issued by another tobacco company. T206 cards must have the same issuer, and in this case it was ATC.

If the Coupon cards were printed by ALC, and issued/distributed by ATC inside tobacco products, between the years 1909 and 1911, then they should be T206.

Is there a definitive answer to any of those three questions at this point?
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:28 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default If it looks like an ATC brand, it's probably an ATC brand, therefore a T206...

MichelaiTorres83;1844471]Where does it say that date is a criteria?

What I am saying is Coupon was released most likely during the 1910-11 based off everything we know, and probably should be lumped in as the 17th ATC brand produced by American Lithographic, which would mean it is more closely related to those 16 brands that have been designated T206, and therefore should be part of the T206 set. It is far closer to the T206 group than the 1914 & 19 Coupon Type 2, 3, with glossy finish, blue lettering, and different minor league players featured in the set that are not featured in the T206 set. I think Burdick simply lumped Type 1's because of the name Coupon even though the Type 1's are way closer to the sixteen 1909-11 T206 Brands than even they are with the 1914 & 1919 Coupon Brands.


What we know :

1. It looks just like the other 16 ATC brands Burdick included in T206.
2. According to Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, the entire Coupon group consist of 350 series.
3. Also, according to Lipset's EOBBC, the 20 Southern Leaguers featured in Coupon were issued with the 350 series subjects.
4. The Coupon has a Size variance, just like the other T206 brand, American Beauty. (Depth/Width)

Side Note :

*The T211 Red Sun set was released in New Orleans (early Spring due to dating of players in minor and majors) and the intended 2nd series was not released. Perhaps that was due to the ATC break up in May of 1911. If the T206 brands seized ball card production in 1911 from the ATC break up, then most likely the 2nd Series for T211 never got off the ground for the same reasons. This could be a likely reason for Coupons being in limited numbers if it is from the 350 series only, released at back end of 1910, early 1911. (In previous posts, I was wondering why Red Sun didn't release their 2nd series and also drawing a parallel with Coupon as 2 sets in New Orleans that didn't do very well in terms of cards released, and I suggested there was some event that disrupted that 2nd series of Red Suns, as well as more Coupons being released with packs/cartons of cigarettes. The only event I can find around that timeline is the ATC break up which was obviously a big deal as it disrupted the whole industry and T206 cards as we know them stopped in 1911. Apologies for the ramble...)

* More Info - In 1915 Category 4 Hurricane hit New Orleans... http://www.neworleansbar.org/uploads...20Irby_1-2.pdf
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 01-12-2019 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Additional T211 info...
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:45 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
MichelaiTorres83;1844471]Where does it say that date is a criteria?

What I am saying is Coupon was released most likely during the 1910-11 based off everything we know, and probably should be lumped in as the 17th ATC brand produced by American Lithographic, which would mean it is more closely related to those 16 brands that have been designated T206, and therefore should be part of the T206 set. It is far closer to the T206 group than the 1914 & 19 Coupon Type 2, 3, with glossy finish, blue lettering, and different minor league players featured in the set that are not featured in the T206 set. I think Burdick simply lumped Type 1's because of the name Coupon even though the Type 1's are way closer to the sixteen 1909-11 T206 Brands than even they are with the 1914 & 1919 Coupon Brands.


What we know :

1. It looks just like the other 16 ATC brands Burdick included in T206.
2. According to Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, the entire Coupon group consist of 350 series.3. Also, according to Lipset's EOBBC, the 20 Southern Leaguers featured in Coupon were issued with the 350 series subjects. 4. The Coupon has a Size variance, just like the other T206 brand, American Beauty. (Depth/Width)

Side Note :
*The T211 Red Sun set was released in New Orleans (early Spring due to dating of players in minor and majors) and the intended 2nd series was not released. Perhaps that was due to the ATC break up in May of 1911. If the T206 brands seized ball card production in 1911 from the ATC break up, then most likely the 2nd Series for T211 never got off the ground for the same reasons. This could be a likely reason for Coupons being in limited numbers if it is from the 350 series only, released at back end of 1910, early 1911. (In previous posts, I was wondering why Red Sun didn't release their 2nd series and also drawing a parallel with Coupon as 2 sets in New Orleans that didn't do very well in terms of cards released, and I suggested there was some event that disrupted that 2nd series of Red Suns, as well as more Coupons being released with packs/cartons of cigarettes. The only event I can find around that timeline is the ATC break up which was obviously a big deal as it disrupted the whole industry and T206 cards as we know them stopped in 1911. Apologies for the ramble...)
The Southern Leaguers are 150/350 subjects.

img653.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 01-12-2019 at 12:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:07 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default "Southern Leaguers " vs The Real Southern Leaguer's in the Southern Association

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
The Southern Leaguers are 150/350 subjects.
Pat - Are you referring to just the 20 Southern Association players in the Coupon set as 150/350 series or are you referring to the 48 players that are referred to as "Southern Leaguer's" in the T206 set? The Texas League, South Atlantic League, and Virginia league are commonly lumped in that verbiage as "Southern Leaguers" when in fact they actually are not. The 20 players featured in the Coupon set are from the Southern Association.

Also, maybe you or Ted can clear up what Lew Lipset meant when he said "It is not surprising to find this entire Coupon Series to consist of 350 series subjects."

Pat - What do you make of the Texas, Virginia, and South Atlantic League "SL" players not being present in this set, and only the 20 Southern Association players present which I believe were 350 series only, correct !?

Edited to add, if the 150 subjects are present what does this prove? It's still in the 1909-11 time frame. Does it imply there could have been more of the 150 subjects? Are all 68 cards featured as 350 subjects ? Did Lipset miss this? What correlation or theory are you trying to prove?
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 01-12-2019 at 12:11 PM. Reason: 150 subjects
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:17 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Pat - Are you referring to just the 20 Southern Association players in the Coupon set as 150/350 series or are you referring to the 48 players that are referred to as "Southern Leaguer's" in the T206 set? The Texas League, South Atlantic League, and Virginia league are commonly lumped in that verbiage as "Southern Leaguers" when in fact they actually are not. The 20 players featured in the Coupon set are from the Southern Association.

Also, maybe you or Ted can clear up what Lew Lipset meant when he said "It is not surprising to find this entire Coupon Series to consist of 350 series subjects."

Pat - What do you make of the Texas, Virginia, and South Atlantic League "SL" players not being present in this set, and only the 20 Southern Association players present which I believe were 350 series only, correct !?
Edited to add, if the 150 subjects are present what does this prove? It's still in the 1909-11 time frame. Does it imply there could have been more of the 150 subjects? Are all 68 cards featured as 350 subjects ? Did Lipset miss this? What correlation or theory are you trying to prove?
Jeremy, the 20 subjects were printed with Hindu and possibly Old Mill during the 150
series printing so they are 150/350 subjects.

img650.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 01-12-2019 at 12:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:23 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Jeremy, the 20 subjects were printed with Hindu and possibly Old Mill during the 150
series printing so they are 150/350 subjects.

Attachment 340350

Gotcha - Thanks for the newspaper ad info! So, that dates Coupons from 1909-1911 instead of 1910-11 as I originally thought.... (assuming 350 series was printed in 1910-11)

Do you know if the 20 Southern Association players were all printed during the 350 series? Perhaps that is what Lipset meant...
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 01-12-2019 at 12:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:27 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Gotcha - Thanks for the newspaper ad info! So, that dates Coupons from 1909-1911 instead of 1910-11 as I originally thought.... (assuming 350 series was printed in 1910-11)

Do you know if the 20 Southern Association players were all printed during the 350 series? Perhaps that is what Lipset meant...
No the 350 only subjects in the coupons eliminate them from the 1909 date.

Here's the thread I posted when I found the Old Mill ad

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Old+Mill

Last edited by Pat R; 01-12-2019 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:29 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
No the 350 only subjects in the coupons eliminate them from the 1909 date.

Here's the thread I posted when I found the Old Mill ad

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Old+Mill
Ok, so back to my original theory 1910-11 !?
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:37 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Ok, so back to my original theory 1910-11 !?
There is no proof on the date but it's speculated in early 1910.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:46 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
There is no proof on the date but it's speculated in early 1910.
I am good with that as it certainly indicates the T206 timeline rather than any other timeline. 1910 most likely, 1911 at latest. Nothing proven definitive, but not likely 1912-13, and a long way away from the 1914 & 1919 Coupon Type 2 & 3 releases which look nothing like the Coupon Type 1 release.

I am guessing that Cat 4 Hurricane in New Orleans in 1915 didn't help with any evidence of local Coupon advertisements such as a pictures, broadsides, local store coupons, etc. -
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 01-12-2019 at 12:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:55 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Jeremy, the 20 subjects were printed with Hindu and possibly Old Mill during the 150
series printing so they are 150/350 subjects.

Attachment 340350
Were Jimmy Hart and Bill Hart printed with a Hindu back? I'm following the argument that we should just leave the nomenclature as it is. I don't follow the argument that Coupon 1 backs are some vastly separate set. I'm not a T206 expert, but I'm familiar with the cards and read T206Resource and stuff.
I was just hoping to learn more about the set because I collect it. If we don't learn more about it, that's okay too. Have a good one, guys.
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:08 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Jeremy

Starting with this fact that American Lithographic (ALC) in 1909 printed 34 different Southern Leaguers (SL)....16 of which represent the Southern Association.
Circa late 1909 or early 1910, ALC expanded the SL sub-set to 48 subjects, 20 of which represent the Southern Association (SA). The four additional
SA subjects are Bill Hart, "Hub" Hart, Lentz and Rockenfeld.


This is significant, as it clearly sets a Spring/Summer 1910 timeline for this T206 press run.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Hey guys,

First of all, Lew Lipset is absolutely correct...

" According to Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, the entire 1910 Coupon group consist of 350 series.
Also, according to Lipset's EOBBC, the 20 Southern Leaguers featured in Coupon were issued with the 350 series subjects. "


2nd....The 20 subjects in this set from the Southern Association were NOT all printed in 1909 with HINDU backs !
Only 16 of the 20 were. See the excerpt from my post # 156 reprised above.


This fact confirms Lipset's second statement quoted above.

Please, let's consider the actual facts in the printing of these cards, instead of going off on misleading statements.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:16 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

I stand corrected I didn't check all 20 subjects but the fact is there are
150/350 southern league subjects in the coupon set.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:34 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I stand corrected I didn't check all 20 subjects but the fact is there are
150/350 southern league subjects in the coupon set.
Pat

Please don't misconstrue, I'm not trying to be negative....but, incorrect facts in this debate can only drive us "crazy" in our attempts to resolve this puzzle.

Yes, we all know there are 34 - Southern Leaguer's (SL) which were printed in 1909 when ALC produced the 150/350 series cards.

But, the bigger picture to consider in this argument is that ALC expanded the SL sub-set to 48 subjects when they started printing the 350 series cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:45 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 984
Default

you are right ted. incorrect facts are not helpful.
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:37 PM
frohme's Avatar
frohme frohme is offline
Mike
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 580
Default Interesting thread

Lots of good discussion and back and forth amidst everything.

I would like to add only that having owned only a few, and watched the site somewhat religiously, the highest graded T213-1 I've seen posted is an SGC 50 Ed Reagan (http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...0&postcount=36). I remember another full-size one, but I couldn't find it quickly... maybe Pete can re-post it


The theories, conjectures, and discussion points around when various changes might have been imposed by the ATC breakup are interesting to think about with what might have already been in flight for T207 (i.e Napoleon, Anonymous, & Red Cross backs), but that's a subject for another thread.

--
Mike
__________________
T207 Napoleon HOF subset - in-progress .
T207 Magic Numbers: 18/5/37/1/1
T207's - Sale/Trade
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:50 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frohme View Post


The theories, conjectures, and discussion points around when various changes might have been imposed by the ATC breakup are interesting to think about with what might have already been in flight for T207 (i.e Napoleon, Anonymous, & Red Cross backs), but that's a subject for another thread.

Mike
Hi Mike

There is only an occasional thread regarding T207's on this forum. You know the T207's better than most of us here. How's about initiating more threads on these "mysterious" cards.

I say "mysterious" for several reasons.....one being that I do not think American Lithographic produced them. And, like you said "the ATC breakup" may have had some affect on why
the T207 set differs from the previous T-card sets of that era.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:22 PM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 94
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by t206fix View Post
I think this argument will go on and on until we define what a t206 really is. Wikipedia notes:
The tobacco card set known as T206 was issued from 1909 to 1911 in cigarette and loose tobacco packs through 16 different brands owned by the American Tobacco Company. It is a landmark set in the history of baseball card collecting, due to its size and rarity, and the quality of its color lithographs.

Is there a different definition? Are we arguing what Burdick thought a t206 was, and if so, case closed, he said "no".

When I was 12, I bought boxes of Cookie Crunch trying to complete this stupid set... Do we say that to have a complete 1984 topps set, you need to have this set because it was produced in 1984 by Topps? No, because we have a definition of what the 1984 topps set is comprised of...


So what makes a t206? If we answer that, we can stop arguing, or maybe, we just like arguing.
Yea. I think that is the point. Where is the criteria used to determine a t206 card from the source that did it, not what a random person copied from a Tough Stuff magazine and posted to Wikipedia.

I am not sure how else you determine if someone made a “mistake”. If he says this is my criteria, this is my analysis and its proven incorrect, that is a mistake.

There are 2 ways of reading that.

Wikipedia says that date for when they were issued, but it does not say it is a criteria used to determine a t206. Maybe the criteria for a t206 does not require a date and the date range given is simply supplimental information about the cards.

Is there anything documenting what the criteria was for either a T206 or T213 from Burdick himself? I really do not know and this is a serious question. If so can you post it?

Last edited by MichelaiTorres83; 01-12-2019 at 06:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:34 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,446
Default

Since you asked here is the definitive answer (to me), once again, why T213s aren't T206s. It is from the 1960 American Card Catalog. It isn't rocket science. I would say if Burdick didn't know of the differences, and didn't actually compare them to T206, there could be a case for the -1s to be different. He knew exactly what he was doing when he made them their own series with the others from it. I am not sure how anyone can dispute that fact when it has been written for 59 yrs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83 View Post
Yea. I think that is the point. Where is the criteria used to determine a t206 card from the source that did it, not what a random person copied from a Tough Stuff magazine and posted to Wikipedia.

I am not sure how else you determine if someone made a “mistake”. If he says this is my criteria, this is my analysis and its proven incorrect, that is a mistake.

There are 2 ways of reading that.

Wikipedia says that date for when they were issued, but it does not say it is a criteria used to determine a t206. Maybe the criteria for a t206 does not require a date and the date range given is simply supplimental information about the cards.

Is there anything documenting what the criteria was for either a T206 or T213 from Burdick himself? I really do not know and this is a serious question. If so can you post it?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg book.jpg (85.1 KB, 228 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 01-13-2019 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #181  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:16 PM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 94
Default

I have not seen that before. Thanks for posting it.

Your post sounds as though we do not agree, so to clarify, we do agree.

Your image supports that the designation is more about the brand than a date for t206 even if yhe date range on t213s may have been a mistake.

It also shows that a date range for t206 is non existing in the designation like I suspected.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:31 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey guys,

First of all, Lew Lipset is absolutely correct...

" According to Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, the entire 1910 Coupon group consist of 350 series.
Also, according to Lipset's EOBBC, the 20 Southern Leaguers featured in Coupon were issued with the 350 series subjects. "


2nd....The 20 subjects in this set from the Southern Association were NOT all printed in 1909 with HINDU backs !
Only 16 of the 20 were. See the excerpt from my post # 156 reprised above.


This fact confirms Lipset's second statement quoted above.

Please, let's consider the actual facts in the printing of these cards, instead of going off on misleading statements.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Thanks Ted for posting that info... That does confirm what I have been saying and thought that was the case. The fact that Burdick named the first coupon cards Type 1 and designated it T213 is not in question by me. What I am saying is all evidence leans towards the Coupon being another American Litho-ATC brand and the 350 series subjects suggest it was a brand from 1909-11 time frame, then I think we could all agree that Coupon is another brand just like the 16 brands Burdick designated T206. My point is, it's pretty obvious that Coupon brand is much more alike the rest of the T206 cards than it is the other two Coupon brands from 1914 & 1919. Also, don't forget that Burdick didn't even have a final count on the Type 1 Coupons (68) so he really wasn't as familiar with them as other ATC brands.
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 01-13-2019, 06:53 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey guys,

First of all, Lew Lipset is absolutely correct...

" According to Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, the entire 1910 Coupon group consist of 350 series.
Also, according to Lipset's EOBBC, the 20 Southern Leaguers featured in Coupon were issued with the 350 series subjects. "


[b]2nd....The 20 subjects in this set from the Southern Association were NOT all printed in 1909 with HINDU backs !
Only 16 of the 20 were. See the excerpt from my post # 156 reprised above.[/
B]

This fact confirms Lipset's second statement quoted above.

Please, let's consider the actual facts in the printing of these cards, instead of going off on misleading statements.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Actually Ted since you're concerned about accuracy Lipset didn't specify Hindu and although he didn't know it at the time we now have proof
that except for the six Texas League players all of the SL players were printed in 1909 during the 150 series including all 20 of the coupon
SL subjects and despite not knowing this fact Lipset still considered them a "unique issue".

img890.jpg

img891.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 01-13-2019, 09:53 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
..and although he didn't know it at the time we now have proof that except for the six Texas League players all of the SL players were printed in 1909 during the 150 series including all 20 of the coupon SL subjects.....

Pat..... "including all 20 of the coupon SL subjects".. WRONG !

So, where are the BROWN HINDU cards of these four Southern Association players.... Bill Hart, "Hub" Hart, Lentz, Rockenfeld ! ?

These four Southern Association subjects were NOT PRINTED or issued in the initial launch of the Southern League group of 34 cards in 1909.

I don't understand why you continue to ignore this fact. These 4 guys were not available until all 48 of the Southern Leaguers were issued circa early 1910 (with OLD MILL backs,
or with PIEDMONT 350 backs).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:31 AM
topcat61 topcat61 is offline
Ryan
Ryan McCla.nahan
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 98
Default

Hey Ted, everyone -It depends on how you look at it. Coupon Cigarettes and the Irby Branch were sold to Liggett & Myers on April 30th, 1911 from ATC
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 01-14-2019, 01:51 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat..... "including all 20 of the coupon SL subjects".. WRONG !

So, where are the BROWN HINDU cards of these four Southern Association players.... Bill Hart, "Hub" Hart, Lentz, Rockenfeld ! ?

These four Southern Association subjects were NOT PRINTED or issued in the initial launch of the Southern League group of 34 cards in 1909.

I don't understand why you continue to ignore this fact. These 4 guys were not available until all 48 of the Southern Leaguers were issued circa early 1910 (with OLD MILL backs,
or with PIEDMONT 350 backs).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Ted, The Old Mill Southern League ad is dated August 14 1909 are you
suggesting that they printed 34 subjects with the Old Mill backs and then
waited six to nine months before they printed the other 14 subjects with
Old Mill Backs?

13 of the 14 are depicted on the team they played on in 1909 on their T206 cards and only 4 are
depicted on the team they played on in 1910 and that's because they
stayed on the same team they played for in 1909.

Non Hindu SL chart.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 01-14-2019 at 01:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:04 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Pat

By your own admission you do not put together T206 sets......it's not your thing. Otherwise, you would have a different perspective on how these cards were produced.

Having "completed" 5 - T206 sets (and working on near "complete" 6th set), I can tell you that tracking down PIEDMONT 350 vs. OLD MILL backed Southern Leaguers
is an interesting experience. I could go into a lengthy dissertation on this subject, however it has been a long day and I'm tired. Besides, it has become apparent to me
that when I post some meaningful and valid factors on these cards, you ignore what I have said and go on to some other diversion.

So, the answer(s) you are looking for in your last post are addressed by Scot Reader in his excellent book "Inside T206" (pages 44-46)........so check-it-out.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 01-16-2019, 05:10 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat

By your own admission you do not put together T206 sets......it's not your thing. Otherwise, you would have a different perspective on how these cards were produced.

Having "completed" 5 - T206 sets (and working on near "complete" 6th set), I can tell you that tracking down PIEDMONT 350 vs. OLD MILL backed Southern Leaguers
is an interesting experience. I could go into a lengthy dissertation on this subject, however it has been a long day and I'm tired. Besides, it has become apparent to me
that when I post some meaningful and valid factors on these cards, you ignore what I have said and go on to some other diversion.

So, the answer(s) you are looking for in your last post are addressed by Scot Reader in his excellent book "Inside T206" (pages 44-46)........so check-it-out.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Ted,

I have a copy of Scots inside T206. There's a lot of valuable information in
it and I have read it several times. I believe Scot wrote it in 2006 and last
updated it in 2009. A lot of new information is and has been discovered
since then including the Old Mill ad.

I don't see how I'm creating a diversion by responding to something you
quoted from my previous post perhaps it's you that's creating the diversion
because you don't have an answer to the question.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:50 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default Coupon's 20 Southern "Association" Leaguers...

I have mentioned before I came up just a bit short of finishing the 68 Coupon Type 1 cards after a decade or so of trying, but in my passion for collecting these rare beauties was able to finish a run of the 20 SL players and these 2 cards without a doubt were the two toughest cards for me to find. I have only seen 3 Gordon Hickman cards in my lifetime and only 1 Hub Perdue (pictured). I am hopeful a few more exists so I can lay eyes on them! Love these rare T206's!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HubPerdue1.jpg (73.6 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg HubPerdue2.jpg (73.8 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg Hickman 1.jpg (75.8 KB, 181 views)
File Type: jpg Hickman 2.jpg (74.9 KB, 175 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:03 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
I have mentioned before I came up just a bit short of finishing the 68 Coupon Type 1 cards after a decade or so of trying, but in my passion for collecting these rare beauties was able to finish a run of the 20 SL players and these 2 cards without a doubt were the two toughest cards for me to find. I have only seen 3 Gordon Hickman cards in my lifetime and only 1 Hub Perdue (pictured). I am hopeful a few more exists so I can lay eyes on them! Love these rare T206's!
There are several Perdue and Hickman T206's on ebay right now.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:57 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
There are several Perdue and Hickman T206's on ebay right now.
Good one, Pat. Very funny. Here's my Hub Perdue. This is what they call a "set filler".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t2131hubperduef508.jpg (72.7 KB, 167 views)
File Type: jpg t2131hubperdueb509.jpg (67.7 KB, 168 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:03 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 8,836
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Good one, Pat. Very funny. Here's my Hub Perdue. This is what they call a "set filler".
Nolonger a set filler!!! A highlight of someones back run/ collection these days!!
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:34 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Good one, Pat. Very funny. Here's my Hub Perdue. This is what they call a "set filler".
Looks fine to me Rob, well loved with no paper loss.
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:53 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 984
Default

if i needed that one for a set, i'd happily include it
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:24 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default Perdue

Rob - Of course, I knew you had a Hub! Only the 2nd Hub I have ever seen... Thank you for sharing! One heck of a filler...
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:25 AM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,260
Default

Congrats on the SL subset, Jer, I knew you could do it! Here are the most difficult cards in this set according to the combined sgc and psa pop reports

LaPorte 0
Hoffman 1
McIntyre 2
Hickman 2
perdue 2
rossman 2
schmidt 2
molesworth 2
rhoades 2
greminger 2
willett 2
smith 2
charles 3
cree 3
most Cobb 12
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t213-1laporte004.jpg (51.3 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1hoffman005.jpg (48.6 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1charles006.jpg (55.1 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1laporteb008.jpg (51.5 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1hoffmanb009.jpg (55.1 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1charlesb010.jpg (52.3 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1geminger007.jpg (53.5 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg t213-1gremingerb011.jpg (51.3 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg t213hickman668.jpg (66.1 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg t213hickmanb669.jpg (70.2 KB, 130 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:04 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,518
Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Congrats on the SL subset, Jer, I knew you could do it! Here are the most difficult cards in this set according to the combined sgc and psa pop reports

LaPorte 0
Hoffman 1
McIntyre 2
Hickman 2
perdue 2
rossman 2
schmidt 2
molesworth 2
rhoades 2
greminger 2
willett 2
smith 2
charles 3
cree 3
most Cobb 12

Hi Rob

Thanks for posting that "scarcity" list. It's nice to know that my 1910 COUPON collection includes 3 of the toughest subjects (according to the pop reports).
Which reminds me, I most likely will have Rossman and Willett graded, eventually.


.




.











TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:57 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Ted, What's the transfer on your Rossman coupon? I think it might be an
EPDG transfer.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:40 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,761
Default Cobb coupon

Rob - Great pics, and scarcity list! Does anyone know of any ungraded Cobb Coupon cards in the Universe? I don't, except for the one that was in that completed set done many years ago, which I believe now has been broken up and sold in pieces if memory serves...

The Cobb count could be representative of the max amount of Coupon's per player and the Cobb possibly, has a few that have been double graded/crossed over, etc. - My assumption would be there are 8-15 Coupon Cobb's including all graded/raw examples. You have to figure there are more Cobb's than other common players, so when I think of the definition of rare, I would say 8-15 examples is right in the sweet spot. I figure the average number of Coupons for most players is around 4-8.... What event happened to make these so limited? Break up of ATC, stop production? (May-1911). Hurricane of 1915?? It appears Coupons and Red Suns have similar production with Red Suns having a few more examples... Both are rare. Red Suns stopped production of the intended 2nd series at 75 cards. Was this at/around the time Coupon's were just starting production? 1911 ??? So many questions, but I feel like the darts are all around the bulls eye and we just need more time and research to connect the dots... Ramble end.
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:07 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Ted, What's the transfer on your Rossman coupon? I think it might be an
EPDG transfer.
It looks like paper addition on the front but with the smaller scan it's hard to tell it could be paper loss but either way it looks like it was stuck to an EPDG
at some point.

Rossman T213-1 - Copy (2).jpg

Rossman T213-1 - Copy - Copy.jpgEPDG Backs - Copy - Copy.jpg
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting trivia about 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards...show us some of these rare gems tedzan Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 62 03-14-2018 05:01 PM
FYI....1910 COUPON checklist (T213-1) tedzan Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 09-03-2014 10:22 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 AM.


ebay GSB